• Members of the previous forum can retrieve their temporary password here, (login and check your PM).

1lb soaking in 1L vinegar... no lye... will lime/FASW work?

Migrated topic.
lorentz5

lorentz5

Rising Star
Then, upon opening, it was realized that a vendor shipped him the wrong godamn drain cleaner, which contains sodium nitrate and sodium chloride instead of the one he ordered whose MSDS said 100% sodium hydroxide! :x

Now, 1lb bark is soaking in 1L (white distilled) vinegar per BLAB in a gallon jug, but cannot be continued. The concoction is very wet.

Here's what is suggested as a remedy; will this work?

1. add 500-750g calcium hydroxide (until moist, not watery) mix thoroughly for several minutes (adding water if too dry, Ca(OH)2 if too moist)
2. pull 5x with 100ml limo each time (mixing, 12hr soaks) -> FASW

Questions:
1. FASIPA won't work for the pulled limo if lime is used?
2. Is THP worth a try in this scenario (100g loaded each time)?
 
lorentz5 said:
1. add 500-750g calcium hydroxide (until moist, not watery) mix thoroughly for several minutes (adding water if too dry, Ca(OH)2 if too moist)
Click to expand...

As CaOH is not very water soluble at all, I doubt you'd be able to get enough in to get the pH high enough

lorentz5 said:
Questions:
1. FASIPA won't work for the pulled limo if lime is used?
Click to expand...

It will always work with limonene as long as the goods are in there in the first place. You can drytek with lime and then use FASIPA that way.

lorentz5 said:
2. Is THP worth a try in this scenario (100g loaded each time)?
Click to expand...

Maybe,

What I'd do is pour the vinegar/bark mix into a pan and procede to boil and filter like a regular A/B, then base with sodium carbonate which is very easy to get hold of.

You will have to reduce the initial boils down quite a way though, as lot's of sodium carbonate will be required to raise the pH high enough after neutralizing all that vinegar.
 
soulfood said:
Maybe,

What I'd do is pour the vinegar/bark mix into a pan and procede to boil and filter like a regular A/B, then base with sodium carbonate which is very easy to get hold of.

You will have to reduce the initial boils down quite a way though, as lot's of sodium carbonate will be required to raise the pH high enough after neutralizing all that vinegar.
Click to expand...

SWIM has tried this several times with ABSOLUTELY ZERO yield. Even when copious amounts were used, drytek or wet, nothing.
Sodium carbonate works very well on DMT-fumurate but very poorly on the DMT-tannate in the bark.
Appearently sodium carbonate can work with DCM but one would have to think that if sodium carbonate as a base worked well or at all with limonene or naptha then lye teks would logically be stupid choices and there would be tons of pictures of yields and teks based on it like lye and lime...

(Shoot, SWIM started this comment to put his opinion on the quoted advice and inadvertently forgot to read the your suggestion which was very reasonable read the next bit if you wish but it is a little more than needed.)

SWIM's recommendation is to check the liquidyness. If it is left to sit for a while then there should be a relatively clear layer of liquid above the bark at the bottom. If the layer is very small or if the mix is thick enough that it won't settle then doing a limetek should definately work.

You'll need to add a pound or maybe a little less to basify the mix then follow Q21Q21's tek from there.

If it is too liquidy it may need to evaporate. Putting it in a large pan then either letting it evap with a fan or evaporate (not completely) in a 200F oven. That being said 1L of vinegar and 454G bark seems slightly liquidy but will probably work with a pound or so of lime.

Good luck!
 
200g lime was added with a small amount of water and the concoction became fairly moist, to the point where one could make a hole in the middle of the bark by pushing it around with a chopstick. This was mixed for several minutes and 150ml d-limo was added. Upon addition, the concoction instantly turned into nasty liquid shit, and swaying the jug from side to side, only about 30ml or so d-limo was seen clearly on the top (not good). The rest seemed to be absorbed in the diarrhea-looking mimosa sludge. Getting that d-limo is going to be a bitch.

Can more lime be added to make the mixture more solid or does that not make sense at this point?

Thanks for the advice thus far.
 
lorentz5 said:
200g lime was added with a small amount of water and the concoction became fairly moist, to the point where one could make a hole in the middle of the bark by pushing it around with a chopstick. This was mixed for several minutes and 150ml d-limo was added. Upon addition, the concoction instantly turned into nasty liquid shit, and swaying the jug from side to side, only about 30ml or so d-limo was seen clearly on the top (not good). The rest seemed to be absorbed in the diarrhea-looking mimosa sludge. Getting that d-limo is going to be a bitch.

Can more lime be added to make the mixture more solid or does that not make sense at this point?

Thanks for the advice thus far.
Click to expand...

This is not very surprising to SWIM. His tek recommends 1.5-2ml per g of bark for that reason. The bark mush likes to cling onto D-limonene and absorb quite a bit. SWIM is very soon going to get some d-limonene in and that will be on his list of things to try and work out and hopefully solve.

454g of bark absorbing 150-200ml of d-limonene would not be too surprising. Adding a little water may help. While it may theoretically make it harder for the d-limonene to contact the mush if it is somewhat goopy, it may help displace some of the d-limonene. Either way there is a saturation point, the bark won't keep eating and eating the d-limonene

One last thing, 200g of lime seems a little low. One time SWIM added slightly less than half of the weight of the bark and got ZERO yield! After adding more lime he ended up getting a perfectly normal yield though.
 
So you are suggesting the opposite of what I thought i.e. add more water to make more watery instead of add more lime to make less watery, to displace the absorbed d-limo, yes?
 
Well add some more water and lime to make it closer to about 300-350g lime and a similar maybe slightly goopyer consistancy.
The low amount of lime was much more of a concern really.

The addition of water may not really help much, SWIM hasn't tested that variable a lot. Just know that that the bark will absorb quite a bit though not an endless amount but it can be re-used after FASW many many times.
 
soulfood said:
Less pulls and twice the yield of naphtha on occasion.
Click to expand...

I though you only did DCM after naphtha ? You use 100ml per pull and how much pulls ?

soulfood said:
Also with Xylene/Limonene/DCM sodium carbonate works fine.
Click to expand...

Can you share the details of the Xylene/Limonene/DCM sodium carbonate experiments ?
 
200ml were used to pull after letting sit for 2days, only 20ml could be decanted from the jug, the rest is still inside. An extra 150g lime was stirred in; the amount of decantable limo seemed to reduce even further (lime absorbing the limo a little), and another 200ml limonene was added.

Thinking if the same thing happens, water will be added to saturate the limo as suggested, then poured out.

Added 15ml FASIPA slowly to that 20ml, x-tals precipitated, about 100mg from the looks of it. MONSTER YIELD OH YEAH gonna need a shovel to scrape those up
 
Just a thought q21: if what you speculate of a saturation point is true, why not simply add more limonene instead of water? The addition should flush better than water I think. Could that water addition hypothetically mess anything up?

EDIT:

Yield DMT-fumarate from the first "test" pull (with the stuck limonene and half the amount of calcium hydroxide) was ~0.1, yield from second pull was 0.76g for a total so far of

0.865g from 1 pound bark. More lime was added (as seen above), so we'll see how the next couple pulls go.

BTW, FASIPA is amazing. So fast and simple. And the x-tals appear right away! Never gonna evap again. Also, pics will be posted at the end when no more can be pulled :)

Didn't end up adding water to flush out the limonene, but after adding lime, the concoction magically lost its wet quality and the limo was seen floating separately on top. Yay :)
 
Back
Top Bottom