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So you say maybe a heat dry would be mandatory, but just from the appereance your crystals look pretty cool? So I would assume when extracting from a wild mix like in any plant matter and actually getting something which is as crystalline (and light coloured) as yours it looks already pretty great. So even based on your results, maybe all that additional dry etc. is not mandatory?

Maybe if you could do a TLC it might be interesting to see if it only shows 2 spots (Methanol + 1 % NH3 = Bufo roughly in the middle and Benzoic Acid running totally on top). Of course it could still contain some Terpenes and similar, but those should pretty surely be cut off when doing the salting. So if truly only Alkaloids were extracted, you could only have a DMT/5-Meo-"Contamination".

About the Sodium Carbonate and neutral Bufo:

So it indeed dissolves perfect in Aceton, but if you wonder because it should be actually Bufotenate/DMT-O(-):

Indeed from pKs it looks like Na2CO3 would also react with the phenolic R-OH, but it seems in reality it does not happen ... that is why Na2CO3 seems to be the base to go to freebase Bufotenin. Everything with Hydroxide definetly produces Bufotenate. But Carbonate seems ... still not strong enough?
You can easily still dissolve whatever comes out from reacting a Bufo Salt with Na2CO3 in suitable NPS. So I simply assume that either there is no reaction of CO3(2-) and Bufo-OH or it is negligible.

OR last option it reacts with partial Bufo molecules, rendering only some insoluble. But then the yield could be actually even higher, if some Bufo might get lost there.

Sadly there is no inorganic base exactly between NaHCO3 and Na2CO3 that came to my mind, but at least with Na2CO3 you can freebase, while also extracting the product into Aceton.

I dont remember what I tried, but Ott's values were definetly not really psychoactive, a true "trip" would need more from my experience ... But not sure if ingesting as salt vs. freebase makes any difference here. Worst case you could store it as the Bufo-Benzoate and then upon need just quickly transform with a tiny amount of Ca(OH)2. Would be still much more relaxed to ingest than full seed powder.

I wonder what would happen if you put into Freezer - Aceton cannot freeze (also you already removed all the water), so would be good to know if even more precipitates. Would otherwise be a pity to loose some goodies unnecessarily. That might be interesting, because _Trip_'s TEK is sparing out the nasty Xylene boil and goes directly into the favorable product, so it would be the preferred way to go for Bufo in general.

Cool finding, I thought Phalaris was mostly too difficoult to get crystallization happening. Oxalic acid seems to be indeed a good candidate, but what sets it apart from Fumaric Acid is that too much of this would be maybe not favorable, due to the kidney-stone formation over time Principally could be indeed used to crystallize Bufo here, but then I would not know why not to directly use Fumaric Acid or (in this special case) even Benzoic Acid from Aceton.

Normally Benzoic Acid dissolves so well in Aceton on its own, that any Alkaloid-Benzoate will not precipitate, but Bufotenin seems already so Polar on its own, that then after salt formation Aceton cant even handle it anymore.

Oxalic Acid on its own already has only a mediocre solubility in water, so I would maybe not be too astonished to see the Tryptamines only moderately dissolve. Could be a reason to go back to Fumarate, but of course not if Oxalates are better at generally remove the Alkaloids from the Phalaris Mix.

Same interesting story with the Kidney Stones upon eating too much Oxalic Acid:

Kidney Stone = Calcium Oxalate

Oxalic Acid = low-solubility Acid
Calcium(2+) = low-solubility Kation

On the other hand this unusual property of Calcium helps a lot in CIELO TEK, as the low solubility of Ca(OH)2 is the reason that we get the grainy consistency of the Paste, that can easily be stirred and decanted, while any high-solubility Base (NaOH, Na2CO3) would produce a sticky goo. So even low solubility might be helpful in certain scenarios.

