Alt aya ingredients for cold.

[Dillon]

Hi guys first post here so patience please. First where is this chat place that was mentioned in the noob section?

So I’m looking to make some aya tea but boy seems to be expensive for the 2 seemingly simple ingredients. Do you know a cheap source I can find them?

If not I was just going to start growing some in my garden. Though I’m in climate zone 8, so it gets freezing from time to time. Is there an alternative plants I can grow that will produce similar results?

Lastly any personal tips or links that helped you I would love to read through or hear about thank you all!

 

[Transform]

Hi there and welcome!

We can only talk about sources of live plants and seeds here, so your gardening idea sounds promising. You may want to look into acacia species and Syrian rue if you can't grow tropical plants.

Certain cacti may also be of interest to you, albeit not being directly analogous to ayahuasca, they can prove to be very rewarding to grow.

There's a menu button at the top left, where you should be able to find a link to the chat.

Have a good look through the forum, you'll likely find that much of the most useful information is stickied at the top of each subforum.

Hope this helps get you started - and get those seeds ready for the spring (if you're in the northern hemisphere)!

 

[Dillon]

Well I suppose that’s a good reason though not happy about it... so generally I read you want caapi (beta carbs?) and viridis (dmt). So should the rue replace the beta and acacia for the dmt source? I don’t suppose you can just use like acacia powder (like the health stuff, did that part violate guidelines?) or what plants have high dmt (will other than the aforementioned) I see that prairie mimosa looks like it might work. Sorry if this is ignorant. And does it generally matter what acacia type? Or what would I be looking for in the two ingredients? Thank you for your time and support.

 

[Transform]

Yes, it is possible to brew with acacia powder, but where you get that is your own business Fortunately, (live) Syrian rue seeds are widely available as incense at middle-eastern grocers.

All of our rules of engagement are laid out here:

Attitude Page - DMT-Nexus Wiki

wiki.dmt-nexus.me

The basics of ayahuasca can be found in the ayahuasca subforum under the section preparations and methods of administration - but you are, to a large degree, correct in saying that the overall principle consists of combining a β-carboline plant with a DMT plant.

Not all β-carbolines are equal, however: harmaline is more 'intoxicating' than harmine, while some of them, like harman, seem to exert an anti-psychedelic effect - as I found out while experimenting with sea buckthorn. In a similar vein, caapi is particularly valued for its THH (tetrahydroharmine) content. THH has practically no MAOI action but is instead a SRI (serotonin reuptake inhibitor).

The 'golden triumvirate' of harmala alkaloids has its own set of beneficial effects, independent of tryptamines like DMT. Indeed, powerful visionary effects have been reported from harmalas-only brews on occasion.

People have experimented with Desmanthus plants, and D. leptolobus is said to be more consistent than D. illinoensis. They both seem to require several years to become established before producing usable quantities of alkaloids, and illinoensis has a tendency to produce significant amounts of the less visionary NMT. How that might affect one's experience is something of a matter of personal taste, but it will generally make a DMT experience milder and more 'somatic'.

We have a whole lot of information on which acacias are active - both consistently or inconsistently. It's an ongoing work-in-progress. Get your acacias started now! (Or at least when seasonal conditions permit.)
Here are a few pointers to get you started:

Research - Acacia floribunda - Workspace and information

This is an acacia no doubt on the radar of many psychonauts hoping to grow their own source of tryptamines. Its a fast growing, frost and drought tolerant, foliage/floral abundant species; which can contain good levels of tryptamines in its phyllodes.. rendering it an especially appealing...

forum.dmt-nexus.me

Trying to improve Acacia information

..INDEX OF THIS THREAD [yellow links to relevant post] note: the main objectives of this thread, when it started in June 2011, were: 1) to improve the veracity of phytochemical info on Acacias worldwide 2) to encourage SUSTAINABLE use of Acacias, by growing 3) to find enough active species...

forum.dmt-nexus.me

Research - The Acacia Analysis Thread

For much more Acacia info (geographical areas and identification, sustainable harvest, alkaloid content, etc) Read the Acacia Info Thread Results are discussed throughout thread with more details. Ratios and percentages are approximate and subject to revision :) Acacia dealbata rootbark...

forum.dmt-nexus.me

Botany - The Acacia Grow Thread

Propagation of Acacias This thread is a dedicated space in which nexians are welcome to post their progress/knowledge in propagating acacia. Share techniques, grow logs, media, failures/successes, seed sourcing/collecting and any other propagation related info here. I'd love to see what members...

forum.dmt-nexus.me

The TOP 8 ACACIAS to Grow WORLDWIDE

..here is a recommended list of the TOP 8 ACACIAS TO GROW orientated for Nexians.. all except confusa & simplex [Pacific Ocean] are originally australian native, therefore will in most cases tolerate temperatures down to minus10°C (to minus12°C in one German report) A. floribunda is already...

forum.dmt-nexus.me

Besides that, have a scroll through the whole forum and acquaint yourself with the search function to see if you can coax it into generating a meaningful output

One more thing to consider - particularly if you're still waiting for your DMT plants to grow - is 'psilohuasca'. This is the possibly self-explanatory combination of a harmala source with psilocybin mushrooms. Go easy on the mushrooms! They are greatly potentiated by the β-carbolines, sometimes to a startling degree.

