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Alkaloids and corresponding solvents.

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soulfood

soulfood

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Hi folks.

After a little searching here and there for the solubility profile for 5-meo-dmt I was wondering if we have a list of the most popular alkaloids, their different states (i.e freebase, fumerate, what have you) and what solvents they are soluble in.

I've seen various bits about solubility here and there but I can't recall ever seeing all that information in the same place. I was wondering if we could compile something like that to place in the wiki. If one already exists, great! Where is it? Otherwise I think it would be a really good idea.

If no one has done this yet I'll get started on it right away. I'm pretty clued up on solubility of DMT, Harmalas, Bufotenine and mescaline, but things like 5-meo-dmt, LSA, psilocybin and Salvorin-A I'm clueless about.

So yeah! Either point me in the right direction or fill in what you know :)
 
I know salvinorin likes acetone, preferably chilled to about -20F. This is just as soluble at this temp as at room temp but not for the fats and extras. You can use methanol, ethanol and also IPA but Salv A is not as soluble in these.
As for Psilo I have heard that Ethanol, Methanol and Vinegar are used to good effect.
 
Perhaps a more structure approach is needed here something like this

DMT - N,N-Dimethyltryptamine

Freebase Form

Slightly Soluble in :-

Heptane

Soluble in :-

Naptha

Very Soluble in :-

D-Limonene
Xylene
Tolulene
Acetone

Fumarate(Only Dry Salt form of DMT)

Very Soluble in :-

Water

Insoluble in :-

Acetone
 
Freebase DMT is soluble in IPA, not sure about fumarate, though it would be good to know, cause SWIM is looking for a way to clean up fumarate that doesn't involve acetone.
 
SWIM attempted that once, and went from solid fumarate, to a yellow goop. Has never had success crystallizing fumarate out of water. SWIM was also not sure if that method would actually purify the product, or just result in nicer looking crystals. Would the water actually remove impurities in the fumarate?

UPDATE: when SWIM initially followed this tech, he missed the part about using a small amount of water, and most likely used far too much. This tech relies on the solubility of fumaric acid in water being lower than the solubility of DMT fumarate in water, and so the amount of water is most likely critical to the success of the tech. SWIM will have to give this another go and see what results.
 
This would be a very handy reference.

Co-incidentally, I logged in today to see if I could find some info about solubility of thh and harmaline in cleanly evaporating solvents other than acetone which neither of those seem very soluble in.

*off to post in the changa thread*
 
I'm going start putting local information here starting with:


69ron said:
Freebase Bufotenine Solubility
Acetone @ 20 C: soluble (5 g/100 ml)
Chloroform @ 20 C: soluble
Dichloromethane @ 20 C: soluble
Dimethyl sulfoxide (DMSO) @ 20 C: soluble (6 g/100 ml)
D-Limonene (Orange Oil) @ 20 C: insoluble
D-Limonene (Orange Oil) @ 176 C: soluble (more than 1.7 g/100 ml)
Ethanol @ 20 C: soluble
Ether @ 20 C: soluble
Ethyl acetate @ 20 C: soluble
Heptane @ 20 C: insoluble
Heptane with 40% MEK @ 20 C: soluble (0.53 g/100 ml)
Heptane with 50% MEK @ 20 C: soluble (1.22 g/100 ml)
IPA @ 20 C: soluble
MEK @ 20 C: soluble
Methanol @ 20 C: soluble
Naphtha @ 20 C: insoluble
Water @ 20 C: nearly insoluble in pure water (no acid or alkali added)
Xylene @ 20 C: nearly insoluble (less than 0.03 g/100 ml)
Xylene @ 144 C: soluble (1.5 g/100 ml)
Click to expand...

I like this level of detail. Just what we need.

I think it's also been confirmed that bufotenine is soluble in limonene at 150C?

I'm thinking when we finally get all this compiled we can format it as a grid with substances along the top, solvents down the side and amount soluble in 100ml in the corresponding box rather than a simple yes or no(unless unknown amount soluble but we can do our tests in good time). That way it should be much easier to refer to than lists.
 
