• Members of the previous forum can retrieve their temporary password here, (login and check your PM).

A Theory on Reincarnation

Migrated topic.
M

Morphane

Rising Star
It's been nearly a year I've been thinking about the concept of Oneness - "that we are all one consciousness experiencing itself subjectively" to quote Bill Hicks. From the Oneness we incarnate as individual people, and those who have spiritual encounters with this mystery experience what I only know by intellect. Although there are people I really connect with, there is also a vast group I do not. I've been struggling to understand how I fit with such people.

Lately I've been interested in Dr Campbell's idea that the Oneness is working to improve itself. I've also been interested in the idea of Bardo states and the Six Realms, with the ultimate goal being to transcend the Wheel of Life. Individuals go from one life to another, learning to transcend. But there is only One, so all incarnations are parts of the single process.

From an ultimate perspective, you could trace this One, progressing from non-existence and the first primitive lifeforms like bacteria, through the various animal species, finally arriving at self-awareness in the form of humans beings. Then from self-aware though savage humans, the One improves to selfless bodhisattvas and ultimately Nirvana. This process might look like a rainbow, where there are infinitesimally fine graduations from one colour to another.

But from our perspective there is no clear progression. Maybe things have become chopped and mixed up, so that quite enlightened souls can live alongside those who are very low down on the ladder; e.g the One near the end of its journey, personified as Jesus Christ for example, found an incarnation in a historical period far in our past.

If this is the case, would it make sense for someone reasonably high on the ladder to feel no affinity or connection for those lower down? In regard to myself: maybe I've progressed far enough to admire and desire Love, but not far enough to extend understanding to those underneath me. Maybe I am the One with still hundreds of thousands of incarnations to go before I am able to overcome my beastly instincts.

When the One is finally perfected, it stands amongst the lampstands "like a son of man". It says "It is done! I am the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end."

This might seem like an excuse for one such as myself not to pursue spiritual improvement, because I've still got countless incarnations up my sleeve, so I might as well eat, drink and be merry, and not even try to do anything for the great unwashed. But I genuinely feel there is nothing I can do to love others I don't naturally admire.

Does this resonate with anyone?
 
Well, I'm not sure about reincarnation, but I don't think it should be required of anyone to actually love everyone else. Actions matter more than feelings. What is necessary is to respect the rights of other entities to follow their own pursuits for happiness. Treat others as you would have them treat you, and do as you will when it harms no other. I don't think people should dedicate themselves to charity unless that's what makes them happy.

Beware that your train of thought sounds a little like a selfish copout- "Well I'm higher up the cosmic (=social?) ladder so that lot are beneath me and I don't have to bother with them."
 
Morphane said:
It's been nearly a year I've been thinking about the concept of Oneness - "that we are all one consciousness experiencing itself subjectively" to quote Bill Hicks. From the Oneness we incarnate as individual people, and those who have spiritual encounters with this mystery experience what I only know by intellect. Although there are people I really connect with, there is also a vast group I do not. I've been struggling to understand how I fit with such people.

Lately I've been interested in Dr Campbell's idea that the Oneness is working to improve itself. I've also been interested in the idea of Bardo states and the Six Realms, with the ultimate goal being to transcend the Wheel of Life. Individuals go from one life to another, learning to transcend. But there is only One, so all incarnations are parts of the single process.

From an ultimate perspective, you could trace this One, progressing from non-existence and the first primitive lifeforms like bacteria, through the various animal species, finally arriving at self-awareness in the form of humans beings. Then from self-aware though savage humans, the One improves to selfless bodhisattvas and ultimately Nirvana. This process might look like a rainbow, where there are infinitesimally fine graduations from one colour to another.

But from our perspective there is no clear progression. Maybe things have become chopped and mixed up, so that quite enlightened souls can live alongside those who are very low down on the ladder; e.g the One near the end of its journey, personified as Jesus Christ for example, found an incarnation in a historical period far in our past.

If this is the case, would it make sense for someone reasonably high on the ladder to feel no affinity or connection for those lower down? In regard to myself: maybe I've progressed far enough to admire and desire Love, but not far enough to extend understanding to those underneath me. Maybe I am the One with still hundreds of thousands of incarnations to go before I am able to overcome my beastly instincts.

When the One is finally perfected, it stands amongst the lampstands "like a son of man". It says "It is done! I am the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end."

This might seem like an excuse for one such as myself not to pursue spiritual improvement, because I've still got countless incarnations up my sleeve, so I might as well eat, drink and be merry, and not even try to do anything for the great unwashed. But I genuinely feel there is nothing I can do to love others I don't naturally admire.

Does this resonate with anyone?
Click to expand...

Yesus wasn´t incarnation, he was the son of Yah.
 
