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Anti-depressants & DMT - IS it possible to experience visuals and breakthrough?

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T

Transient.au

Rising Star
I'm getting quite despondent about whether or not I will ever breakthrough or even see OEVs/CEVs while smoalking DMT. I have tried about 10 times within 6 months, so nothing desperate, but have patiently given myself time for things to hopefully fall into place without pressure.

Every time I have smoalked, I have experienced the body load, a subtle feeling of being in an altered state and mild transparent layers of "ripples" in my vision, but absolutely nothing like the trip reports of impossible colours and fractals that I've read and listened to.

I could understand that it's quite possible that my tablets (in this case, 100mg Pristiq (Desvenlafaxine)) are directly masking my experience, but I'm not entirely convinced, as I have also read reports from people who take anti-depressants and have no issues with visuals and breaking through.

Is there anyone on dmt-nexus that is in my situation but is able to enjoy the full experience of this wonderful compound? Or is someone able to give me any advice?

Thank you very much. Very eager for your responses!
 
I don't have personal experience to match yours. If I load 50mg it is still hard for me to reach breakthrough when other do it on less easily. I have never had the open eye visuals some report. Much has to do with method and developing technique. You may want to include some of those details. What kind of spice, mg used, and method. How well you think you have technique down. That may be helpful to other that do have personal experience.
 
It varies dramatically, depending on the person, the type of medication, the type of psychedelic, and the dose.

My room mate smoked a full bowl of DMT on some SSRI, felt nothing. Yet shrooms worked for him.

My brother’s girlfriend also on SSRI’s felt nothing off psychedelics until one random time she dropped some acid with friends.

I know a guy who prefers acid when he’s on SSRI’s because it gives him “distance” so he’s not overwhelmed by what he witnesses.

SSRI’s also tend to block out or reduce MDMA’s effects.

This is an area where no one can give you clear answers - but it’s definitely not impossible for psychedelics to work with SSRI’s. The effects will almost always be reduced though, and often completely blocked. You’ll only be able to find out by experimenting.

Also: never take ayahuasca with SSRI’s, the harmala MAOI’s in ayahuasca can kill you when mixed with SSRI’s (or MDMA for that matter).

A suggestion if you REALLY want to trip: ask your doctor for moclobemide. Moclobemide is an MAOI antidepressant. It will actually make psychedelics in general significantly stronger. Never mix moclobemide with SSRI’s or MDMA, because as mentioned, MAOI drugs combined with SSRI’s or MDMA is a lethal and painful combo.

You can actual eat DMT on moclobemide... just like ayahuasca.
 
Daytripper63 said:
I have never had the open eye visuals some report. What kind of spice, mg used, and method. How well you think you have technique down.
Click to expand...

I assume you did report closed eye visuals upon breaking through?

40mg NN-DMT, vaped using a Motar quartz coil atop a GeekVape Aegis Solo mod. Have also smoked changa out of a straight weed pipe. I probably have better technique with the changa as it's pretty straightforward – getting the right wattage with vaping can be quite experimental and wasteful on the spice.
 
OneIsEros said:
You can actual eat DMT on moclobemide... just like ayahuasca.
Click to expand...

Funnily enough, a couple of ADs ago -- yet prior to my interest in DMT -- I was taking Moclobemide for a couple of months but didn't feel it was the right fit for me. Now knowing about how it could benefit me, I'm considering going to my doctor and asking him whether I could "revisit" Moclobemide to give it another chance.

After becoming aware that this MAOI AD could be of benefit, I also got confused by the contradictory reports I was reading, saying there was a contraindication between Moclobemide and DMT. Logic says that this isn't the case, but I didn't want to take the risk/waste my time shifting from one AD to another without firm evidence that it was low risk and worth my time.
 
The only contraindication is that it makes it WAY more powerful than it would normally be. Like doubles the potency at least. Won’t kill you or anything, but if you ever do ayahuasca don’t bother with the MAOI plant (or you’ll double dose your MAOI’s and trip way harder than you meant to), and if you smoke DMT start with half a standard dose or lower.

That and avoid MDMA. MAOI+MDMA=dead.

Moclobemide will also make other psychedelics stronger too, like mushrooms and mescaline.

If it is capable of killing you, don’t mix it with moclobemide. But DMT, psilocybin, mescaline, LSD, are physically safe no matter how high you dose - they’re just way stronger. So, accomodate for that, or you may accidentally traumatise yourself psychologically with a super intense trip.

