1st time pharmahuasca, any advise welcome

[Harleybo]

Hey gang, I'm strongly considering expanding my experiences with maoi/dmt blends. I've had 7+years experience with various exctractions and vaporization techniques, some experience with changa. I have a fair amount of mimosa and am trying to determine the best possible preparation and use of it. Please indulge me with any and all info that will light my path; what are preferred MAOI sources, should I prepare an extracted maoi, should I use raw mimosa (how much) or freebase/furmate, should I familiarize myself with the effects of maoi before venturing, any advice on set/setting (music, food,drink, ect) should I fast prior? Should i take the Maoi before the mhrb(15/30mins?) Or at the same time. What is a recommended diet for optimal uptake? I guess I'm just trying to determine what is the most effective and efficient use whilts minimalizing nausea and/or general discomfort.
Thank you so much for any guidance!
-much love
Harleybo

 

[TGO]

Hello there!

You pose a lot of good questions, many of which could be considered subjective to different individuals. If you plan to actually take "pharmahuasca" then the extracted forms of MAOI and DMT are necessary. I myself prefer pharma over Ayahuasca mainly because it is easier to ingest. Another member (Jees) and I had discussed pre-dosing some harmalas before ingesting your full dose of MAOI and then DMT. Ever since that discussion it has been my favorite way to take pharmahuasca. You can read about my trip report using this method here if you are interested.

As for becoming familiar with the MAOI and fasting, I say yes to both. It is good to see how the MAOI will affect you before jumping in headfirst to the experience and fasting will ensure a better trip all around. There should be less discomfort in the digestive tract if there is nothing in there to disturb the medicine, IMO.

As for taking them together or at the same time, that is still up in the air for most people...your best bet is to try both ways and see what works the best for you. With the pre-dosing method I took my first dose of MAOI, then waited about an hour or so, took the other "full" MAOI dose, waited about 15 minutes and then took the DMT. Of course, that is just me. All experiences, including yours, can vary significantly depending on many factors.

Set and setting are the most important things to consider before making this plunge. I typically go into it with no music, which is weird for me because I am a musician but sometimes I find it a bit distracting with any form of DMT (I did have a few good vaped experiences with some classical music but that is a different story altogether). I recommend low lights or candles and to be somewhere very comfortable where you can lay down and stretch out. Lots of blankets and pillows for comfort.

I prefer to extract my harmalas from sryian rue. It is cheap and plentiful, not to mention the extraction process for it is incredibly simple, although a bit time consuming.

I can't say much about diet though. I usually just eat a very light meal at least 6-8 hours before journeying. Or sometimes I fast the whole day and throughout the experience and will eat on the come down or after baseline has been reached. I would stay away from fatty foods if possible to minimize discomfort.

Anyway, these are just some ideas. The best way to find out what works for you is to jump in and test the different waters. Good luck with whatever you decide to do!

PEACE

 

[concombres]

GratefulOne explained it pretty well.

Experimenting with harmalas on their own to see how different foods effect absorption rates is a must.

Good example - I try to avoid breads of heavy meats a day or so before dosing. They seem to be harder to digest & sit in the gut for a while & the harmalas seem to be weaker but more drawn out.
If you can get fresh fish (nothing smoked or pickled) & veggies I reccommend eating a couple baked cod fillets with lemon & a small bowl of salad 6-8hrs before hand. You can feel when your stomache is empty & its time to dose IMO but waiting a minimum of 6 hrs ensures adequate digestion so you get the most out of your harmalas.

 

[Jees]

Good points there already.

... You can feel when your stomache is empty & its time to dose IMO but waiting a minimum of 6 hrs ensures adequate digestion so you get the most out of your harmalas.

In the waiting time I'd love to drink tea a lot, (dried) lemon balm leafs + some peppermint tea and sometimes some chamomile. But I think any tea works. This flushes food rests out of the tract and make me pee a lot :lol:

For pharma I usually take the re-X wax which is equally potent.
In a small cup I drop like 3 - 5 ml pure citron or lemon juice (those little bottles are fine), drop the wax in the juice, swirl softly continuously and within 5 minutes it has dissolved completely, no heat needed. It salts the freebase --> better digestion.
Then I add some apple or orange juice like 50 ml + drop the rueHCL in.

