Acacia extraction, procedural questions

[nyru40]

Hello! New member (slightly new), long time lurker. With the aid of this forum, I completed a very nice mimosa hostilis extraction, using the straight to base procedure, since it seemed that Mimosa did not require a defat. (which was true. I got lovely eggshell white powder! very effective)

Nowadays, of course, mimosa is far gone, or at least out of my grubby fingers. Well within reach of these aforementioned grubby fingers, is Acacia Confusa. It seems that Acacia confusa contains a fair degree of tannins, plant fats, NMT, and DMT. Thus, this plant source requires a different approach (bear with me, I'm using this post to help myself better understand the process), the acid/base extraction. I've written out my general idea of what I should do, and I'd appreciate it if any experienced with Acacia could impart some knowledge. Apart from not having an acacia specific tek, I'd prefer to understand conceptually what I'm doing, so that I don't make mistakes out of ignorance.
So, thus, in the spirit of high school science fairs, I've written a procedure, and attached a set of question, for each step.

Does this seem alright? Anything else I should be concerned about, or that I missed? Is freeze precipitation the best approach for Acacia, or should I pursue the FASA method, forcing the fumarate salt out of solution?

Grind Acacia Hostilus bark
Acidify to ph 4 (is it specifically a pH of 4 that is necessary to salt and draw out the DMT?)
Collect acidified DMT water after simmering or boiling (which is better?) and combine in a separate container.
Reduce down (Do I have any temperature concerns in this? Is it already to keep this at a low boil and simmer it down?)
Pull using naptha (the DMT salt will not migrate over since it is a salt?), using 100 ml or so each time. Mix the water and naptha together thoroughly and let seperate, decanting the naptha and discarding. Defat no less than 3 times
Basify to a pH of 13 (is 13 too high?)
Pull with naptha no less than 3 times
Save and combine pulls, and freeze precipitate in cold freezer

(hope this isn't perceived as me being lazy with my research. I haven't, I'm just hoping for the guiding hand of the more experienced, or a simple affirmation if I've got it right )

 

[mikealbirta]

Those are a lot of questions! It seems like you're getting a little too technical about everything. An acacia A/B extraction can be extremely simple if you follow the right tek.

In your case the "DMT Handbook" (an updated version of Lextek's Extraction Guide) would be sufficient in answering all of your questions. It is incredibly detailed and accurate. SWIM has done several successful pulls because of it.

 

[Parshvik Chintan]

It seems like you're getting a little too technical about everything

eh, i see no reason to discourage thorough preparation

Is freeze precipitation the best approach for Acacia, or should I pursue the FASA method, forcing the fumarate salt out of solution?

its personal preference really (though i believe there can still be some unprecipitated DMT in the solvent if you FP it, but that doesn't matter if you are re-using the solvent anyways)

is it specifically a pH of 4 that is necessary to salt and draw out the DMT?

no, but 4 is an alright ph. really as long as your are following the tek you can't go wrong (not that its easy to go wrong at the acidifying stage anyway)

Collect acidified DMT water after simmering or boiling (which is better?) and combine in a separate container.

this part has me confused (also sub-boiling temps are sufficient, boiling probably won't hurt but there is no need), why seperate the container? there is still going to be DMT in the bark sludge, so why not leave it with the water?

Reduce down (Do I have any temperature concerns in this? Is it already to keep this at a low boil and simmer it down?)

my experience is with dry teks, so you may be correct, but i don't think you would need to add enough water to necessitate a reduction.

Defat no less than 3 times

i don't know if you necessarily need 3 defats, but overall it sounds like a viable method of extraction.

i see no reason it won't work.

also there are tons of teks here, so before deciding on just one, look around and see what looks best for you.

 

[rechard.kid]

Pretty similar to my acacia tek exept i do one of the defat wash with turpentine wich seems to absorb alot of fats and rest with shellite then first base pulls with dcm and rest shellite. 70% evap freeze percip.