Also: take care of yourself, friend. If your depression is worse on moclobemide than on SSRI’s, maybe psychedelics aren’t worth it. Weigh it carefully. Depressive episodes are dangerous.
 
Hey there,

i always and everywhere read that Moclobemid and MDMA are somewhat like a safe proof way of "suicidal". I know about the serotonin syndrome but i did that combination 3 or 4 times now. I am taking 300 - 450 mg Moclobemid, depends on how long the day is.

I started with small amounts of MDMA. First time i sniffed 50 mg, if i remeber right, waited untill i had the full effect then heated up my vape and smoked dmt every 10-20 minutes to keep it at a moderate level. After roughly 2 or 3 hours i again sniffed 50 mg MDMA. It was very enlightened and controllable. I sweated aittle more then expected but that was the only thing i recognized.

3. time roughly the same setting but took half a pill of extacy inbetween. While less predictable in when or how strong the MDMA floods the system, i got emotionally extremely intense for rougly 45 minutey ( there can be too much love,... believe me) with sweating like a waterfall but after that 45 minutes ir was all fine again. Nevertheless, pills i most likley wont do again in this setting.

I don't want to motivate anyone taking unnecessary risks with that combination, i am not a doctor but for me this combination is the way to go for now.

I guess its all about the dosis and the awareness of the risk, that can be calculated and minimized if you are responsible with the dosages and stay patient with the onset.
 
I take Wellbutrin and Abilify. They don't seem to affect DMT, but I do think they lessen the mushroom and LSD effect somewhat.
 
*Not a doctor* I am bipolar 1 and have been vaping DMT almost daily sometimes twice a day for a few months now. have yet to fully breakthrough as i understand it to be and read about peoples experience. I was taking Abilify, Remeron, Lamotragine, Adderal and Clonazapem. i slowly stoped getting much result at all at doses of up to 200mg of quality spice. i originally achieved strong visuals and the ear ringing etc going in for about a month or so now if i do get anything its skips all this and i'm imagining sub breaktrhoughs sneak up on me. I've read a lot of quality studies from institues of health, reputable journals and universitys. on SSRI's or SNRI's you need to be carefull of seratonin syndrome. Abilfiy and Remeron and strraight antidepressants are 5HT2a and 21 to a point seratonin antagonists that keep the receptors for these uptaking serotonin where NN floods us with Seratonin. two things here - risk of seratonin syndrome (i was getting bad headaches sometimes so think i had a smidge of this) and slowly stopped reacting to the NN. NN works predominantly with the 5HT2a receptors as an agonist (takes serotonin in) where antidepressants and antiphysocotics are antagonists (keeps your receptors from taking up 5HT2a so you have more in your brain which is what shows the efficacy for fighting depression. I stopped taking abilify and remeron and had two sub breakthroughs again but no entry visuals or sound affects. NN also effects Glutamate receptors and my Lamotragine is a mild antagonist of this. i'm thinking the meds were getting in the way so i decided to experiment without abilify and remeron. I am getting very nautious for a while now and almost vomiting but not sure what this is a funtion of. i have started to speak to the molecule setting intentions showing gratitude etc while premeditating as i've read peoples experiences are helped by this. Again not a doctor but these are from indepth reading and personal experience as mentione. MDMA can be very dangerous for seratonin syndrome as well and ampetamines and benzopiazanes don't help the cause either. safe tripping and hope we both get what we are searching for.
 
I take antidepressant sometimes for my chronicle nerves pains in the feet but i quit for at least a week before having mushrooms !
Anytime i had psilocybin while taking Duloxetine , it was at least 5 times less potent than without ! A real pity :(

I think it depends on ppl but it's known that mixing serotonin boosters isn't good anyway ...
it can even lead to "serotonin syndrome" which could even be deadly in rare cases , so they say ...
 
