Any occultists here?

[Sapience]

Hey all,

I'm not very experienced in psychoactive substances, but I've had my fair share of experiences. I'm interested in the idea that the spice may be the missing link between science and mysticism.

Can any other occultists here that have visited hyperspace comment?

Thanks!

 

[Xavi Li]

Im super interested to hear from any as I too have been wondering something similar to this and just got back from a metaphysics shop where im trying to grasp all of the concepts of that particular area of study and this answer intrigues me, I hope to hear one.

 

[jamie]

Sure.

The knowledge is in the gnosis.

Drink a big glass of ayahuasca and you will grasp all of that stuff.

What else would you like to know?

 

[Sapience]

Sure.

The knowledge is in the gnosis.

Drink a big glass of ayahuasca and you will grasp all of that stuff.

What else would you like to know?

I'm preparing to blast off in the next few days. Can you or anyone else compare it to a natural out-of-body experience? I guess I'm trying to figure out if the spice takes you to the "mental plane" or how / and if it relates to obes.

Thanks

 

[Mz.Gypzy]

Hi,
I am also new to the forum and also new to spice. I have always considered myself an occultist. If your definition of occultist is someone searching for the hidden secrets of the universe through whatever means?

My experiences so far with spice seem to remove the veil between worlds/dimensions. It seemed to fling me into the flowing infinite energy of the universe.
I have my whole life been looking for the answer for the big questions through all kinds of things. drugs, spirituality, meditation etc.
Spice is a great thing but it did not for me answer that question. It only made me realize that the question is much bigger than we can even ask.
My only advice would be to find out for yourself. Like a science/mysticism experiment and then let us know what you think.

 

[VisualAnemia]

I'm preparing to blast off in the next few days. Can you or anyone else compare it to a natural out-of-body experience? I guess I'm trying to figure out if the spice takes you to the "mental plane" or how / and if it relates to obes.

Thanks

Natural OEB? Might just be the hippiest thing I've ever heard.

If you refer to lucid dreaming I simply lay on my back with arms below my head under my pillow, works everytime.

To actually experience an OEB without drugs is something I do not see as a possiblity, of what I've read about the actual thing it doesn't sound any different from normal sleep paralysis which IMO is easiest achieved when you wake up in the morning and right after take a warm bath.

In comparison to what you're talking about a OEB on DMT is completely different, you are physically there and you may actually feel physically exhausted upon coming out of the experience. I often come out shaking violently due to some serious adrenaline levels achieved while in "hyperspace" and these doesn't kick in untill I "come out" (come down just doesn't cut it with DMT,IMO)

The often dark, puzzling and story-telling scenarios alot of people have during a vivid dream is to me quite characteristic with most DMT experiences, as if you're following a predestined path, maybe it's fate guiding you

 

[SpartanII]

To actually experience an OEB without drugs is something I do not see as a possiblity, of what I've read about the actual thing it doesn't sound any different from normal sleep paralysis which IMO is easiest achieved when you wake up in the morning and right after take a warm bath.

After having dozens upon dozens of OBE's since I was 3 or 4 years old, I can safely say having an OBE without drugs is definitely possible.

Also, Sleep paralysis in the context of OBE's is the pre-OBE state in which your mind is awake and your body is asleep. Energy vibrations are then sometimes felt or easily induced, followed by a visceral sensation of separating from the physical body if one is having an OBE.

Reading about something is quite different from actually experiencing it, my friend.

Lucid dreaming is usually considered a separate experience from the out-of-body state by those who have experience with both.

 

[Visty]

I have just a little experience with lucid dreaming. Just 2 lucid dreams I am afraid. I could not find the mental discipline to maintain a lifestyle of being aware of light all the time. This refers to the work of Stephen Laberge of course and his books on lucid dreaming. And more precisely the Course in Lucid Dreaming that I started to do.

For those who do not know about this particular course, well, it is based around a mindset during waking hours to maintain an attention, a focus on light sources in order to be aware of these sources when they appear in a dream. When you then see a light source in the dreamstate, induced by a device called a 'Nova Dreamer' which is a device that you wear as a sleep mask that detects REM or Rapid Eye Movement, which then starts flashing led-lights onto your closed eyelids, signaling you are dreaming, you become aaware of the fact you are dreaming. This then leads to a lucid state. From there on there are techniques you can apply to maintain that lucid state.

The whole point is attention in the waking state and inducing the same alertness in the dream state.

