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A call out for trip reports for 5meodmt pharmahausca!

Migrated topic.
Dorge

Dorge

Chen Cho Dorge
OG Pioneer
We are looking for reports of pharmahuasca that included harmalas and 5meodmt. We request your body weight along with the dose swiy took. The results of this survey will Be used in an essay published in a peer reviewed journal to provide a counter arguemet that 5meodmt utilized as an admixture in pharmahuasca is possibly dangerous.
 
Dorge said:
We are looking for reports of pharmahuasca that included harmalas and 5meodmt. We request your body weight along with the dose swiy took. The results of this survey will Be used in an essay published in a peer reviewed journal to provide a counter arguemet that 5meodmt utilized as an admixture in pharmahuasca is possibly dangerous.
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Interesting. What journal?


Here's a 115lb guy who claims to have taken 40mg of 5meo dmt, with 150mg harmaline (!). That's a massive dose of pure 5meo, espcially for such a tiny guy. Probably the largest dose of 5meo I have read about. He reports periods of rapid breathing, but I think that's common with any big dose of ayahuasca. Incredibly, he says he also smoked 20mg of 5meo dmt the next day! Now that is some serious usage.
 
Check pharmepena article and TIHKAL. I would suggest trying to contact some expert such as Nichols or similar to ask their view on it.

Also I think its a bad idea to start writting an article already with the pre-determined conclusion that "5-meo-dmt is safe to consume orally", the conclusion has to come after the data is gathered, not before, otherwise this might just lead into a selective gathering of information to prove your point.

Another idea, go to google scholar and search for "5-meo-dmt intoxication" or similar keywords to see what you can find. I also suggest pming Picatris, he is very knowledgeable on biology/pharmacology and has researched this question for a while, so he should be able to give you heads up on some publications and facts regarding this subject.

Good luck and let us know whatever the results are
 
All I am doing is collecting trip reports. There is still no evidence to support that 5meodmt and harmalas will harm any one. I do feel you lean more Towards the alarmist endless.
The article will be posted in esoteric Pharma and will be based on the results of the survey. I suspect people have been taking 5meodmt with harmalas for a long time.
I'm looking for peoples previous TRs not encouraging new ones. If you have done it let us know.
 
endlessness said:
Check pharmepena article and TIHKAL.
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I've actually spoken with ott on this subject in person. Who preffers 5meodmt with harmalas orally.
 
Dorge said:
I do feel you lean more Towards the alarmist endless.
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I think what he was suggesting is that making a conclusion before collecting and analyzing data can lead to bias, not that he himself believes that a combination of 5-MeO-DMT and an MAOI are dangerous.
 
Dorge said:
We are looking for reports of pharmahuasca that included harmalas and 5meodmt. We request your body weight along with the dose swiy took. The results of this survey will Be used in an essay published in a peer reviewed journal to provide a counter arguemet that 5meodmt utilized as an admixture in pharmahuasca is possibly dangerous.
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Don't take what I'm about to say the wrong way because I think this is a good idea.

But as a scientist I find it strange that you are trying to collect results with the intent to provide a counter argument... You should be collecting the data and then allowing that data to tell you a story. If the data says 5meodmt is dangerous you should report it as such just as you should report it if it's not dangerous. I guess I'm just saying it's not good science to go into an experiment with preconcieved bias....

BTW I hope you are right...and I suspect you probably are!

Cheers
 
endlessness said:
Check pharmepena article and TIHKAL. I would suggest trying to contact some expert such as Nichols or similar to ask their view on it.

Also I think its a bad idea to start writting an article already with the pre-determined conclusion that "5-meo-dmt is safe to consume orally", the conclusion has to come after the data is gathered, not before, otherwise this might just lead into a selective gathering of information to prove your point.

Another idea, go to google scholar and search for "5-meo-dmt intoxication" or similar keywords to see what you can find. I also suggest pming Picatris, he is very knowledgeable on biology/pharmacology and has researched this question for a while, so he should be able to give you heads up on some publications and facts regarding this subject.

Good luck and let us know whatever the results are
Click to expand...

Didn't see endless's post before i posted...but I agree with this totally.
 
Dorge said:
All I am doing is collecting trip reports. There is still no evidence to support that 5meodmt and harmalas will harm any one. I do feel you lean more Towards the alarmist endless.
The article will be posted in esoteric Pharma and will be based on the results of the survey. I suspect people have been taking 5meodmt with harmalas for a long time.
I'm looking for peoples previous TRs not encouraging new ones. If you have done it let us know.
Click to expand...

Collecting trip reports is fine, but are trip reports necessarily the best source of unbiased information, and does it have any validity statistics-wise (considering your plan is analysing if statistics-wise 5-meo-dmt is safe to take orally) ? Maybe problematic trips are less likely to end up being reported in the typical forum/erowid databases? (I dont know, just putting questions out there to think about). Hence why I suggest not only looking for trip reports but also doing a scientific-publications review. (and no I never took 5-meo orally, only epena snuff and smoked 5-meo)

You didnt respond to my other comments, are you considering (or did you already) to search pubmed/google scholar/etc for 5-meo-dmt intoxication/hospitalization/deaths ?