Transform said:
Likely your huge doses of DMT have been affecting gut serotonin receptors (5-HT₃) responsible for nausea. Or do you mean purely from the withdrawal from aripiprazole (abilify) and mirtazapine (remeron)?
en.wikipedia.org

5-HT3 antagonist - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org
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ty. i've tried high and low doses. originally it was much different and more relliable in effect. after more reading i think i might be vaping at too high a temp. usually 210 to sometimes 220c. any lower and i dont feel likei i''m getting anything. two nights ago i loaded up about 200mg and did two sessions. Absolutely nothing from either. i'm really starting to believe this molecule has a mind of its own and if i don't show gratitude and set up properly expecting too much it denies me. just after stopping remeron and abilify i had two light beautifull sub breakthroughs. still haven't had a full breakthrough possibly from the 5HT2a antagonists which should be outof my body now. waiting on another 5 grams this week and going to try lower heat in all four of my vapes that have worked well before. i have an absolutely insane tolerance to narcotics of all kinds so might be partially why. i'm hoping with the meds out of my system and a small break things might be different. i think the higher heat is causing me to dry heave and almost vomit almost every time now. the molecule is trying to tell me something i need to figure out imo.
 
I take an SSRI, and even with rather high doses DMT (up to 60 mg vaporized/smoked, 150mg ingested with 150mg harmalas) I can only get to the 'fractal overlay' phase with ease, and the 'total fractal experience' very few and short times... So I have decided to wait till I am off of the SSRI in a few months, and then even wait some more (6 weeks) so my receptors in my brain are all squeaky clean. Only then will I try again.
 
rjohnsonvan said:
ty. i've tried high and low doses. originally it was much different and more relliable in effect. after more reading i think i might be vaping at too high a temp. usually 210 to sometimes 220c. any lower and i dont feel likei i''m getting anything. two nights ago i loaded up about 200mg and did two sessions. Absolutely nothing from either. i'm really starting to believe this molecule has a mind of its own and if i don't show gratitude and set up properly expecting too much it denies me. just after stopping remeron and abilify i had two light beautifull sub breakthroughs. still haven't had a full breakthrough possibly from the 5HT2a antagonists which should be outof my body now. waiting on another 5 grams this week and going to try lower heat in all four of my vapes that have worked well before. i have an absolutely insane tolerance to narcotics of all kinds so might be partially why. i'm hoping with the meds out of my system and a small break things might be different. i think the higher heat is causing me to dry heave and almost vomit almost every time now. the molecule is trying to tell me something i need to figure out imo.
Click to expand...
You mention high tolerance to "narcotics" - I'm guessing this means opioids. (Unfortunately, the pejorative application of this term to include all psychoactive substances that get used recreationally has muddied the original, specific meaning.) Anyhow, it sounds to me as though you may also be a strong metaboliser, especially if you noticed this tolerance before ever having any SSRI,etc., treatment. Some medications also upregulate metabolic clearance, I'd have to check specifically for the ones that you've listed. The upshot is that you may well be deactivating DMT through the CYP2D6 'side route' as well as having downregulation of the serotonin pathway both by competitive receptor blockade and glutamate suppression.

This is my series of educated guesses, at least!
 
Transform said:
You mention high tolerance to "narcotics" - I'm guessing this means opioids. (Unfortunately, the pejorative application of this term to include all psychoactive substances that get used recreationally has muddied the original, specific meaning.) Anyhow, it sounds to me as though you may also be a strong metaboliser, especially if you noticed this tolerance before ever having any SSRI,etc., treatment. Some medications also upregulate metabolic clearance, I'd have to check specifically for the ones that you've listed. The upshot is that you may well be deactivating DMT through the CYP2D6 'side route' as well as having downregulation of the serotonin pathway both by competitive receptor blockade and glutamate suppression.

This is my series of educated guesses, at least!
Click to expand...
Thanks for your time commenting. the strong metabolizer part is something i'm investiagating now. off the meds for a couple weeks, took a small break, and bought a high quality supplement with 5htp. l tyrosine and l glutamate to help with serotonin, dopamine and norepinephrine production hoping this amplifies the spice. fingers n toes crossed. i just want to say hi to a purple gypsy. not like i'm asking too much... thanks again
 
rjohnsonvan said:
Thanks for your time commenting. the strong metabolizer part is something i'm investiagating now. off the meds for a couple weeks, took a small break, and bought a high quality supplement with 5htp. l tyrosine and l glutamate to help with serotonin, dopamine and norepinephrine production hoping this amplifies the spice. fingers n toes crossed. i just want to say hi to a purple gypsy. not like i'm asking too much... thanks again
Click to expand...
sorry glutamine production as i'm still taking half of my lamotragine dose and it has an affect on glutamate receptors in some way i'm still trying to figure out. i'll get there thousands in spice and vapes but i'll get there!
 