<blockquote data-quote="Brennendes Wasser" data-source="post: 3865192" data-attributes="member: 36938">So you say maybe a heat dry would be mandatory, but just from the appereance your crystals look pretty cool? So I would assume when extracting from a wild mix like in any plant matter and actually getting something which is as crystalline (and light coloured) as yours it looks already pretty great. So even based on your results, maybe all that additional dry etc. is not mandatory? <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite8" alt=":D" title="Big grin&nbsp; &nbsp; :D" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":D" />Maybe if you could do a TLC it might be interesting to see if it only shows 2 spots (Methanol + 1 % NH3 = Bufo roughly in the middle and Benzoic Acid running totally on top). Of course it could still contain some Terpenes and similar, but those should pretty surely be cut off when doing the salting. So if truly only Alkaloids were extracted, you could only have a DMT/5-Meo-&quot;Contamination&quot;.About the Sodium Carbonate and neutral Bufo:So it indeed dissolves perfect in Aceton, but if you wonder because it should be actually Bufotenate/DMT-O(-):Indeed from pKs it looks like Na2CO3 would also react with the phenolic R-OH, but it seems in reality it does not happen ... that is why Na2CO3 seems to be the base to go to freebase Bufotenin. Everything with Hydroxide definetly produces Bufotenate. But Carbonate seems ... still not strong enough?You can easily still dissolve whatever comes out from reacting a Bufo Salt with Na2CO3 in suitable NPS. So I simply assume that either there is no reaction of CO3(2-) and Bufo-OH or it is negligible. OR last option it reacts with partial Bufo molecules, rendering only some insoluble. But then the yield could be actually even higher, if some Bufo might get lost there.Sadly there is no inorganic base exactly between NaHCO3 and Na2CO3 that came to my mind, but at least with Na2CO3 you can freebase, while also extracting the product into Aceton.I dont remember what I tried, but Ott&#039;s values were definetly not really psychoactive, a true &quot;trip&quot; would need more from my experience ... But not sure if ingesting as salt vs. freebase makes any difference here. Worst case you could store it as the Bufo-Benzoate and then upon need just quickly transform with a tiny amount of Ca(OH)2. Would be still much more relaxed to ingest than full seed powder.I wonder what would happen if you put into Freezer - Aceton cannot freeze (also you already removed all the water), so would be good to know if even more precipitates. Would otherwise be a pity to loose some goodies unnecessarily. That might be interesting, because _Trip_&#039;s TEK is sparing out the nasty Xylene boil and goes directly into the favorable product, so it would be the preferred way to go for Bufo in general.Cool finding, I thought Phalaris was mostly too difficoult to get crystallization happening. Oxalic acid seems to be indeed a good candidate, but what sets it apart from Fumaric Acid is that too much of this would be maybe not favorable, due to the kidney-stone formation over time <img class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" alt="😁" title="Beaming face with smiling eyes&nbsp; &nbsp; :grin:" src="/styles/default/xenforo/smilies/nexus/unicode/64/1f601.png" data-shortname=":grin:" /> Principally could be indeed used to crystallize Bufo here, but then I would not know why not to directly use Fumaric Acid or (in this special case) even Benzoic Acid from Aceton.Normally Benzoic Acid dissolves so well in Aceton on its own, that any Alkaloid-Benzoate will not precipitate, but Bufotenin seems already so Polar on its own, that then after salt formation Aceton cant even handle it anymore.Oxalic Acid on its own already has only a mediocre solubility in water, so I would maybe not be too astonished to see the Tryptamines only moderately dissolve. Could be a reason to go back to Fumarate, but of course not if Oxalates are better at generally remove the Alkaloids from the Phalaris Mix.Same interesting story with the Kidney Stones upon eating too much Oxalic Acid:Kidney Stone = Calcium OxalateOxalic Acid = low-solubility AcidCalcium(2+) = low-solubility KationOn the other hand this unusual property of Calcium helps a lot in CIELO TEK, as the low solubility of Ca(OH)2 is the reason that we get the grainy consistency of the Paste, that can easily be stirred and decanted, while any high-solubility Base (NaOH, Na2CO3) would produce a sticky goo. So even low solubility might be helpful in certain scenarios.