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Am I the only one who does it this way?

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MachineElf88

MachineElf88

Rising Star
From reading the various threads it seems the paste and pull is the way most people convert fumarates to freebase after doing a d-limo extraction.

What I do is when i have my fumarates in the water after salting it out of the limo I do the 10 minutes golden wax precipitation method - Fumarates to Freebase Conversion TEK - DMT-Nexus Wiki

That way I don't have to evap the water all the way down, I don't have to deal with scraping up hard fumarate. It's literally add sodium carb and put in the freezer and let it precipitate out. Works really well.

Is there any reason not to go this route? I seem to get a nice, orangey, full spectrum product. I can't imagine it would be much different to the paste and pull, just easier.
 
Sounds great.

Only complication I can think of is that some sod carb dissolved in the water which sticks to the wet dmt gets evaporated dry along with the dmt making your smoking substance contain some sod carb and harsher /less healthy to smoke. Additional final clean-up water rinse step?

Update: it states this in the tek never mind
 
Does anyone know much sodium carb per weight is needed to convert one unit of dmt-fumerate into freebase? I like to keep the sod carb to a minimum. I know you can stop adding when clouding stops, but is there a calculated ratio, or what is anyones experience roughly?
 
some one said:
Sounds great.

Only complication I can think of is that some sod carb dissolved in the water which sticks to the wet dmt gets evaporated dry along with the dmt making your smoking substance contain some sod carb and harsher /less healthy to smoke.

But will give this a try
Click to expand...
I did something like that with ammonia instead of carbs, evaps all away.
But my product went hygroscopic(?) some way and melted after a day. This problem was solved by washing my products (right after filtering) with a minimal carb solution, no contamination to worry about when doing that.
Here's that thread:
In #6 I complain of a low yield, but have never pin pointed the reason for that, and never gave it next shots to check out on.
 
Just to post an update on this -

When doing it the way I described there is residue limonene in the spice hence the orange smell and taste. Not the end of the world as limo is food safe but not ideal.

Since then I've been doing this:

1. Evap all the way down to hard fumarate and scrape
2. Dissolve in cold water and filter to get rid of excess fumaric acid
3. Evap down again and scrape
3. Do multiple cold IPA washes to get rid of all the limo
4. Dissolve in hot water and then follow the 10 min golden wax precip method.
5. Once I have my spice I dissolve in IPA and filter to get rid of any excess sodium carb
6. Evap

It's a hell of a lot more work but cleaner product. I might start having a look at FASI.
 
In the responces to the post "Am i the only one who does it this way" over in the dmt extractions page under the fasa section. "Some one" asked "Does anyone know much sodium carb per weight is needed to convert one unit of dmt-fumerate into freebase? I like to keep the sod carb to a minimum. I know you can stop adding when clouding stops, but is there a calculated ratio, or what is anyones experience roughly?"

I came up with(see attached article) that shows it as a 1 to 1 mole ratio between dmt fumerate and sodium carbonate. So 105.9888g of Na2CO3 are need per 492.608g of dmt fumerate. I added all the removable sections(i did not include molarity, simple add in once its determined) because i doubt you would be using my given values of reactants.(like you got 50mL of 0.3M dmt fumerate not 493g of dmt fumerate).
 

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mr.smiley said:
So 105.9888g of Na2CO3 are need per 492.608g of dmt fumerate. I added all the removable sections(i did not include molarity, simple add in once its determined) because i doubt you would be using my given values of reactants.(like you got 50mL of 0.3M dmt fumerate not 493g of dmt fumerate).
Click to expand...
A small note. Your calculations assume the molar weight for sodium carbonate as the anhydrous salt. When the sodium carbonate is derived from freshly heated sodium bicarbonate (assuming full conversion), it will be anhydrous. If left to the atmosphere, it will absorb moisture, turning initially into a monohydrate (add 18.015 to the molar weight), and finally into a decahydrate, with a molar weight of 286.1416 g/mol. Sodium carbonate as is commonly encountered in stores usually comes as the decahydrate.
 
Sodium carbonate decahydrate is efflorescent in all but the most humid atmospheres, meaning it loses water. It also absorbs carbon dioxide from the air fairly readily, giving once again the bicarbonate, which as a crystal is anhydrous.

So for ease of calculation, use your anhydrous sodium carbonate as fresh as possible.
 
I've been experimenting with the different FASA/I/W teks and FB conversions.

I found this to be the most efficient route for obtaining pure DMT (Fumerate).

DMT Fumerate:
1: Use Cybs A/B Salt Tek to obtain freebase DMT
2: Dissolve the final yield in acetone
3: Filter undissolved material using cotton in a funnel or syringe
4: Add FASA until no more clouding
5: Wait until the DMT Fumerate precipitates
6: Decant the solution, add fresh acetone to wash, decant again, dry

Freebase Conversion:
1: Dissolve DMT Fumerate in water
2: Add a basic solution with pH >11
3: Pull 3x with Naphtha
4: Freeze precipitate, decant, dry

Doing FASA on Limo /Xylene /Toluene results in a yield which smells like the NPS. Xyl and tol are toxic and very unpleasant smells to work with. Food grade Limo residue is safe for oral use, but some brands precipitate Fumeric acid. It also needs to be distillated (frequently) for proper use. In any case, the yield is contaminated and needs to be cleaned. This requires additional time and work.

I prefer the A/B naphtha freeze method instead. The FASA conversion is a good clean up step to turn sticky yellow, or dirty /contaminated DMT to clean bright yellow /white. Many plant substances don't dissolve in the acetone. These are filtered out. Many plant oils stay dissolved in the acetone after FASA is added. End result is clean DMT Fumerate which smells like pure DMT salt. Also, you know exactly how much DMT you have to start with, so you know how much FASA you need max. No need to worry about adding FASA too fast, Fumaric acid can't precipitate out in the acetone when adding too fast, as it does in NP solvents.

As for the conversion from Fum to FB, I didn't like any of the options stated here and in other treads. Some failed, others were a pain to work with, and all of them resulted in sodium carbonate residue in the yield. Easiest, safest and purest way to convert is to base with Lye, pull with Naphtha and freeze precip. Due to the small volume of liquid, 3 pulls were enough. No need to do much shaking. An acceptable amount of yield loss occurred, most due to discarding impurities and non DMT oils.

When doing FASA + FB conversion as a clean-up after an A/B, there are less oils in the FB yield. I found these oils sometimes had the smell of undissolved Naphtha. The yield after this technique hardly smells (of anything) at all.

The added value is that by freeze precipitating naphtha, you can recycle the NPS for re-use. You can also recycle the leftover Acetone into FASA by placing it back in a container with excess Fumaric acid. Quite sustainable..

The whole FASA/I/W road map is interesting. But imho the best way to use this innovation is after an A/B tek. This gives DMT Fumerate for storage and oral use. To convert back to FB, simply perform a mini A/B.

The disadvantage of this method is that the yields are not full spectrum (orange /red) or half spectrum (yellow, dark yellow), for the people who desire that. It also uses toxic Naphtha and corrosive Lye.
 
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