I am reminded here of a quote I extracted, don't mind the pun, from an interview with Graham Hancock, by the word 'alert', which he uses to describe our normal day to day mental state. This interview was with Regina Meredith:

I will shorten it:


"Our society values alert problem solving consciousness. And it devalues all other states of consciousness. Any kind of consciousness that is not related to the production or consumption of material goods is stigmatized in our society today. Of course we accept drunkenness. We allow people some brief respite from the material grind."

What I find interesting here is that in order to achieve lucid dreaming is that you take this alert problem solving consciousness into the realm of the dream, which belongs more to the mystical experience in order to become aware of this mystical natural ability we call dreaming.

To me, in an occult way I suppose, this shows me a principle truth: that reality is discerned most vividly through the alchemical merger of the logical with the intuition, the left with the right brain hemisphere, that duality itself is a way to describe a fractal mind, therefore a fractal universe, yet it is also the merger of the occult with science. I believe in the end is a synergistic experience of reality and my explorations have this search as a key element associated with the psychedelic experience.

From an early age I have been exposed to the occult because my family is rather paranormal and have been in fact in the heart of the occult movement in my country, in terms of healing abilities as well as medium abilities.

I think for that reason, just as it was with McKenna by his own words, that I have an appreciation for and little fear of the strange and the weird. Psychoactive substances are an continuation into those realms. Telepathy and other such phenomenon are close to my heart.

 

[SpartanII]

I have just a little experience with lucid dreaming. Just 2 lucid dreams I am afraid. I could not find the mental discipline to maintain a lifestyle of being aware of light all the time. This refers to the work of Stephen Laberge of course and his books on lucid dreaming. And more precisely the Course in Lucid Dreaming that I started to do.

For those who do not know about this particular course, well, it is based around a mindset during waking hours to maintain an attention, a focus on light sources in order to be aware of these sources when they appear in a dream. When you then see a light source in the dreamstate, induced by a device called a 'Nova Dreamer' which is a device that you wear as a sleep mask that detects REM or Rapid Eye Movement, which then starts flashing led-lights onto your closed eyelids, signaling you are dreaming, you become aaware of the fact you are dreaming. This then leads to a lucid state. From there on there are techniques you can apply to maintain that lucid state.

The whole point is attention in the waking state and inducing the same alertness in the dream state.

As you probably realize, you don't need a Nova Dreamer to achieve lucid dreams. It can be a valuable tool (I have one and love it), but it's best to not have to rely on external tools, and instead develop your own innate powers of awareness.

How about instead of maintaining a lifestyle of being aware of light, instead maintain a lifestyle of being aware of the present moment, as in Mindfulness practice? Then, not only will this benefit you and build awareness in general, the mindfulness of the present moment will carry over into your dreams, and you will drastically increase your chances of becoming lucid. Lucid in daily life= lucid in dream life. You might even be able to maintain full awareness as you fall asleep, resulting in WILD's (Wake-Initiated Lucid Dream).

I am reminded here of a quote I extracted, don't mind the pun, from an interview with Graham Hancock, by the word 'alert', which he uses to describe our normal day to day mental state. This interview was with Regina Meredith:

I will shorten it:


"Our society values alert problem solving consciousness. And it devalues all other states of consciousness. Any kind of consciousness that is not related to the production or consumption of material goods is stigmatized in our society today. Of course we accept drunkenness. We allow people some brief respite from the material grind."

What I find interesting here is that in order to achieve lucid dreaming is that you take this alert problem solving consciousness into the realm of the dream, which belongs more to the mystical experience in order to become aware of this mystical natural ability we call dreaming.

To me, in an occult way I suppose, this shows me a principle truth: that reality is discerned most vividly through the alchemical merger of the logical with the intuition, the left with the right brain hemisphere, that duality itself is a way to describe a fractal mind, therefore a fractal universe, yet it is also the merger of the occult with science. I believe in the end is a synergistic experience of reality and my explorations have this search as a key element associated with the psychedelic experience.

From an early age I have been exposed to the occult because my family is rather paranormal and have been in fact in the heart of the occult movement in my country, in terms of healing abilities as well as medium abilities.

I think for that reason, just as it was with McKenna by his own words, that I have an appreciation for and little fear of the strange and the weird. Psychoactive substances are an continuation into those realms. Telepathy and other such phenomenon are close to my heart.

Good stuff, thank you for sharing.

 

[Visty]

You are right of course. I don't know about this mindfulness thing. I heard the term and loosely what it is about. But it seemed Yet Another New Age Way To Knock Money Out Of Your Pocket By Going To Workshops sort of thing. The idea is right. But how to get there...I guess you need them workshops...or do it on your own. Well, if doing it on my own would do it for me maybe I would not be so interested in psychoactives.