Good luck peace

 

[acacian]

I think evaporation is best for acacia because they often have other alkaloids that don't precipitate from the solution as DMT would.... extract might be more gooey but that doesn't really matter in my opinion... and you can always make a changa from it

maybe try ph 5 for the confusa... apparently over acidification with acacia can cause the dmt to interact negatively with plant tannins or something.. it shouldn't matter too much, but make sure you don't leave it acidic for too long. I've had huge decrease in yields leaving acidic acacia solutions in the fridge for more than a week..pm nen888 he knows a lot more on the matter

acacia in my experience can be based with a relatively low amount of lye... i can add as little as 6g to get ph 12. you can always start low and then base it more afterwards if you think its not enough. there can be some interesting reactions when basing lower and theres the possibilility of other alkaloids precipitating out which don't like the higher ph.. the analysis on confusa seems pretty consistent with nmt and dmt being the main alkaloids but as a general rule with acacia I would reccommend this

if precipitating though you should evap the solvent to a tenth of its original volume and then stick it in the freezer, because less dmt will precipitate out if theres a lot of solvent... its good for it to be oncentrated. if you wanna grow nicer crystals stick it in the fridge for a while before you chuck it in the freezer.

if your more concerned with full spectrum use xylene or dcm naptha is too selective

 

[acacian]

Collect acidified DMT water after simmering or boiling (which is better?) and combine in a separate container.

this part has me confused (also sub-boiling temps are sufficient, boiling probably won't hurt but there is no need), why seperate the container? there is still going to be DMT in the bark sludge, so why not leave it with the water?

if you do enough boils and strain thoroughly there shouldn't be really as the dmt will migrate into the acidic solution. leaving the sludge in there can allow other impurities to migrate into the non polar layer as well as inhibit the solutions from mixing with each other as smoothly.. if concerned about there being dmt left in the sludge give it a quick rinse with a little bit of acidic solution and you should get it all out... especially if you've already boiled 3 or 4 times. I boil 4 times now just to be safe. I find filtering very thoroughly makes for cleaner spice personally.. but whatever floats your boat and it depends how much time you have on your hands. being jobless for a while I had a lot. :thumb_up:

 

[nyru40]

I think evaporation is best for acacia because they often have other alkaloids that don't precipitate from the solution as DMT would.... extract might be more gooey but that doesn't really matter in my opinion... and you can always make a changa from it

maybe try ph 5 for the confusa... apparently over acidification with acacia can cause the dmt to interact negatively with plant tannins or something.. it shouldn't matter too much, but make sure you don't leave it acidic for too long. I've had huge decrease in yields leaving acidic acacia solutions in the fridge for more than a week..pm nen888 he knows a lot more on the matter

acacia in my experience can be based with a relatively low amount of lye... i can add as little as 6g to get ph 12. you can always start low and then base it more afterwards if you think its not enough. there can be some interesting reactions when basing lower and theres the possibilility of other alkaloids precipitating out which don't like the higher ph.. the analysis on confusa seems pretty consistent with nmt and dmt being the main alkaloids but as a general rule with acacia I would reccommend this

if precipitating though you should evap the solvent to a tenth of its original volume and then stick it in the freezer, because less dmt will precipitate out if theres a lot of solvent... its good for it to be oncentrated. if you wanna grow nicer crystals stick it in the fridge for a while before you chuck it in the freezer.

if your more concerned with full spectrum use xylene or dcm naptha is too selective

Good to know, particularly about the acidity. I'll be sure to work quickly.

Bit of a silly question, but there wouldn't be any issues in using citric acid or phosphoric acid to acidify the acacia, right? I don't particularly enjoy the aroma of vinegar, and hydrochloric is something I don't really feel like working with in my kitchen. Citric acid is pretty darn cheap too, it appears.

 

[Parshvik Chintan]

Bit of a silly question, but there wouldn't be any issues in using citric acid or phosphoric acid to acidify the acacia, right?

should be perfectly fine :thumb_up:

 

[rechard.kid]

Thanks for the detailed reply