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10X Caapi Changa question. Is it still 1:1?

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MachineElf88

MachineElf88

Rising Star
Hello everyone, just made my first batch of 10X caapi changa. I normally make my changa 1:1 spice : plant matter ratio.

I used the boiling method on 20g caapi leaf to enhance 2g of plant matter.

After drying the weight of my plant matter is now 7g.

I have my usual 2g of spice. My question is now that my plant matter weighs 7g not 2g is my changa still going to be 1:1? Or would I need 7g of spice to make it 1:1?
 
What you have there is 20 / 7 = ~2.85x caapi, because it's the final weight that matters here (and that's assuming the plant matter used is caapi, otherwise it's still slightly misleading, but measuring any extraction by x never takes into account the alkaloid content of the original material anyway). So yeah, if you're used to 1:1 absolutely do it that way, it will be somewhat nicer than you're used to, but not as nice as a true "10x" extract. I had similar results to yours from boiling down an ounce of caapi (to about 7.5g) - I think if you want a denser extract from this method it would require a lot of cleaning material/sediment out of the tea (ie. filtering) before boiling down and absorbing onto leaf
 
Thanks, so for a true 10x enhancement how much caapi leaf would I need to boil if I'm looking to enhance 2g of plant matter?
 
I suppose you might get a better ratio by doing a larger amount, but essentially you reduced the mass by 75% with the boil-down method, ie. 20g became 5g, put onto 2g of leaf. What you would need to do is reduce the mass retrieved even more, or else doing say 100g of caapi could still net you 25g, which would make it pretty hard to change your ratio much. It seems to me if you want true 10x caapi (or greater) you need to use a more complex method. Personally I've only done full extractions on syrian rue, and have only achieved ~3-4x by boiling down caapi (so I'm no expert on caapi), but there's a lot of info on these forums and others for acid-base or solvent-based harmala extractions

for example: this post
 
MachineElf88 said:
My question is now that my plant matter weighs 7g not 2g is my changa still going to be 1:1? Or would I need 7g of spice to make it 1:1?
Click to expand...

To have 1:1 ratio you have to use 7g of spice for 7g of herbs.
 
What do people normally do when making 1:1 10x changa? Use the same amount of spice as they would for the weight of the plant matter before enhancing or match the new enhanced weight of plant matter with equal amount of spice.

7g spice seems a hell of a lot for such a small amount of plant matter. I know, by weight it's now increased by a lot but just looking at it, it doesn't look like very much. It looks like 2g of plant matter.

I guess as long as I don't go by weight (or if I do, then do the math to work out how much dmt is in it per mg of plant matter) and go by eyeballing and feel instead it doesn't matter.

Ultimately a pinch of the enhanced will contain the same amount of dmt as a pinch of the unenhanced but it will just be heavier.
 
1:1 means exactly that, 1g herb per 1g freebase, and this says nothing about the type of herb used or the harmala concentration in said herb. It seems most people like to do that ratio, but if you're comfortable with smoking larger (read: normal-sized) bowls as I and the people I associate with are, try making a 4:1 batch (again, herb : dmt) and see what you think. I enjoy the ability it gives me to accurately eyeball a dose without the use of a scale, and it's very pleasant with the right herbs and bong

Play around with different mixes, working up the DMT content until you get what you like, it really depends on a lot of personal factors
 
I'm thinking ignore the Bonus weight from the Xenhncement... and keep original weight in mind
7:7 on leaf that's only 2g material would be over powerful (Super xtal covered leafs).. you'd have a hard time dosing such small amounts..

but then again I prefer a pure joint 250mg on 250mg herb
 
yes for it to be 1:1 you just have to match the total herb weight AFTER making the 10x caapi with the total weight of the dmt

so just use 2grams of your 10x caapi and infuse it with 2 grams of dmt. or extract more dmt and use it all. or just do any ratio you want. btw 10x caapi is a nice smoke by itself, and caapi leaf is cheap, so no worries
 
I still think its best to match up with the original leaf weight 8)

soaking a mountain of DMT onto such little leaf material should seem OTT :?
 