I am not sure what it is about me or humans in general that we naturally...or is it culturally, draw to absent mindedness. Is it not a case of mental discipline? And why does it have to be so that any such discipline is the result of practices of many sorts, that is, training. I wished it were natural...

 

[SpartanII]

I don't know about this mindfulness thing. I heard the term and loosely what it is about. But it seemed Yet Another New Age Way To Knock Money Out Of Your Pocket By Going To Workshops sort of thing.

Mindfulness is just a term to describe a different way of paying attention. Instead of always operating in "doing" mode of mind, you switch to "being" mode. You simply be here, now. It doesn't originate with the New Age movement, it's based on Buddhism, and which has been around for a long time.

From Wiki:

Several definitions of mindfulness have been used in modern psychology. According to various prominent psychological definitions, Mindfulness refers to a psychological quality that involves

-bringing one’s complete attention to the present experience on a moment-to-moment basis,[1]

-paying attention in a particular way: on purpose, in the present moment, and nonjudgmentally

-a kind of nonelaborative, nonjudgmental, present-centered awareness in which each thought, feeling, or sensation that arises in the attentional field is acknowledged and accepted as it is

Bishop, Lau, and colleagues (2004)[3] offered a two component model of mindfulness:

The first component [of mindfulness] involves the self-regulation of attention so that it is maintained on immediate experience, thereby allowing for increased recognition of mental events in the present moment. The second component involves adopting a particular orientation toward one’s experiences in the present moment, an orientation that is characterized by curiosity, openness, and acceptance.[3]:232

In this two-component model, self-regulated attention (the first component) involves conscious awareness of one's current thoughts, feelings, and surroundings, which can result[citation needed] in metacognitive skills for controlling concentration. Orientation to experience (the second component) involves accepting one's mindstream, maintaining open and curious attitudes, and thinking in alternative categories (developing upon Ellen Langer's research on decision-making). Training in mindfulness and mindfulness-based practices, oftentimes as part of a quiet meditation session, results[citation needed] in the development of a Beginner's mind, or, looking at experiences as if for the first time.

Mindfulness - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

I guess you need them workshops...or do it on your own. Well, if doing it on my own would do it for me maybe I would not be so interested in psychoactives.

You don't need workshops, it's very simple to do, just difficult to remember to do. You can find good techniques on the internet, or books on meditation or Buddhism.

I am not sure what it is about me or humans in general that we naturally...or is it culturally, draw to absent mindedness. Is it not a case of mental discipline? And why does it have to be so that any such discipline is the result of practices of many sorts, that is, training. I wished it were natural...

It is natural. Children are more mindful of the present moment, but they soon lose that inherent mindfulness and playfulness as they are taught to be "adults" and shift to more left-brain hemisphere modes.

 

[Visty]

It remains vague to me. How do you do it then. What is it? How can you know you are doing it? I am not really interested in Budhism. I copy McKenna's stance on that. I don't have time to sit in meditation for decades. Ans books... that reeks of 'self-help'. I try to stay away from that corner of the market.

Maybe I am doing it. But how would I know? It sounds smart, mindstream and maintaining open and curious attitudes. Sounds like opening yourself up to suggestion, so that ads come in deeper. And what about 'Beginners mind'. I am not a beginner, my mind has been with me forever.

Nah. I'll take my shrooms or DMT and find answers there.

 

[SpartanII]

It remains vague to me. How do you do it then. What is it? How can you know you are doing it? I am not really interested in Budhism. I copy McKenna's stance on that. I don't have time to sit in meditation for decades. Ans books... that reeks of 'self-help'. I try to stay away from that corner of the market.

Maybe I am doing it. But how would I know? It sounds smart, mindstream and maintaining open and curious attitudes. Sounds like opening yourself up to suggestion, so that ads come in deeper. And what about 'Beginners mind'. I am not a beginner, my mind has been with me forever.

Nah. I'll take my shrooms or DMT and find answers there.

Like the definitions state, you pay attention to present moment sensations, as they occur.

Sit in meditation for decades?:lol: What's that all about? I never implied anything like that. And it has nothing to do with "opening yourself to suggestion so that ads come in deeper".

It seems you have your mind made up on dismissing ancient wisdom and proven methods for increasing your awareness using your own faculties, and relying on chemical crutches, so I won't go into more detail. You can do your own research if you're actually interested.

 

[Visty]

Ancient wisdom? I tend not to think so linearly. It seems that despite wisdom, society is not as it should be. I am a spiritual person but lack discipline to busy myself with meditation. Meditation is too boring. Nowadays they are telling people that you can still call it meditation if you sit there staring at a candle while your thoughts are out of control going wherever they are, from considering what to have for dinner to what the neighbor actually does that he can pay for this or that car.