 

[Dillon]

Excellent tank you for the quick direct links it gets a bit over whelming. Apologies if I didn’t abide by the rules. I will read over all those links. And thank you fir your time.

So it turns out that I have a few silky acacia or mimosa tree in my yard, their even considered invasive here. Though I’m having trouble finding info on what parts contain dmt. Root bark or leaves (hopefully I like the trees) any chance you would have any knowledge on that? If my pretty trees are a viable source then would I just need to source a plant with MAOI inhibitor? Wait... Tabbaco is an MAOI? I’m growing that now!
Again thank you for your patience and knowledge! I really appricate it. There’s so much info, it’s like relearning how to hack consoles and stuff all over again! Thank you. Where can I buy the Syrian rue? Just kidding!! Though I assume I use the leaves in the rue? And I’m having trouble finding specifically Syrian rue. Are all rue the same like ruda andstuff like that? Eh I’m sure your links have that info. I’m off to reading!

Summary quick can I use my silk mamosa and tabbaco? I really hope you say yea! All from my own existing garden! Just lie and say yes! (No no don’t do that...)

 

[Transform]

Excellent tank you for the quick direct links it gets a bit over whelming. Apologies if I didn’t abide by the rules. I will read over all those links. And thank you fir your time.

So it turns out that I have a few silky acacia or mimosa tree in my yard, their even considered invasive here. Though I’m having trouble finding info on what parts contain dmt. Root bark or leaves (hopefully I like the trees) any chance you would have any knowledge on that? If my pretty trees are a viable source then would I just need to source a plant with MAOI inhibitor? Wait... Tabbaco is an MAOI? I’m growing that now!
Again thank you for your patience and knowledge! I really appricate it. There’s so much info, it’s like relearning how to hack consoles and stuff all over again! Thank you. Where can I buy the Syrian rue? Just kidding!! Though I assume I use the leaves in the rue? And I’m having trouble finding specifically Syrian rue. Are all rue the same like ruda andstuff like that? Eh I’m sure your links have that info. I’m off to reading!

Summary quick can I use my silk mamosa and tabbaco? I really hope you say yea! All from my own existing garden! Just lie and say yes! (No no don’t do that...)

You're welcome.

I think by "silk mimosa" you probably mean Albizia julibrissin, which unfortunately isn't a DMT-containing tree, even if it has antidepressant effects. Tobacco isn't really the MAOI you're looking for either, I'm sorry to say - the amounts of β-carbolines it contains are insignificant compared to the levels of nicotine. Still, I'd be interested to know if it's Nicotiana tabacum that you're growing, or maybe N. rustica - or a different species?

There's nothing to stop you exploring your relationship with these plants, ayahuasca analogues or otherwise.

 

[Transform]

One or two more things - Syrian rue (esfand, sbant, harmel, yüzerlik, moly...) is Peganum harmala (Nitrariaceae). This is largely unrelated to garden rue, Ruta graveolens (Rutaceaea), being similar only in appearance.

 

[Dillon]

Sweet I love how accurate and to the point your answers are. You have been most valuable to me. Thank you.

Carolina Bright Nicotiana tabacum L. Mr. Smarty pants knowing everything about everything!

So I think I have maybe narrowed my choice down. First obviously Syrian rue for the MAOI and I’m thinking acacia acuminata (seems easy to grow and I want to rely on the leaves not to harm the tree)
Does that sound good to you? Both tolerant to my climate easy and potent?

Do you have any opinion on Delosperma cooperi?

In your opinion what is better/diff in DMT vs 5-MEO? What do you prefer and should I even care?

And lastly my apologies if I break any rules, if so of course don’t respond to them. Given growing these will take a few years I would like to just buy some in the mean time (not asking for sources) but anything I find online that matches the name should work. Like dried Syrian rue and dried aya or acacia or caapi would work? I just want to try it in the mean time but rely on my garden for everything. Or do you have any pointers on that? Again just a temporary solution!
Is it ok if I ask for a source for the seeds? Just who you know is a good reliable source with good germination rates? (Again apologies if I broke the rules, I feel like I’m walking the line not over it yet though, but I’m usually wrong....

Oh and Psilocybe azurescens grows wild here a few others like blue Minnie (big name) so I’m off to forage today! I just found a bunch of wild black berry bushes that I transplanted!