Harmalas: 100mg rue HCL as predose then 1.5 hours later [150 rueHCl + the spice]. I'm 70 kg.
# Spice: depends on personal mood and target of the session, ranges from 35 to 100 mg. But this is sooo dependant on your specifics that you must find out your own works. This actually goes for harmalas too.

You can opt for crude tea from rue and bark, this might even add to the experience, but much more unsettling and there's chance for an acute premature vomit losing most actives.
I know those tannin and stuff are healthy, the puke too, but I would use it only for that reason. To pin point an experience the extracts work better.

Since I use ginger tabs together with the dose, nausea is reduced to nearly gone, you always have a burdened phase though. In the deep when an energetically puke calls for, the finger works wonders for purging. Usually there's a handful of slime containing the energetic load to expel.

 

[anon_003]

I think an important point, made by others, is that individual sensitivity to the harmalas and dmt freebase can vary pretty considerably person to person. If you have adequate material, I would very definitely suggest to work your way up to see what is comfortable. Sometimes pharma and aya experiences can be totally overwhelming if you dose too high on either and you may not be able to get as much from it as you would like... in addition to VAST discomfort.

With that being said, it depends what you are looking for in the experience. Heavier harmala doses have always felt to me more "cleansing" and "productive", while heavier on the dmt side tend to be more visionary and otherworldy. I like to take purified extracts of both, in my personal opinion. I like to dose harmalas about 30 mins before taking the dmt. I really prefer isolated harmine hcl over rue or rue extract.

I would like to briefly add that the harmala purge can be a beautiful part of the experience, willed or not. This is something you might really learn to love and appreciate. Although things like whole ginger root can really help mitigate 5ht-3 induced nausea, as Jees helpfully pointed out, really I feel purging is integral to a wholesome aya/pharma experience (MY COMPLETELY SUBJECTIVE OPINION). It has a fantastic way of snapping you into the realization of your own imminent mortality and how you are treating your own vessel of life (which IME is incredibly important). I have purged out sickly matter that was almost definitely not in my stomach recently that seemed very toxic. The cleansed feeling afterwards is worth every instant of discomfort. YMMV.

As far as diet goes, I really think it is important to eat, sleep and exercise well at least a few days before an aya experience. From what I understand, since harmalas are reverisble MAOI-B inhibitors, the tyramine diet restrictions may be a tad dramatic or over-cautious. Still, I would wager that they are something to keep in mind to minimize unneccesary sickness. As others have said, fasting for at least 4-6 hours or so after a very light meal is a fantastic idea. I recall one experience where I had been drinking alcohol regularly, smoking cigarettes and eating like crap on a consistent basis for weeks before a rather moderate pharma experience and the uncomfort was positively unbearable. It felt like being hungover X having the flu X you are the most decrepid loser to walk the face of the earth X you are rotting from the inside out. 1/10 would not recommend.

Orange juice, like others have said, is a great way to minimize stomach pain/discomfort/nausea, and taste. Yeah, some people might advise to "man up" with the taste but I find this advice sexist and ultimately pretty unnecessary.

I think sticking to a diet rich in fruits and vegetables, as well as whole grain, minimal sodium, no caffeine, minimal red meat, AND DEFINITELY NO INERACTING DRUGS, is a great way to go. AT LEAST for a few days prior. For the interacting drugs, it should be very common knowledge that these are a no-no for at least several days prior and at least several days after taking harmalas. This is no joke. This has been said all over the place but I think that you can never reduce harm enough.

Aya, in any form, rewards discipline, ime. You get out what you put in.

Don't forget about intention. Sometimes not having intention can work out splendidly, sometimes it won't. But aya/pharma are one of the last things I would use for recreational purposes (not implying in any way that you are, just a note for potential newcomers). I like to consult the oracle most when I am ready for some tough love, or at least brutally honest guidance.

Just be prepared for a truly humbling experience.

Best wishes and regards,

SR

 

[○]

All great advice. I don't really have anything to add there.

