A. Pycnantha Experiment

[Blackout]

For a bit of fun SWIM decided to A/B test on A. Pycnantha. No defatting was done in this process. The pictures are attached are in no particular order. A description of each is listed below:


-All the evap. processes were stored in a container then dissolved into shellite and then another evap. process was done. The image with the blue background shows the result.

-A close up image of the white oily substance.

-A scraping of the white oil substance which goes brown when scraped.

The scrapings was redissolved into a shot glass with warm hexane. Initially the goo dissolved but after a few minutes sinks to the bottom. The oil soaked hexane was discarded and the remains was tipped into a dish. More hexane was added and the oils somewhat separated and caused the remains to clump together. The other razor blade shows the final result.




Any ideas what the white oily substance is? It doesn't look crystalline like many other evap. photos on this website.

Please comment on any of the photos. Thanks.

 

[endlessness]

Unfortunately our eyes are no mass spectrometers, so we cannot say what is in the pic. Here`s a thread that might be of interest.

IMPORTANT: spice color purity fallacy AKA is your dmt ok to smoke ? - DMT Discussion - Welcome to the DMT-Nexus

I would take what the thread says in account, as well as look at any previous analysis and extractions people have done on same species (the acacia information thread sticky in the collaborative research subforum is the place to look), and see if you have more clues on what substances could be there.

Then I`d look into at least getting ehrlich and marquis to do a color reagent test, and if it goes positive for tryptamines and reactions aren`t weird, and if you decide to try it, smoke very small amounts first and raise slowly. Also hopefully in the near future the TLC analysis kits will be available for people with cases such as yours, we`ll keep everybody informed.

 

[DreaMTripper]

Looks promising whatever it is but then there are so many red herrings in the acacia quest.
However there has been at least one positive result from pycnantha so it its worthy of researching and will be interesting what you experience as that extract at least looks nice and clean.

Which state of Aus are you in?
ClubX sell ez-test kits by the way.

 

[Blackout]

However there has been at least one positive result from pycnantha so it its worthy of researching and will be interesting what you experience as that extract at least looks nice and clean.

Which state of Aus are you in?
ClubX sell ez-test kits by the way.

Can you provide me with a link to the positive result? There doesn't seem to be much info on pycnantha.

Thanks for the encouragement, next time a defatting process will be done. Hopefully we will see better results.

 

[Blackout]

Unfortunately our eyes are no mass spectrometers, so we cannot say what is in the pic.

Thanks for the advice endlessness,

Although it can't be said what is in the evap result does the white substance indicate something else from plant oils? Or is it something simple as waxes?

 

[DreaMTripper]

There is no link i'm afraid its the word of nen who has studied acacia for many years. Check this thread (among others) for a load of information Acacia Extraction Workspace - A/B - Welcome to the DMT-Nexus
With acacias it appears it is more complex than de-fatting whats needed is more like de-gumming,isolating the alkaloids from the resins/waxes and gums using pH to put them in their least obstructive state but not actually extracting them.
Check the first post by nen in that thread quoting JG92 and also post #6 by seldom. Interesting stuff.

 

[nen888]

..like endlessness says a reagent kit would determine what the substance(s) is..
(tryptamines also have a distinctive smell)
as DreaMTripper says, i have seen an internal university finding of DMT from bark in the 90s,
but more concretely, the very reliable S. Voogelbreinder (in Garden Of Eden 2009) reported obtaining small amounts of DMT from the phyllodes of A. pycnantha..
.

 

[DreaMTripper]

Unfortunately our eyes are no mass spectrometers, so we cannot say what is in the pic.

Thanks for the advice endlessness,

Although it can't be said what is in the evap result does the white substance indicate something else from plant oils? Or is it something simple as waxes?

Did you bioassay?

 

[Blackout]

Unfortunately our eyes are no mass spectrometers, so we cannot say what is in the pic.

Thanks for the advice endlessness,

Although it can't be said what is in the evap result does the white substance indicate something else from plant oils? Or is it something simple as waxes?

Did you bioassay?

Well this is a bit of a late reply but i've been caught up with Christmas and other such festive things. As requested I have done bioassay to shed some light on my experiences.

Where should it be posted? I see there is an experiences section under profiles.

 

[DreaMTripper]

Hey yeah in 'dmt experiences' or ' first time in hyperspace' or you could post it in this thread seeing as its relevant to this particular plant. Very interested to see how it went!
Whats that blade you have there? Looks a good one.

 

[Blackout]

Hey yeah in 'dmt experiences' or ' first time in hyperspace' or you could post it in this thread seeing as its relevant to this particular plant. Very interested to see how it went!
Whats that blade you have there? Looks a good one.

Nothing special just a standard scraper blade from the hardware store. :lol:

 

[DreaMTripper]

lol ,its just that mine seems to rust even being a stanley stainless steel..Cheap crap haha

So come on man dont keep us hanging was your extract 'active'?

 

[Blackout]

I thought I might go into more detail about experimentation I started a few months back. I have to admit I don't have much experience in extractions so if read something a bit odd please point it out.