If ancient wisdom had an answer, it should have found its way into culture and society. It has no power to bring people to it who then reshape society according to some visionary line of thinking. The only option is chemical intervention. Maybe that is why Big Pharma is doing well.

Mindfulness. It mouths good. But I am always thinking about the nature of reality, what the psychedleic experience is, what it is for, how to create a map of my inner landscape, what the patterns are in reality that might lead to a deeper understanding. Is that mindfullness? What I have seen on tv about it comes in the form of 50- year old housewives desperately seeking to get some sort of hold on their dwindling fading lives by going the wholesale easy escape route. To me it has the same feel as some new diet that somehow mysteriously pops up one day and that everybody starts raving about. And always it is an easy diet or meditation, it doesn't take an hour, you can do it easily, it is good for everyone, the effort is minimized, the result maximized.

Another one of those things is...what was it called again...The Secret? I am sure it is all mind blowing stuff for some materialist consumer that finally looks up in the supermarket from reading the nutritional facts and realizes... he left his cell phone in the car, god forbid. Yesterday I saw a consumer program on tv and people are paying €11,50 insurance premiums a month for a service that replaces their smart phone within 4 hours (but they don't) because, as one girl said, she knows she drops her phone on the ground and she cannot be without a phone for some unexplained reason.

Well, maybe that is the person who needs mindfulness, being aware in the moment might save you €11,50 a month because you won't be so clumsy and distracted to drop whatever is in your hands, it being that important...and still it drops. Whatever keeps your boat floating, right?

In a few years no one remembers anything about The Secret, Mindfulness or the latest diet hype. These are mass consumer wholesale spirituality for the absent-minded. They are marketable concept and products and throw-away spirituality. Society won't change because of it. And that is what the drugs are for I think. Mindfulness might teach you how to accept the stress and rat race of modern western society, well, global society, it is after all not isolated in the global village and markets to become materialists. But it won't reduce the stress of living in an unnatural world or enable you somehow to work against it. Someone being mindful is not going to demonstrate in the street, outraged by what is inflicted upon them.

 

[SpartanII]

Visty,

It seems you're "throwing the baby out with the bathwater". Mindfulness isn't some New Age scam, it's a practical way to increase your awareness of reality (i.e. the present moment).

Psychedelics are a useful tool, but if you're not being mindful of your consciousness, how will you integrate the experience?

Mindfulness and psychedelics are synergistic with each other.

 

[Hyperspace Fool]

I'm not going to jump into this discussion. There are already a good many threads here on the Nexus where I ramble on about Lucid Dreaming, Astral Projection, WILDing, and other such nifty things. (search for those terms here if you wanna find them)

I will just say to Visty that meditation would be very helpful to you. You don't have patience and discipline... that's okay, you just miss out on what such practice could offer you. Physical exercise can be tedious and takes dedication as well, but if you want to have a body that is in good shape and will serve you well, you invest in it. The same goes for the mind and the spirit.

In the authentic holistic training methodologies of the world (from Yoga to Kung Fu to Huna etc.), this kind of energetic and mind expanding work (typified by Chi Kung) is considered cultivation. Just like you wouldn't expect apples to magically appear on a barren piece of ground, so too, the fruits of such internal work are not likely to just appear to you without cultivation.

This has nothing to do with hype, consumerism or any such thing.

And, if you do develop these skills, they work like gangbusters when practiced on entheogens. You could learn to meditate into states that most people need LSD to get to... but if you do that same meditation while on ayahuasca, you will go much farther than you could even by simply doubling your dose. You can reach levels that are simply not accessible no matter how much sacrament you throw down your throat.

 

[Visty]

I am sure you are right. There are things one can do that will make you excel or exceed average accomplishments. One of the greatest struggles in my life is to find discipline or motivation. I know apples do not appear magically. And that if you are sound of body and mind you can go a lot farther,even in trips I'll take your word for that. I lack persistence, motivation or some other mental ability to hone myself. DMT intervention might bring some answers as to why I seem to be dysfunctional in this way.
So don't get me wrong guys. I am sure mindfulness and other techniques are useful. But it is a chicken-egg thing for me. I would need to find motivation to practice any technique which would teach me motivation, or whatever is required. Chemical intervention, self work through the mushroom, my last hope I suppose.

I am getting older. I do not have a complete life left to do the things I always wanted. Like being a writer. I have so many stories inside me, but to actually write them is a whole other story, no pun intended. So what do you do in that predicament? I am running out of ideas.