rjohnsonvan said:
*Not a doctor* I am bipolar 1 and have been vaping DMT almost daily sometimes twice a day for a few months now. have yet to fully breakthrough as i understand it to be and read about peoples experience. I was taking Abilify, Remeron, Lamotragine, Adderal and Clonazapem. i slowly stoped getting much result at all at doses of up to 200mg of quality spice. i originally achieved strong visuals and the ear ringing etc going in for about a month or so now if i do get anything its skips all this and i'm imagining sub breaktrhoughs sneak up on me. I've read a lot of quality studies from institues of health, reputable journals and universitys. on SSRI's or SNRI's you need to be carefull of seratonin syndrome. Abilfiy and Remeron and strraight antidepressants are 5HT2a and 21 to a point seratonin antagonists that keep the receptors for these uptaking serotonin where NN floods us with Seratonin. two things here - risk of seratonin syndrome (i was getting bad headaches sometimes so think i had a smidge of this) and slowly stopped reacting to the NN. NN works predominantly with the 5HT2a receptors as an agonist (takes serotonin in) where antidepressants and antiphysocotics are antagonists (keeps your receptors from taking up 5HT2a so you have more in your brain which is what shows the efficacy for fighting depression. I stopped taking abilify and remeron and had two sub breakthroughs again but no entry visuals or sound affects. NN also effects Glutamate receptors and my Lamotragine is a mild antagonist of this. i'm thinking the meds were getting in the way so i decided to experiment without abilify and remeron. I am getting very nautious for a while now and almost vomiting but not sure what this is a funtion of. i have started to speak to the molecule setting intentions showing gratitude etc while premeditating as i've read peoples experiences are helped by this. Again not a doctor but these are from indepth reading and personal experience as mentione. MDMA can be very dangerous for seratonin syndrome as well and ampetamines and benzopiazanes don't help the cause either. safe tripping and hope we both get what we are searching for.
Click to expand...
Guys i'm totally stumped now (ie frustrated as fuck...) i take ginger pieces to help with the nausea that also has some MAOia properties high dose Circumin and black pepper / piperadine (MAOia and MAOib) use 100 to 150mg in three different proven expensive vapes try short multiple inhalations long draw and hold inhalations, mediate deeply clear my thoughts set intentions (ask for guidance on life events) have very high quality spice hi quality headphones with different forms of mediative music, eyemask in a darkened room, smudge, keep my gear in crystal clean shape and 6 times in a row now from different vapes have experienced ZERO effects. like nothing of any sort. I'm now completely off Abilify, Remeron and titrating down the lamotragine for the Glutamate activity, i even managed a few days break from the spice and no adderall or clonazapam. i have a solid 40 hours of quality research and know there is no tolerence affects that being said i have an insanely high tolerence to all forms of narcotics (started experimenting way to early in life i geuss). have never had a full breakthrough and the initial visuals and audio stopped a while ago. i know this beast has an otherwordly extremely unique and powerfull mind of it's own but it's almost comical how i do every little thing i can to make it work. has anyone else completley lost getting any affect whatsover for a time? i'm using this and proper high quality complimentary supplements to counteract getting off the legal drugs but f me this is frustrating. And if anyone goes deep and my name comes up i didnt really mean to tell it to fuck off the other night is was just a bad day and i was looking for my little break from it. ty
 
Being on SSRI, I experience somewhat the same problem: even with high dosis (50 to 70 mg), I only get like 30 seconds of visual overlay, and thats it. I will be getting of the SSRI in march if all goes well, and I plan to wait 6 weeks after that to try dmt again, the reason being that I want my receptors clean, and a few days just is not going to cut it in my experience: I tried like two days of SSRI, then taking oral dmt+maoi ('godlike' dosis), but all I did was purge. Not even visuals. So...

I also am worried about stopping medication. I told my shrink I wanted to do dmt, and he was worried about that, then advised the two days break in ssri (to avoid seratonin overdose). He also told me that I should keep taking the ssri for a full year after my last depression, or it would risk coming back, in which case I would have to take it for like 2 years. Something about rewiring the neural pathways in the brain.

So 'just' stopping medication seems pretty risky. Perhaps you should consult your shrink about it, and get off the medication in a safe manner, then wait another 6 weeks to clean your receptors, and then try dmt. Its a pain to have to wait, but you cant take risks with your brain. I know a few people that cut their ssri/antipsychotics who then plunged into the deep end so hard. Just my two cents. Wish you all the best.
 
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