Donline said:
I still think its best to match up with the original leaf weight 8)

soaking a mountain of DMT onto such little leaf material should seem OTT :?
Click to expand...

This is my thinking, though I suppose it is a matter of personal preference. I never weigh my changa before smoking, I judge amounts by the volume of plant matter itself. If I put 7g of DMT into 7g (though originally 2g pre-10x'd), then it would be a very very small volume of plant matter to smoke for a single dose.

Some people prefer to smoke more or less plant matter than others. I have been finding that a slightly weaker batch allows for more control over experience intensity, and the beauty of changa includes the ability to 'stack' hits over a longer period of time.

I was thinking of doing the caapi leaf boil reduction method onto a batch of 1:1 leaf/dmt that I have already made, therefore increasing the weight but not the volume. I will be smoking the usual volume (bowl-pack) to get the levels of effect that I like.
 
I believe most caapi leaf changa without any added harmalas to be DMT enhanced leaf, not really changa...
And those 10x caapi leaf are just a scam. It doesn't mean anything, really, as we don't even know what alks are in the leaves, and by boiling down the leaves you can never get to 10x... I never got more than 2.85x that way myself.

Real changa, again this "my" view, is made with extracted freebase harmalas.

For a real Ayahuasca-Changa experience, try this :
- 1g caapi vine finely shredded
- 1g freebase DMT
- 0.5g freebase harmalas
Dissolve in 25ml acetone, stir while blowing on it, wait for any smell of acetone to be gone to smoke.
Put 150mg in a joint with a lttle tobacco and smoke the joint while meditating in the dark with some icaros in the background... You'll feel like in the jungle !
 
Silly(c)One said:
I believe most caapi leaf changa without any added harmalas to be DMT enhanced leaf, not really changa...
Click to expand...

caapi leafs already contain harmalas so it is changa when infused with spice.
 
I propose this for a more truely harmala heavy changa. USe the THP method on ayahuasca vine, say 50-100 grams, which results in a yellow liquid much cleaner than boiling cappi, then evaporate the product onto ayahuasca leaves.

This is just a proposition, i havent tried this technique i just thought of it, any thoughts on that? I also would like to make a true harmala changa, and this thread has raised some legitimate concerns.

I dont think using just 1 gram of vine will have any effects at all, i think we need a real dose of cappi on there...
 
that would work Becometheother, and its similar to how some prepare their leaf already.

but you might want to consider using a method that either extracts a more pure product, or cleaning up your crude extract.

you will end up with a lot of gunk that isn't harmalas.

at the very least i would fine the brew with some egg white.


you probably wouldn't quite need that many grams, but you definitely could do it that way.
 
smokerx said:
Silly(c)One said:
I believe most caapi leaf changa without any added harmalas to be DMT enhanced leaf, not really changa...
Click to expand...

caapi leafs already contain harmalas so it is changa when infused with spice.
Click to expand...
In such minute quantities they are not active.
I did an experiment lately.
I extracted harmalas on 100g ourinhos caapi, brewed in total for more than 15h.
The results were 450mg of harmalas.
If there was enough harmalas in the caapi leaves, why don't the shamans ever use those leaves instead of the vine, which is hard work to break down ?
And even considering there would be as much harmalas in the leaves as there is in the vine, 1g of caapi leaves would give you 4mg of harmalas. Even if you make some 3x caapi leaves, it's still only 12mg harmalas.
Can't potentiate 1g of DMT with 12mg of harmalas now, can you ? ;)
QED.

And BTO, I don't think a THP would be usefull to make changa : far too much useless plant matter before at least 2 A/B cycles.
It wouldn't solve most issues there are about the concentrated caapi leaves.
Also, do you really want to evaporate 15L of water without heat ? ;)
(Now of course you could extract harmalas with vinegar, water and lye after you reduced the THP.)

If you want some real caapi changa, follow my recipe, dude, I'm talking by experience. (and not only mine)
I believe the shredded caapi only gives a bit more ayahuasca spirit, the most important here is to get the ratio of harmalas to DMT significantly higher than usually advised (from 1:4 to 1:2 or even 2:3)
 
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