• Members of the previous forum can retrieve their temporary password here, (login and check your PM).

Acacia DMT Season

Migrated topic.
R

rudder

Rising Star
Has anyone gotten to the bottom of this yet? So many variable reports. Look at A. longifolia for example. Some say at least 1%DMT in the bark, others say absolutely nothing.

I believe many factors contribute to this variability - even such esoteric things as temperature during harvest time, and moon cycles.

In general though, I hypothesize that Acacias contain more DMT towards the end of a prolonged dry season. Too bad I don't have the resources or time to execute a large scientific study to test my hypothesis...
 
Hi rudder. No One has ever, anywhere I know of, claimed 1% DMT from A. Longifolia.
Acuminata yes. Which is true. A lot of research is being done my Nexus members. Please google the Trying to Improve Acacia info. thread and read the wikipedia list of acacias containing psychoactive alkaloids first. Most of your questions will be answered. A. Longifolia is 0.3% roughly in Active Varieties. There are also non active sub species.
 
I've read that thread...my question is when were the Acacia mearnsii trees harvested? It would be helpful if the person who claimed 1.2% in the bark stated what time of year they were harvested, and give some info about drought vs. rainfall of when they harvested.

This is especially important, because I read that they acheived zero yield from the same trees four months later!
 
Interresting thread!

Whoever has easy access to spice-rich Acacias year round & has
the ability to subject plant matter harvested from them to chemical
analysis methods that reveal the presence & quantity of DMT in samples.

You could do various harvesting sessions throughout the year.
Could be done something like this:

Species of sampled individual: Acacia Acuminata(adult, +/- 5 meters high)
Location: Australia, Central Northern coastal area, near the city of Darwin.
Soil composition: sand(about %70), dirt(about 20%) and Lime(about 10%)

Harvest 1
Date: the 1st of Januari 2012, at 8 in the morning, at midday, at 8 in the evening & at midnight.(4 samples)
Materials sampled: Young leaves, Matured leaves, stem/trunk-bark, seedpods & flowers (if available)
%-age of DMT in sample:
-1.(1 January, 8 in the morning, Matured leaves): 0,08%
-2.(1 January, midday, Matured leaves): 0,09%
-3.(1 January, 8 in the evening, Matured leaves): 0,1%
-4.(1 January, midnight, Matured leaves): 0,14%
-5.(1 January, 8 in the morning, Matured leaves): 0,08%
-6.(1 January, midday, Matured leaves): 0,09%
-7.(1 January, 8 in the evening, Matured leaves): 0,1%
-8.(1 January, midnight, Matured leaves): 0,14%
" Etc etc "
Harvest 2
Date: the 1st of May
Click to expand...
And so on. You could take and analyse samples all year round. A long
research but if you live near Acacia trees and can chemically analyse
plant matter, why not do it?



Another thing to consider is that appearantly DMT has insect repellant properties.
This could hint that 1 of DMT's functions in plants is as an Insecticide.
Perhaps DMT in Acacia foliage may also deter some of the herbivores from eating
them. Giraffes are pretty much the only herbivores that eat Acacia. Perhaps
other herbivores would get ill when they eat DMT laden Acacia foliage?

Perhaps it could also act as a fungicide? Who knows.
To test this it would be interresting to test Acacias in different
conditions. You may find that leaves & bark from an A.Acuminata tree
infected by some kind of parasitical fungus are quite significantly
more loaded with DMT than leaves & bark of healthy specimens.
Or perhaps you may find that A.Acuminatas plagued by many herbivorous
insects chipping away at their foliage are unusually rich in DMT.

We need to investigate these things. Unfortunately I am not capable of chemical
analysis of plant material, nor do I live anywhere near any kind of Acacia.
But those nexusmembers who ARE that fortunate should defenitely put more attention
into these questions.
 
parasite infestation (such as galls/thrips) unfortunately in acacia relates mostly to variability of plant terpines, not DMT.

the most reliable heuristic for plant/environment interaction and alkaloid levels is to look at soil composition, if you look into distributions you'll see acacias have a special affinity with one particular element

for alkaloid concentrations my guess would be:

time of day is negligible
healthy trees > sick/stressed trees
natural conditions > cultivator conditions
 
Sorry rudder. I should have said I have heard it said that DMT has insect repellant proporties.
It was in a topic here on the nexus some time ago. Several nexus members mentioned that actually.
But I don't remember who exactly said that. Perhaps it was in a topic I started about seeking ways
to increase alkaloid(DMT) contents in Acacias, but I really can't remember now. I'll have to look it up.