Agreed on the matrix format. Good idea.

FYI, posted a question which your harmala solubility knowledge could help out on. It's in the Changa thread here:

Any input would be appreciated.

Re: psilocybin, not very scientific info but apparently highly sweetened water (with sugar) as well as honey both leach psilocybin out of slightly dried fresh mushrooms very effectively. Was informed of a fantastic method called blue honey recently (soaking slightly dried fresh mushrooms in honey to extract psilocybin, then eating the honey). I have never heard of this before, any mushroom heads here do this?
 
benzyme said:
^^ all you really need, unless you're going to do chromatography with a binary solvent mixture
Click to expand...

Using this theory is it also possible to work out how much substance shall be soluble in the solvent in question?

Also I've heard that there are exceptions to XlogP's and that it's not 100% reliable for all substances. Does anyone know if any of these anomolies are relative to any psychedelics? If so which ones?
 
using an xlogp is actually quite relevant, since it's a function of hydrophilicity vs. hydrophobicity.
and yes, it is possible to use the theory to predict how much solute will be soluble in a given solvent, it just takes a bit of math

some molecular vis progs will actually highlight the part of the molecule which is solvent accessible; for instance, dmt and psilocin would both have the benzopyrrole ring highlighted. due to the relative nonpolarity of the ring structure, they lend themselves well to nonpolar solvents with similar structure, like toluene.
 
soulfood said:
Also I've heard that there are exceptions to XlogP's and that it's not 100% reliable for all substances. Does anyone know if any of these anomolies are relative to any psychedelics? If so which ones?
Click to expand...

Yes. Take a look at mescaline and then bufotenine. Mescaline is soluble in room temperature xylene and d-limonene while bufotenine is not. The XLogP3 of mescaline is 0.7 (PubChem). The XLogP3 of bufotenine is 1.2 (PubChem). According to their XLogP3 data, mescaline should be more polar than bufotenine and yet bufotenine is insoluble in room temperature xylene and d-limonene while mescaline is soluble in them. It's the complete opposite of what the XLogP3 predicts.

All of these mathematical prediction schemes are flawed. ALL OF THEM. The current understanding of chemistry is also flawed. That's why even experts argue about how to make a new compound with new reactions not previously known.

It's not yet an exact science. Not all variables are completely understood. If they were, you'd be able to predict all chemical reactions exactly using a computer program but you cannot. Because of this even the top chemists of the world make predictions that turn out wrong. Trial and error are the best bet. Chemical theories only get you so far and the rest is trial and error.
 
okay well swim has some salvianorin he needs to purify, it was insoluble in water and soluble in acetone - problem is - other things in raw salvia leaf seem to have the same solubility - what solvent is best to use to clean this up - what is it soluble in and what is it insoluble in ?
 
I read a tek that says repeated washes with "odorless paint thinner" can yield a very pure product.

Apparently this means ultra pure naphtha and regular naphtha won't do.

All the impurities should be soluble but the Salvorin-A won't be. Never tried this though, because salvia scares the living piss out of me.
 
Phlux- said:
okay well swim has some salvianorin he needs to purify, it was insoluble in water and soluble in acetone - problem is - other things in raw salvia leaf seem to have the same solubility - what solvent is best to use to clean this up - what is it soluble in and what is it insoluble in ?
Click to expand...
Isopropanol - Salvinorin A is really slightly soluble in isopropanol whereas the other crap (lipids, chlorophylls) dissolve in it. There is of course some product loss but IPA washes will give a very pure product that forms beautiful crystals if dissolved in acetone and left to evaporate at room temperatute

One may use Ice-cold IPA if he's afraid to lose some product.

EDIT: salvinorin A solubility in IPA is 0.74mg/ml
 
okay excellent - thanks - swim will try naptha as he has no iso - is it less soluble in naptha ?
swim is terrified of salvia too and doesnt intend to smoke this - its for the salvia tipped darts.
 
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