Up until two years ago I was a "born-again" holy roller Christian, and I had always thought reincarnation in the traditional sense was the epitome of Eastern philosophy's stupidity. I might be a worm in another life? Are you kidding me? It's kind of ironic in hind-sight because the whole "Born-again Christian" concept itself means one is essentially reborn spiritually which is not a far cry from the East's idea. The main difference being I could be reborn into any life-form for eternity. Once I walked away from that Christian faith, my mind completely opened up to ideas that I previously shunned as fiery darts from Satan LOL.

A breakthrough experience on Salvia completely changed my perspective on the after-life. I believe whole heartedly now that reincarnation is real only in a much more bizarre and incredible way. What happened in that breakthrough experience shocked me to my core. I was shot through space like a missile, and Earth shrunk beneath me till it disappeared. Me as I know me was erased completely. I landed in another world and entered something else very alien physically only I was not singular. I was plural, like a drop of water blown by wind is broken into smaller water droplets.

Before me were intelligent beings with large eyes. They talked to me telepathically. They were excited that I had come back. I was too, not in the way you would think though. See I was happy to be back from my "earth trip" meaning in that dimension I had gone to this dimension and back to the real world there. My existence here was but a memory of a dream there. I was glad to be back because I felt I had my whole life to continue, and the other beings felt the same way. They asked me why I was gone so long. We waited for our leader and when the giant being came his presence knocked me back to planet earth.

I could not in my wildest dreams make this stuff up. It all was as real as you and me. Experience is believing so they say, so what I've gathered from my experience is that reincarnation is happening to you and me right now only we aren't conscious of it. We are creature X there, creature Y in another place, creature Z somewhere else, etc. We exist in different lifeforms simultaneously but cannot consciously experience it all at once because this earth trip we're on right now has momentarily trapped our spirit via brain chemistry within the confines of space-time. What I'm saying shines a different light on the universal oneness/consciousness concept.
 
I think the brain can produce so many different perceptions of reality that you can be convinced of just about anything \ because of altered states you can experience anything.

Its a bit of a challenge to imagine not existing, it's not something that is really easy to do because we're drawn to be happy so we can find mates and have babies and beliefs that make people feel good about themselves tend to be absorbed easily so our species can continue to do what all species do.

The reincarnation question is a bit like the "if god exists who created god?" or "was there ever nothing?" if your lucky you grow out of those weird contemplations that can never really be worked out.
 
What is that avatar Jumiem, a Dune navigator?

SWIM doesn't believe in reincarnation because he hasn't heard any science that it would work with, but he's open to the idea of infinite recurrence, which would have similar results, except you never get to improve and just lead the same life again and again (as well as infinite different ones). Question is, when time plays again the same as before, is it a new consciousness, like a twin from another time, in which case one only lives once, or would one be there oneself so conscious again?

I do sympathise Morphane with your not wanting to deal with those who act more stupidly than you to avoid the hassle they cause... that's natural!
 
Its a creature from the movie Naked Lunch written by William Burroughs and produced by David Cronenberg. Highly recommended.
 
StudentofSalvia said:
Up until two years ago I was a "born-again" holy roller Christian, and I had always thought reincarnation in the traditional sense was the epitome of Eastern philosophy's stupidity. I might be a worm in another life? Are you kidding me? It's kind of ironic in hind-sight because the whole "Born-again Christian" concept itself means one is essentially reborn spiritually which is not a far cry from the East's idea. The main difference being I could be reborn into any life-form for eternity. Once I walked away from that Christian faith, my mind completely opened up to ideas that I previously shunned as fiery darts from Satan LOL.

A breakthrough experience on Salvia completely changed my perspective on the after-life. I believe whole heartedly now that reincarnation is real only in a much more bizarre and incredible way. What happened in that breakthrough experience shocked me to my core. I was shot through space like a missile, and Earth shrunk beneath me till it disappeared. Me as I know me was erased completely. I landed in another world and entered something else very alien physically only I was not singular. I was plural, like a drop of water blown by wind is broken into smaller water droplets.

Before me were intelligent beings with large eyes. They talked to me telepathically. They were excited that I had come back. I was too, not in the way you would think though. See I was happy to be back from my "earth trip" meaning in that dimension I had gone to this dimension and back to the real world there. My existence here was but a memory of a dream there. I was glad to be back because I felt I had my whole life to continue, and the other beings felt the same way. They asked me why I was gone so long. We waited for our leader and when the giant being came his presence knocked me back to planet earth.

I could not in my wildest dreams make this stuff up. It all was as real as you and me. Experience is believing so they say, so what I've gathered from my experience is that reincarnation is happening to you and me right now only we aren't conscious of it. We are creature X there, creature Y in another place, creature Z somewhere else, etc. We exist in different lifeforms simultaneously but cannot consciously experience it all at once because this earth trip we're on right now has momentarily trapped our spirit via brain chemistry within the confines of space-time. What I'm saying shines a different light on the universal oneness/consciousness concept.
Click to expand...