Well hope you had a great thanksgiving and happy Native American day! I live in the PeeDee tribal area so maybe we’ll go have a kumbya!

Again thank you.

 

[Transform]

Thanks, I do try.

You can get Syrian rue at a middle eastern grocers or online. It's OK to discuss getting live seeds, just not dried plant material or any kind of extract. This is explained clearly in our rules. Finding seeds for the right active acacias shouldn't be too difficult. You may want to take a look at the STS site for that. I'll bet you can find something that'll grow nicely in your area.

Delosperma extraction has yet to provide positive results on this forum. There may be one specific strain that works, but it appears to be a matter of enormous luck to get hold of that. Or maybe Deulofeu (or whoever it was) screwed up their analysis in the first place. Also, Ott was never able to locate the primary reference [V. Deulofeu, 1973, "Distribution of indolethylamines and β-carbolines in plants", Ciência e Cultura 25(7): 649-659], at least at the time of writing Ayahuasca Analogues back in 1994. Rätsch, in his Encyclopedia of Psychoactive Plants (1998/2020), points to Smith et al.'s subsequent review of the Mesembryanthaceae family when mentioning the occurrence of NMT and DMT in Delosperma species. The follow-up volume, Rätsch & Berger (2022), lists a number of Delosperma species with alleged DMT content. At some point I should transfer those references to an appropriate Delosperma thread, unless somebody else beats me to it (hint, hint... )
Then there's the Rivier & Pilet reference, Rivier, Laurent & Paul-Émile Pilet (1971) L’Année Biologique 10 (3-4): 129–149. “Composés Hallucinogènes Indoliques Naturels.” which seems to be of similarly obscure availability, so it's probably best to use online resources, such as the "cited by" function on scientific publication websites like Pubmed/Pubchem to track references forward in time for a chance of finding up-to-date information.

It may also be worth planting some Desmanthus - leptolobus or illinoiensis - if you're happy to wait a few years for some plants that may or may not do anything

Nice, too, to hear you've got access to some of those woodlover psilocybes. They hold a special place in my heart, alongside the European native, P. semilanceata. By "blue Minnie", did you mean "blue meanies", which is a common name for Panaeolus cyanescens, growing on herbivore dung?


You do need to make yourself aware of the far riskier safety profile with regards to 5-MeO-DMT. It is quite simply a different compound than DMT, giving a significantly different experience. In particular, combining 5-MeO-DMT with harmalas ought to be avoided - the possibility of adverse health events is too great.

Thanksgiving isn't a thing over here, but I do appreciate the sentiment and particularly will be keeping a place in my heart for Native American day. Hope you've had a successful forage!

 

[StinkyStinkFace]

If you're in the Southeast US, using Passion Flower (Passiflora incarnata) for your MAOI may be an option for you. It is native here in Zone 7b. Seeds are relatively inexpensive, abundant, and somewhat fast growing or you may find one in the wild to take a cutting from or the whole plant depending on where you found it. Not to mention the delicious Passion Fruit and its wild looking flowers.

There are also a few grasses/reeds that contain DMT that you could look at: Phalaris arunicacea, Arundo donox, and Phalaris aquatica. They also contain small amounts of Beta-carbolines. I believe they are considered invasive in the Southeast so folks will likely be glad to get rid of them.

(Do not take plants from State or National Parks).

 

[Transform]

Hello, welcome, and thanks for sharing!

Phalaris arunicacea, Arundo donox, and Phalaris aquatica

We have some threads covering grasses. P. arundinacea is very variable, mostly in the direction of being weak or inactive. A. donax was seeming to cause an allergy-type reaction (hives) when investigated as a plain plant brew by Jim DeKorne. Also, its possibly significant 5-MeO-DMT [and bufotenine… etc.] content would engender the need for extra caution (ideally in the form of TLC analysis, or presumptive colour reagent testing at the very least) particularly if used in combination with harmala alkaloids.

Some specific cultivars of P. aquatica have shown promise, but working with random wild accessions will likely involve a lot of screening tests and possibly something of a breeding program. There's again the possibility of significant 5-MeO-DMT content so the same caution would apply.

One ought to check and see whether anyone has really succeeded in using P. incarnata as a MAOI - the reports I've seen all involve brewing massive amounts of the herb and its effects include a strong sedative action.

There are several passiflora threads to be found in our archives as well. Some of the tropical species appear to show promise.

 

[Wise_fool]

The roots of Honey locust, Gleditsia triacanthos, in combination with the foliage of Maypop, Passiflora incarnata.
These are two cold hardy species native to North America which can be brewed into Ayahuasca analogue.
I haven't tried it but it has been bioassayed before by P.D. Newman and the reports are that it's virtually indistinguishable from Ayahuasca. Check out the mind escape podcast episode 275.

Gleditsia triacanthos (Honey locust) is indeed entheogenic.