What about pming to Picatris who was also posting in that thread re: 5-meo oral usage, in which he also expressed his concerns ?

When you talked with ott, did the conversation include asking about potential different metabolizers of 5-meo-dmt, that death case and the other reported complication cases?

As for you saying I am alarmist, im sorry I come across as so. I honestly am trying to be reasonable and establish safety guidelines and reliable information through this forum, and this includes questioning the potential problems that certain combinations may lead to, even if the questioning leads to the answers that there is no problem in the end.

I believe in science and truth, and I know it comes out eventually, so I dont think its a bad thing to question and ask for more information if its still unknown, its not like im saying some misinformation or affirming with certainty dangers that I dont know about, is it? The questioning wont affect the effects and dangers, but it can (hopefully) lead to critical thinking, more testing and more generation of knowledge. Please dont feel attacked with my questioning, its nothing personal to you, its just the way I work in life, but I welcome any constructive criticism.
 
Apoc said:
Here's a 115lb guy who claims to have taken 40mg of 5meo dmt, with 150mg harmaline (!). That's a massive dose of pure 5meo, espcially for such a tiny guy. Probably the largest dose of 5meo I have read about. He reports periods of rapid breathing, but I think that's common with any big dose of ayahuasca. Incredibly, he says he also smoked 20mg of 5meo dmt the next day! Now that is some serious usage.
Click to expand...

That's the report that I thought about immediately when reading this thread!
Quote from this:
"It seems that J. somehow slowly regressed into an animal state, becoming hostile and assaultive towards any and all that were out on the deck with him. Girlfriend R., apparently having seen this trip before, fled to the safety of the bungalow bathroom. Meanwhile, B. and N. were sort of restraining J., who was screaming out curses and general abuse to any who came near, while kicking and clawing anyone within reach. And the look on his face was one of absolute savage hatred. "

Hmm, sounds nice...
 
On other forums this is considered hijacking a thread or intentionally derailing a thread. I am requesting TRs. Of coarse I will utilize what ever information that is provided to show what ever the outcome of that collected data supports.
Regardless...
Your responses are derailing the thread and is in bad form.
I for one would like to see how many 5meodmt harmala trip reports there are out.
This post was a request for Peoples pre-existing TRs using 5meodmt and harmalas.
 
tryptographer said:
Apoc said:
Here's a 115lb guy who claims to have taken 40mg of 5meo dmt, with 150mg harmaline (!). That's a massive dose of pure 5meo, espcially for such a tiny guy. Probably the largest dose of 5meo I have read about. He reports periods of rapid breathing, but I think that's common with any big dose of ayahuasca. Incredibly, he says he also smoked 20mg of 5meo dmt the next day! Now that is some serious usage.
Click to expand...

That's the report that I thought about immediately when reading this thread!
Quote from this:
"It seems that J. somehow slowly regressed into an animal state, becoming hostile and assaultive towards any and all that were out on the deck with him. Girlfriend R., apparently having seen this trip before, fled to the safety of the bungalow bathroom. Meanwhile, B. and N. were sort of restraining J., who was screaming out curses and general abuse to any who came near, while kicking and clawing anyone within reach. And the look on his face was one of absolute savage hatred. "

Hmm, sounds nice...
Click to expand...

Ive seen that occur in regular traditional ayahuasca ceremonies.
 
Dorge said:
On other forums this is considered hijacking a thread or intentionally derailing a thread. I am requesting TRs. Of coarse I will utilize what ever information that is provided to show what ever the outcome of that collected data supports.
Regardless...
Your responses are derailing the thread and is in bad form.
I for one would like to see how many 5meodmt harmala trip reports there are out.
This post was a request for Peoples pre-existing TRs using 5meodmt and harmalas.
Click to expand...

Of course I don't know how your essay to be will look like, but if you set the same preposition in your essay as you stated in the OP then you are performing bad science. Biased essay's will not do any good for the cause of entheogens and can even be used as a counterargument.

If I would be a peer reviewer of your essay then I would for sure raise the same concerns and questions as endlessness and joedirt did and your article would not pass. Try to think about that, science doesn't take sides. To me it seems you take the critique a bit too personal while in reality it's there to help you.


Kind regards,

The Traveler
 
Dorge said:
Sounded like a non- lethal trip...
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I hope I wouldn't be posting in this board if it happened ;p

Seriously from my understanding (or is it paranoia ?)
Some drugs/ chemical combos or coumpound can be lethal depending or a person's metabolism in general and at instant T.

Some combination tested have been very hazarious and if this one didn't felt like, this is to take with a grain of salt.
Again we'll go about whether or not 5meO dmt is occuring in chaliponga..
But also brugmansia is know to be deadly and is still used at some amounts in brew and other decocotion.
It can be safe or deadly like pretty much anything. This reminds me how I have never have nausea with amanita pantherina or muscaria while other have always..
Still easier to overdose on tropane than water ...

Just play it safe anyone.
 
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