I guess we are looking for a biological role in the Acacia tree's life.
Do DMT contents rise in Acacias following lengthy droughts? This may
suggest the DMT could help retain water? (Wildly speculating here)
Does DMT in Acacia barks & leaves deter certain herbivores from eating it?
DMT has been linked to "the staggers" in sheep that have been grasing on
certain Phalaris grasses, allthough I've also read reports contradicting that.

What are the things that threaten an Acacia tree's life in the wild?
And against which of these threats could DMT offer a defence?

This research should defenitely be done.



Another thing to consider is simply the soil.
Acacias must suck up 1 or more nutrients from it's soil and
then enzymes will step by step turn them, eventually, into DMT.
An unusually high DMT content in the leaves & bark of 1 particular
Acacia tree, could be explained simply by it's soil being particulairly
rich in the precursors the Acacia needs to make DMT with.

How much is known of the enzymatic pathways of DMT containing Acacias?
 
i dig that you're thinking about these things, some really good questions ^

it's thought the 'phalaris staggers' can be caused by a number of indoles

the particularities of DMT biosynthesis in acacia would be a fairly big question, chains of different enzymes like tryptophanase and others in stage-to-stage changes. it's fairly common in plants for basic tryptamines to exist as intermediate-stage alkaloids. and nature seems to be pretty averse to having one single function for any one thing. very interesting though, will have to have a closer look
 
..oh, i never have the Time..!:)

look..what insect doesn't like dmt..?:roll: also, plenty of humans, apes, monkeys, goats, bovine and aliens feed happily on the right species..except for the last category there's photos in the infothread and google..

insects, and humans, don't like as much 5meo, to start with..

then, if they're still too greedy at the WrongTime, are they honest enough to deal with bufotenine..?

but, if they really get greedy then phenols, and quinolines..only plants and friendly microorganisms like that!:twisted:

in the infothread p.28 i commented:
i guess i'm currently dividing tryptamine acacias into 'reliable' vs more variable species, and longifolia is certainly a variable species..some genotypes only contain Histamine and derivatives..
the strain i posted a photo of here contains 0.3-0.5% DMT stem bark, but not at all times of year..the fluctuation seems to be temperature/moisture based rather than strictly seasonal
Click to expand...

moisture i suggest results in less dmt because it becomes metabolised..used as a 'growth hormone' to do just that..after growing, it begins to make more..indole-acetic-acid is a naturally occurring plant root growth hormone, and also a precursor to tryptamines..

the Phalaris Staggers syndrome is no longer believed to be caused (concluded some Veterinary Scientists in a paper) by dmt in a paper entitled: "Experimental evidence tryptamine alkaloids do not cause Phalaris aquatica sudden death syndrome in sheep" Bourke C.A., Carrigan M.J., Dixon R.J.; Australian Veterinary Journal Volume 65, ...
again..google is your friend..and probably also the n.s.a by now..! see Phalaris=The Way Of The Ancient Past thread:)

and last up..N is the element..the element it needs..i believe..

SKA's suggested format of a record of times/content is great! Thanks SKA...
.
 
google is your friend..and probably also the n.s.a by now
Click to expand...
lol

Also the dmt might correspond with drought due to basic osmosis. The dmt salt would attract water into the plant tissues....just guessing.

Nitrogen (and lack thereof) is not an issue with Acacias, since they are nitrogen-fixing. I s'pose it may become an issue when acacias are introduced to areas outside their native range, but even then Acacias are generally regarded as promiscuous nodulators.
 
I think he means that Nitrogen is a key building block required to make N,N-uknowT.

It's symbiotic bacteria that fix aerobic N and make it available to the soil/plant.
If soil/mineral conditions are not right the Rhyzombium (symbiots) don't thrive, and the plant can't get as much nitrogen. The plant gives the bacteria sugars as a reward for nitrogen.
 
Here's a simple experiment that could be conducted by people
who happen to grow 2 specimens of a DMT rich Acacia species.