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Brennendes Wasser, post: 3865192, member: 36938"] So you say maybe a heat dry would be mandatory, but just from the appereance your crystals look pretty cool? So I would assume when extracting from a wild mix like in any plant matter and actually getting something which is as crystalline (and light coloured) as yours it looks already pretty great. So even based on your results, maybe all that additional dry etc. is not mandatory? :D Maybe if you could do a TLC it might be interesting to see if it only shows 2 spots (Methanol + 1 % NH3 = Bufo roughly in the middle and Benzoic Acid running totally on top). Of course it could still contain some Terpenes and similar, but those should pretty surely be cut off when doing the salting. So if truly only Alkaloids were extracted, you could only have a DMT/5-Meo-"Contamination". About the Sodium Carbonate and neutral Bufo: So it indeed dissolves perfect in Aceton, but if you wonder because it should be actually Bufotenate/DMT-O(-): Indeed from pKs it looks like Na2CO3 would also react with the phenolic R-OH, but it seems in reality it does not happen ... that is why Na2CO3 seems to be the base to go to freebase Bufotenin. Everything with Hydroxide definetly produces Bufotenate. But Carbonate seems ... still not strong enough? You can easily still dissolve whatever comes out from reacting a Bufo Salt with Na2CO3 in suitable NPS. So I simply assume that either there is no reaction of CO3(2-) and Bufo-OH or it is negligible. OR last option it reacts with partial Bufo molecules, rendering only some insoluble. But then the yield could be actually even higher, if some Bufo might get lost there. Sadly there is no inorganic base exactly between NaHCO3 and Na2CO3 that came to my mind, but at least with Na2CO3 you can freebase, while also extracting the product into Aceton. I dont remember what I tried, but Ott's values were definetly not really psychoactive, a true "trip" would need more from my experience ... But not sure if ingesting as salt vs. freebase makes any difference here. Worst case you could store it as the Bufo-Benzoate and then upon need just quickly transform with a tiny amount of Ca(OH)2. Would be still much more relaxed to ingest than full seed powder. I wonder what would happen if you put into Freezer - Aceton cannot freeze (also you already removed all the water), so would be good to know if even more precipitates. Would otherwise be a pity to loose some goodies unnecessarily. That might be interesting, because _Trip_'s TEK is sparing out the nasty Xylene boil and goes directly into the favorable product, so it would be the preferred way to go for Bufo in general. Cool finding, I thought Phalaris was mostly too difficoult to get crystallization happening. Oxalic acid seems to be indeed a good candidate, but what sets it apart from Fumaric Acid is that too much of this would be maybe not favorable, due to the kidney-stone formation over time 😁 Principally could be indeed used to crystallize Bufo here, but then I would not know why not to directly use Fumaric Acid or (in this special case) even Benzoic Acid from Aceton. Normally Benzoic Acid dissolves so well in Aceton on its own, that any Alkaloid-Benzoate will not precipitate, but Bufotenin seems already so Polar on its own, that then after salt formation Aceton cant even handle it anymore. Oxalic Acid on its own already has only a mediocre solubility in water, so I would maybe not be too astonished to see the Tryptamines only moderately dissolve. Could be a reason to go back to Fumarate, but of course not if Oxalates are better at generally remove the Alkaloids from the Phalaris Mix. Same interesting story with the Kidney Stones upon eating too much Oxalic Acid: Kidney Stone = Calcium Oxalate Oxalic Acid = low-solubility Acid Calcium(2+) = low-solubility Kation On the other hand this unusual property of Calcium helps a lot in CIELO TEK, as the low solubility of Ca(OH)2 is the reason that we get the grainy consistency of the Paste, that can easily be stirred and decanted, while any high-solubility Base (NaOH, Na2CO3) would produce a sticky goo. So even low solubility might be helpful in certain scenarios. [/QUOTE]