I've not even given thought to Hyperspace, and the possibility of life on other planets, let alone life in other dimensions/universes.

I asssume the One (absolute consciousness, God, whatever you want to call it) is currently playing the 'human' game on our planet at the moment. Once He/She is perfected, He/She presses a button which starts the process again, but with a different outcome. The One might then start the 'Vulcan game', or any alien you can think of.

Maybe Hyperspace is the baseline for the One? Maybe it is the storage zone of all different games, and becomes a place the One can refer to when it becomes powerful enough in any given incarnation.

RE: Eternal Recurrence - I know Friedrich Nietzsche talks about this. I'm not sure I'd want to repeat the same process forever, but if I'm unconscious of it, doesn't matter I suppose.
 
The progression or evolution of the One from primitive awareness to full blown Buddha/Christ consciousness is captured perfectly in Ravel's Bolero. The way the melody is repeated, but builds slowly, working to some kind of resolution which is only realised in the closing passage of the piece.

[youtube]

[youtube]
 
StudentofSalvia said:
I could not in my wildest dreams make this stuff up. It all was as real as you and me. Experience is believing so they say, so what I've gathered from my experience is that reincarnation is happening to you and me right now only we aren't conscious of it. We are creature X there, creature Y in another place, creature Z somewhere else, etc. We exist in different lifeforms simultaneously but cannot consciously experience it all at once because this earth trip we're on right now has momentarily trapped our spirit via brain chemistry within the confines of space-time. What I'm saying shines a different light on the universal oneness/consciousness concept.
Click to expand...


thats a really good way of describing it...
 
you know whats cool morphane you can play the two at the same time at different startin g points and it sounds even better.. ever listen to amon tobin?
 
ohayoco said:
What is necessary is to respect the rights of other entities to follow their own pursuits for happiness. Treat others as you would have them treat you, and do as you will when it harms no other. I don't think people should dedicate themselves to charity unless that's what makes them happy.
Click to expand...

I find myself coming to the terms that i must find myself throu helping others find themselves, through love of course in some way. This is what i feel I need to do for myself, impossibly sounding cuz others need me/others in other ways to find themselves. But this is even harder when people just arent on the same level(train of thought, have come so far). They just would not want to listen, so how could through your actions in actuallity be helping others out, besides having fun and socializing as i do. It seems people need not care where others have brought themselves to, they will(hopefully) experience the right things and consider them in the right way to make themselves better. The only thing we can do is to love unconditionally. Its the most effective way to bring any slight in-the-not-so-near-future change to another conscious of their conscioussness person, if they dont care they will simply never learn.


And sadly i think our collective path is not a true proggression but because of the factors of our societies not so much the naive psychonauts' fault(yes im refering to every human as one, we all add our little piece good or bad to the 'end result')
I mean i refer to everyone the same and as this cuz we all start off as the same infant, growing and learning.
 
Jumiem said:
I think the brain can produce so many different perceptions of reality that you can be convinced of just about anything \ because of altered states you can experience anything.

Its a bit of a challenge to imagine not existing, it's not something that is really easy to do because we're drawn to be happy so we can find mates and have babies and beliefs that make people feel good about themselves tend to be absorbed easily so our species can continue to do what all species do.

The reincarnation question is a bit like the "if god exists who created god?" or "was there ever nothing?" if your lucky you grow out of those weird contemplations that can never really be worked out.
Click to expand...

Thats true in a sence, but its not truly known weather what you expeirence in thoughs different states is created by the brain or detected by the brain or both at the same time, as some of it is imaginary as your brain finishes the picture based off of something that is real and being detected by the brain.

i think of reincarnation more as an energy, the energy that makes the soul that drives the body is recycled, because energy cant die out, only turned into other energy. if there is a soul, though i think its the more possible answer.
 
If we are all One, then even those who are not as spirtually evoloved are still part of us. There is only one of us here, and at some point in your incarnational cycle you have been in all states of that evolution to enlightenment. You have killed, and been killed. You have tortured and been tortured, you have loved and been loved, you have hated and been hated. So, do not disdain those who are not as aware, because you were at that point at one time, and are at that point in this moment, because they are you, and you are they. Making distinctions is separation, and in reality there is no separation, everybody is exactly where they are meant to be. We are all equal, all experiencing what we are meant to. There is no right or wrong, no better or worse, those are dualistic concepts that are part of the illusion of separation. All just is, and is perfect.

The best thing you can do is be yourself. However that may manifest. Since you are a unique manifestation of the One, all your experiences contribute to the tapestry of the whole. The best way you can honor God is to know and be yourself. To thine own self be true.

Unconditional love is the key, but it also must be tempered with Wisdom. Loving unconditionally can lead one into being taken advantage of by others, and then you are not expressing the core of your being, but rather being manipulated by another for their purposes, not your own.

Love with Wisdom...
 
Back
Top Bottom