But experience wise, for me personally, pharma and teas are very different experiences. Pharma for me was always much less of a boot to the face, easier to handle in alot of ways, and supremely beautiful, if the dose is sufficient and set and setting are conducive.

Teas have always been much more thorough, as in the flow the experience takes tends to really sink it's claws in and dig deep, hitting levels within myself that pharma has always seemed to skim (even the earth shattering dosages of pharma). Emotionally and physically, teas have always strung the deeper chords, ime.

They're all very unique - caapi/mhrb, rue/mhrb, caapi/chacruna, caapi/chali, rue/chali, rue/chacruna, rue freebase/dmt freebase, caapi freebase/dmt freebase. There's so many admixtures/combinations. They all offer ime unique spectrums of the Indivisible Mystery of Being. All relatively unique.

 

[Harleybo]

Thank you all so much for the replies, there's a lot of good information here, I really appreciate the guidance from experienced ones =]
Just have a few more questions, I'm on mobile so I can't quote, but; SR, when you said "DEFINITELY NO INERACTING DRUGS, is a great way to go. AT LEAST for a few days prior. For the interacting drugs, it should be very common knowledge that these are a no-no for at least several days prior and after."
What types of drugs are you referring to? And why is this? Is MJ ok?
And jees, "For pharma I usually take the re-X wax which is equally potent.
Harmalas: 100mg rue HCL as predose then 1.5 hours later [150 rueHCl + the spice]. I'm 70 kg."
I'm curious what u mean by re x, is it just rly pure that you use, or the leftover gunk after a re x? And the harmalas, you take a total of 250mg hcl spread over an hour and a half, after the second "full" dose do u immediately take The dmt, or wait another 15-30 mins?
The grateful one, "As for becoming familiar with the MAOI and fasting, I say yes to both." thanks for the tips, by the sounds of your report, you certainly know what you're doing! (~);}
Tattvamasi, When you say "teas" you mean aya blends I assume, I'm very interested in learning more about proper preparation and administration methods with this as I am nearly out of exctraction material I.e. Caustic soda, also bc is sounds more natural and more profound.
for the past several years I've done maybe 2-3 extractions per year, only when I feel the time is right or that I feel I need to be humbled, enlightened. I use dmt to cleans my soul, it's the most humbling experience I have ever felt, and I really want to know more about what mother aya has to show us. This is a spiritual tool. Dmt, I believe, regulates our perception of reality.
Again, thank you all so much for all the advice and information! I'm so blessed to have a community in which I can ask these types of questions without scrutiny! You're all wonderful!!

 

[Jees]

...
And jees, "For pharma I usually take the re-X wax which is equally potent.
Harmalas: 100mg rue HCL as predose then 1.5 hours later [150 rueHCl + the spice]. I'm 70 kg."
I'm curious what u mean by re x, is it just rly pure that you use, or the leftover gunk after a re x?

Yes the left over gunk from a re x.
Of course any spice works, but I find it a shame not to use the reX left over

And the harmalas, you take a total of 250mg hcl spread over an hour and a half,

Indeed.

after the second "full" dose do u immediately take The dmt, or wait another 15-30 mins?...

The last 150 harmalas go in together with the spice, since there was a pre-dose anyway there is sure no need anymore for another time lapse between H's and the spice

See the red :roll:
This is not "The" way, it's just my way recently, and it could be different soon, or not.
It is "a" way, one of many possible. I'm not timing really for that 1.5 hour but feel when the first 100 mg H's are re-tuning my body into another phase, like a first door has been stepped trough and the transition effects have stabilized. Then I go for the second gear with the 150 H's + spice. After 45 mins the turbo hits

 

[TGO]

Thank you all so much for the replies, there's a lot of good information here, I really appreciate the guidance from experienced ones =]

...Is MJ okay?

...

The grateful one, "As for becoming familiar with the MAOI and fasting, I say yes to both." thanks for the tips, by the sounds of your report, you certainly know what you're doing! (~);}

That is what we are all here for, to learn, share and expand together! Cannabis is absolutely okay to smoke with/before/during/after your Pharma experience. I prefer to smoke on the comedown or after the peak, but that is just personal preference. I actually enjoy adding freebase harmalas to my cannabis every once in a while. Things to avoid are drugs like SSRIs (typically antidepressants) which are dangerous to take with an MAOI so as long as you are not on any sort of medication you should be fine.