Last time on shrooms I asked for repair of my mind, so that i could stand on my own as it were. I had a headache like 8 days in a row after that. I was wondering if repair elves were working my mind...or that I had invited some unholy presence to prey upon my naive weakness. Who knows.

I am prepared to be reckless with my sanity. Something has to give. My hopes are on the psychedelics, not on - to me - unachievable techniques, such as meditation or yoga. I hope you understand my gridlock situation.

 

[SpartanII]

My hopes are on the psychedelics, not on - to me - unachievable techniques, such as meditation or yoga.

No offense, but that sounds like a cop-out.

This is why you're gridlocked. As long as you keep telling yourself it's unachievable, you won't achieve it. But I suspect you already know this.

 

[vardlokkur]

Spartan, Jamie, and HyperspaceFool have some of the best knowledge on here as far as synergizing entheogens with classic ecstatic disciplines. While many people think OBE and vivid CEV to be solely an exogenous gift, the evidence runs contrary towards this. Just because someone else has difficulty, don't let it slow you down because they feel inclined to tell you what YOU can't do based off their sujective experiences or lack there of.

 

[Hyperspace Fool]

I am sure you are right. There are things one can do that will make you excel or exceed average accomplishments. One of the greatest struggles in my life is to find discipline or motivation. I know apples do not appear magically. And that if you are sound of body and mind you can go a lot farther,even in trips I'll take your word for that. I lack persistence, motivation or some other mental ability to hone myself. DMT intervention might bring some answers as to why I seem to be dysfunctional in this way.
So don't get me wrong guys. I am sure mindfulness and other techniques are useful. But it is a chicken-egg thing for me. I would need to find motivation to practice any technique which would teach me motivation, or whatever is required. Chemical intervention, self work through the mushroom, my last hope I suppose.

I am getting older. I do not have a complete life left to do the things I always wanted. Like being a writer. I have so many stories inside me, but to actually write them is a whole other story, no pun intended. So what do you do in that predicament? I am running out of ideas.

Last time on shrooms I asked for repair of my mind, so that i could stand on my own as it were. I had a headache like 8 days in a row after that. I was wondering if repair elves were working my mind...or that I had invited some unholy presence to prey upon my naive weakness. Who knows.

I am prepared to be reckless with my sanity. Something has to give. My hopes are on the psychedelics, not on - to me - unachievable techniques, such as meditation or yoga. I hope you understand my gridlock situation.

I sympathize with your predicament. Many people have such issues to greater or lesser degrees. Discipline and motivation are somewhat different skills, though.

I would suggest to you that you not focus on long term discipline. This is primarily a matter of developing the habit of certain activities. Motivation is enough to begin with. Not merely for the practices we have discussed, but for the mastery of any skill... including your writing. As someone who also is daunted by the sheer time investment needed to churn out fiction, I relate to you quite well. And, it is never too late to write... it is one thing that you can never get too old to engage in.

A slight change in attitude and focus is all that is really required. If you recognize the benefits of a certain activity, there is motivation enough in this. Don't project into the future or lament the amount of work that lies in front of you, just simply start the activity and plug away one step at a time... try and stay in the moment. When you reach your attention span limit or become exhausted, ask yourself if you can tough it out for another minute, and do this 5 or 6 more times before taking your rest. In this way, you will increase the amount of time before such fatigue sets in next time. It won't be long before you can put a good amount of time into the activity in question.

This is similar to hiking up a mountain. If you only dwell on how far you have to go, you will get discouraged. Merely start to walk, and focus on the sensation of each individual step. Rest when you require it, but push yourself a little bit each time you set out and soon the whole thing will become easy, as you develop the requisite stamina and conditioning.

Your main enemy in mental disciplines is the wily ego voice which whispers to you all manner of bullshit trying to discourage you from any activity that it feels might threaten it. Meditation and yogic practice are damn near the top of that list.

I am not going to discourage you from using entheogens to find your answers. By all means not. I will only wind this up by saying to you that entheogens only rarely give you the entire cure for what ails you. They are awesome at showing you where and what to work on. And, combined with mind work and a good deal of focused intention, you can make lasting changes... but psychs are often like the coming attractions for a film. They have glitz and flash, and might give you a decent idea of if the film is worth seeing... but they don't give you the whole story. You can even be left more confused about what the film might be about. It can even be that really awesome previews mask a rather tepid film, or (usually) the other way around.

Doing the inner work is seeing the film. It is slower and less intense and packed with action, but at the end of it... you know the whole thing.

All the best...
HF