All the experimentation was done with a standard A/B extraction. Freeze precipitation was attempted with minimal results. This was after doing a per-evaporation. From then on I decided to stick with full evaporation.

When evaporating the bulk of the liquid it would smell of shellite (as you would expect) but when the last 2% was evaporated it would have a sweet plastic smell to it. I believe this is a good sign, correct me if I'm wrong. If this was done indoors the smell would be quite strong. I tested this against clean shellite and this smell is not present.

What I found from the evaporations was a range of results from white paste to a mix of this and green oily substances. If the white substance was scraped up with would change into a variation of green to brown goo like the picture in the original post.

From experimentation I found that I could wash the oily substance with hexane this would cause the green oils to dissolve very easily. This would cause the white substance to clump together and settle to the bottom. Many times there was no result at first and as the hexane evaporated white flakes would appear and grow. Carefully the hexane was separated from the white substance and was allowed to dry. This is what was tested as described below.

The white substance dried to a hard paste and crumbled when scraped. It has a pleasant smell to it like a floral smell. I thought it smelled a bit orangy but it was hard to tell.

As a crude test to see how volatile it was it was smeared onto a thin piece of metal so it could be heated from below. Using a lighter I found that it evaporated very easily producing white smoke. I didn't particularly like the smell, it was a cross between candle wax and when I electrical motor burns out.

From sampling a very small amount i noticed some mild changes in my perception. The changes I noticed came on quite fast. The room I was in seemed a bit odd but i couldn't put my finger on it. I felt a mild energetic feeling through me with this strange tingling sensation. These noticeable effects were over within 5 minutes. I was left with a mild euphoric feeling for about 1/2 hour after but I don't know if this was the substance or just my excitement.

I feel that i need to retest this to see if the effects are repeatable. The downside is I don't have anything left to test. Hopefully in the next few months I might get time to do some more testing.

 

[DreaMTripper]

Nice report thanks for the update! An encouraging result even without an initial clean-up

 

[DreaMTripper]

Ive seen a clean translucent oil extracted recently but all bioassay tests so far have concluded it inactive.
However with no scales its hard to judge how much is 15mg for the next test.

 

[nen888]

..thank you for the report Blackout...very interesting..

at subthreshold levels it can be hard to judge the nature of effects, but it sounds like there is something going on there..also, sounds the crude extract could be cleaned up a bit..smoking is a relatively safe way to assess these things..the previous finding of small amounts dmt in pycnantha phyllode by S. Voogelbreinder , and internal uni result i mentioned, at least means there is a precedent for tryptamines in the species..

 

[DreaMTripper]

I (who IS "I"anyway?) have seen an interesting looking extract from this species recently..

Some branches and phyllodes were concisely and swiftly pruned from a dense area of trees, some had dark red shiny stems and slender trunks with glossy phyllodes others had fairly dry and papery burnt looking phyllodes.
Standard acid base with much filtering.
Reduced to 500ml Then defatted with shellite.

Based with sodium carbonate, this is quick to raise pH to 11+ but takes a while to lyse the plant matter. At first the solution is ruby red and has a brown gravy-like sediment of gums and resins and after 3 or 4 days turns a maroon colour.
250ml of hot sunflower oil was added and the mix was shook vigorously.

At first the gums hang in suspension in the oil but after a few days drop to the bottom
forming a sediment.
2 or 3 tablespoons of salt was added to try to float the alkaloids, if present , above the sediment into the oil.

The oil was left to sit for a few days to clear of debri. Oil was separated.
A 100 ml or so tartaric acid solution of pH 2- 3 was added and shook rigorously.
Repeated and combined. Reduced on heat to 75ml. A white cloud appeared.
Split into small salt pots rebased and pulled with a mix of 25-30 degrees c heptane and light naptha.
Result after evap was a clear oily substance not an alkaloid most likely a bit of the sunflower oil.
Something precipitated again from the basified water after it was left to sit.

Warm days reduced this to 50ml so was put in a tray and mixed with excess sodium carbonate then oven dried and pulverised with a hammer to a fine powder, this was ' jarred'.

Oil was salted again and the result was boiled down to 20ml or so.. The slick of oil present was almost impossible to remove some acid water had to go with it.
The white substance in the glass was then pasted with Na2CO3 dried crushed and added to the jar for an ipa paste and pull.
Slow outside sheltered evaporation resulted in a crusty translucent extract that smells like no other, a pleasant fruity plasticy smell.
There is still sodium carbonate contamination but not much just a spot its only greeny brown from the trees in the background its more of a pale yellowy white. Its inside drying completely.

 

[DreaMTripper]

It turns out the IPA (diggers) wasnt anyhydrous and pulled sodium carbonate because once a basic water wash was done it all was washed away and after a certain ammount of water was added it dissolved completely.

 

[nen888]

..good initiative DreaMTripper..i'm still a bit dubious about sodium carbonate..

i hope the snippets of result info on this tree see more solid actualization soon