*PLEASE NOTE: I am not a doctor, if you are on any sort of medication it is wise to consult a physician before mixing any sort of medications with an MAOI or RIMA.*

To be fair, I've only ventured into pharmahuasca territory a handful of times. However, I have learned quite a bit about different techniques and am always glad to share any knowledge. I am much more experienced in the realm of changa! :d

Lastly, as Jees pointed out, there really isn't an "Ultimate Technique" or anything like that, it is more about trial and error and experimentation. In time, and with practice, you will find your "sweet" spot!

 

[Trickster]

I think an important point, made by others, is that individual sensitivity to the harmalas and dmt freebase can vary pretty considerably person to person. If you have adequate material, I would very definitely suggest to work your way up to see what is comfortable. Sometimes pharma and aya experiences can be totally overwhelming if you dose too high on either and you may not be able to get as much from it as you would like... in addition to VAST discomfort.

I would like to stress the importance of this advice. Proper personally adjusted dosage is especially important for harmalas. Many times I have been through hours of hell because of harmalas overdose. IME, once the nausea sets in adding DMT only increases it. So at some point I decided to do a series of experiments to determine my personal sweet spot. I used pure harmine/harmaline SR extract and took from 50 mg to 520 mg (very foolish and not recommended). It appears that depending on many factors(some of which are unknown) even my personal dose varies substantially (100 - 170 mg).

All things considered, there is another important unaccountable factor - the current state of your gastro-intestinal tract. Several times I've taken serious doses of harmalas and DMT with almost no effect. Once I took 250 mg of harmalas and 220 mg of DMT with very little effect. After about 2 hours of mild euphoria and some CEVs I thought that this is it and decided to go for a walk. Then I drank a glass of sparkling mineral water. In a few minutes I felt a little queasy. Soon I had a monumental hellishly difficult ride. So, it seems that alkaloids can get stuck in the liver and do not go to the bloodstream. Other people reported similar experiences after eating small amounts of fatty food.

 

[Sherlockian_Holmes]

All great advice. I don't really have anything to add there.

But experience wise, for me personally, pharma and teas are very different experiences. Pharma for me was always much less of a boot to the face, easier to handle in alot of ways, and supremely beautiful, if the dose is sufficient and set and setting are conducive.

Teas have always been much more thorough, as in the flow the experience takes tends to really sink it's claws in and dig deep, hitting levels within myself that pharma has always seemed to skim (even the earth shattering dosages of pharma). Emotionally and physically, teas have always strung the deeper chords, ime.

They're all very unique - caapi/mhrb, rue/mhrb, caapi/chacruna, caapi/chali, rue/chali, rue/chacruna, rue freebase/dmt freebase, caapi freebase/dmt freebase. There's so many admixtures/combinations. They all offer ime unique spectrums of the Indivisible Mystery of Being. All relatively unique.

What has been your largest dose of DMT in the pharmahuasca?

Thanks in advance.

 

[Sherlockian_Holmes]

All things considered, there is another important unaccountable factor - the current state of your gastro-intestinal tract. Several times I've taken serious doses of harmalas and DMT with almost no effect. Once I took 250 mg of harmalas and 220 mg of DMT with very little effect. After about 2 hours of mild euphoria and some CEVs I thought that this is it and decided to go for a walk. Then I drank a glass of sparkling mineral water. In a few minutes I felt a little queasy. Soon I had a monumental hellishly difficult ride. So, it seems that alkaloids can get stuck in the liver and do not go to the bloodstream. Other people reported similar experiences after eating small amounts of fatty food.

Can you elaborate on that experience? 220mg is a rather good large dose.

 

[Trickster]

Can you elaborate on that experience? 220mg is a rather good large dose.

Due to harmalas overdose the nausea was unbearable. The OEVs were the same as CEV. At the peak I was utterly convinced that I've gone mad and will never get back to normal. But at some point I caught myself planning my life as a lunatic so I understood that I am not crazy. Then came utter amazement about intricacies of human mind. Overall, because of overdose substantial part of the trip did not register in my mind.