Grow both in a greenhouse, in airtight separated compartments.
Make sure all conditions (Temperature, Humidity, Airflow..etc)
are similair in both compartments except for 1 thing:
While in the one compartment the air-composition is like that
of the earth's atmosphere, the air in the other compartment
could be significantly richer in Nitrogen gas.

Perhaps, being able to take in more Nitrogen from the air
the Acacias in the Nitrogen-enriched compartment is able
to make more DMT? Come to think of it, it seems stupid
I've never considered this before.


The microorganisms that phyllode described also seem very worthy
of experimenting with. Perhaps Nitrogen gas-enriched greenhouse
compartments & these Rhyzombia micro organisms together could
lead Acacias to produce significantly higher & more reliable
DMT content.


However...Is it possible to find commercially available cultures
of living Rhyzombia bacteria? Anyone?
 
Not necessarily "commercially" per se....There's always the World Federation for Culture Collections – http://www.wfcc.info/home/

Commercially, I believe the Australian branch of Becker Underwood - BioSolutions enable healthy plants naturally carries inoculants for Acacia species.

Don't assume (although it generally works with Acacias) that an inoculant intended for one species of Acacia will work with another species.

Also, if there is adequate soil N available to the plant, then nodulation won't be necessary, and the plant may not form a symbiosis.

It's not always necessary to inoculate your plants. However, it becomes important in areas with soil low in Nitrogen, and also when your Acacias are being used to support hemiparasitic species such as Santalum spicatum (sandalwood) and S. acuminatum (Quandong).
 
rudder wrote:
Also, if there is adequate soil N available to the plant, then nodulation won't be necessary, and the plant may not form a symbiosis.
Click to expand...
Isn't most or all N in soil made available by microbes? Even if it's not via root nodule. N's not in rocks as such, unless trapped in gas pockets?

Good theories and thread though thanks rudder! :)
 
nen888 said:
moisture i suggest results in less dmt
Click to expand...

Yes but is there any evidence to prove this?

Does anyone know when the person acheived 1.2% from Acacia mearnsii vs. when they obtained 0% from the same trees?

There has to be some evidence to support this theory. Personally, this is the first thing I would pay attention to.
 
rudder said:
nen888 said:
moisture i suggest results in less dmt
Click to expand...

Yes but is there any evidence to prove this?
Click to expand...
Yes, 20 years of careful study and multiple reports, plus similar data from Phalaris spp.

Does anyone know when the person acheived 1.2% from Acacia mearnsii vs. when they obtained 0% from the same trees?
Click to expand...
No, but my guess would be when it was flowering based on 1) it is very hard to ID when it's not and 2) a recent report on the nex of what looks like a high yield during flowering..
but, i'm suggesting that it's generally moisture/temperature based, as opposed to light length/calendrical..
There has to be some evidence to support this theory. Personally, this is the first thing I would pay attention to.
Click to expand...
rudder....a lot of work has been done to come up with these 'suggestions'..
it's been mentioned a lot in the info thread..it has been commented on by other people over the years..it is almost universally agreed on in the case of phalaris, acacias are less studied by most people at this stage..
 
I don't know if it's been 'proven' at the level of scientific publication, but I agree with Nen888 that there's been a general consensus for the past decade or so that moisture stress increases alkaloids in tryptamine plants. Maybe not all, P. viridis springs to mind. 90s Entheogen Reviews pay testimony to this in phalaris reports. I think the same applies to Cacti.
 
The Meddling Monk said:
I don't know if it's been 'proven' at the level of scientific publication, but I agree with Nen888 that there's been a general consensus for the past decade or so that moisture stress increases alkaloids in tryptamine plants. Maybe not all, P. viridis springs to mind. 90s Entheogen Reviews pay testimony to this in phalaris reports. I think the same applies to Cacti.
Click to expand...

i thought it decreased it .. seems to be the consensus with acacia anyway
 
..i think monk means 'moisture stress' to mean 'dry' = increase alkaloids (i.e. the 'stress' is not much water)

so, i would have been happy to have the low alkaloids during flowering theory disproved by A. mearnsii, but turned out not to be the case..so i guess the successful result was not during flowering..
..i do note, however, that acuminata, while perhaps a little reduced in %, or a few more ß-carbs during flowering, still comes through with a good content..this is one reason it's one of the most recommended..
.
 
Back
Top Bottom