Any scientists care to comment... discussion of phenethylamines & tryptamines

[John Smith]

There's a heated debate going on Imminst forum about phenethylamines and even touches DMT a bit. I know some participants there are way too advanced in neuroscience, probably graduate or above level so I can't really pitch in, but to give you some quotes:

Prolonged 5HT2A agonism would likely lead to permanent negative dissociative side effects, including HPPD.

Oh and the phenethylamine alkaloids are highly psychologically addictive and can result in constitutive dependence because of the anxiolytic effects.

Psychedelics arent known addictive drugs like cocaine, amphetamine etc.

There are many know cases of abuse with psychedelics, which include psychological dependence and physical withdrawal. I know of individuals who have continuously low dose on psylocybin mushrooms simply because they had convinced themselves that they are harmless, and they enjoyed being 'high' indefinitely. The only reason their addictive potential is lower then that of substances such as amphetamine and cocaine is because of the gradual onset and prolonged activity. They still modulate dopamine and stimulate the reward pathways. Euphoria, energy and massive mood enhancement are very psychologically addicting, and many of the PEA analog psychedelics have these effects.

I'm sorry but the anecdotal reports of 'cognitive enhancement' are bullshit, just because they are from the subjective perspective of an individual under the influence of a psychedelic. There are so many psychoactives out there that can make an individual utterly delusional in the belief that they are somehow 'enhanced' by the substance they are under the influence of, large increases in the availability of NE, DA and 5-HT in the synaptic cleft will cultivate these kinds of delusions regardless of whether they are based on any kind of evidence.

I don't have enough science background, but this guy(Animal) who is basically been very knowledgeable source of info for years from Imminst is basically badmouthing serotonigenic compounds... anyone care to comment ?

Psychedelics phenethylamine's as potent nootropics? - Brain Health

Page 1 of 2 - Psychedelics phenethylamine's as potent nootropics? - posted in Brain Health: Ive recently made a thread about this on bluelight, there were a few very interesting experiences posted in my thread including my own experience.http://www.bluelight...ad.php?t=503184I'm gonna quote my...

www.longecity.org

 

[jamie]

hmmm..
sounds like a bunch of people talking.

Can you really generalize things like this saying "phens are addictive" etc and apply that to all phens? Methamphetamin is a phen right? So is mescaline..and you dont see people on the streets breaking into cars so they can freebase some more mescaline.

Just because someone has a degree in neuroscience doesnt mean much necessarily..it does not mean they know a whole lot about psychedelic pharmacology.

You could say that playing nintendo in psychologically additive for w/e reason..or anything that is enjoyable..I mean..sure you can make those statements but so what?

Sounds like a circle jerk or something to me..

 

[jamie]

"The only reason their addictive potential is lower then that of substances such as amphetamine and cocaine is because of the gradual onset and prolonged activity"

Like that comment in reference to psilocybin mushrooms. Really I dunno who this guy is but he cant be all that informed on the subject he is speaking about. There is far more going on on a pharmacological level that results in the addictive potential of amphetamines and cocaine than just fast onset and short activity.

I mean what the frak? DMT, 5meoDMT, salvinorin and some others can all be vaped for extremely fast onset and short activity..I dont see people wandering the strees freebasing 5meoDMT and smoking salvia looking for the next fix.

 

[universecannon]

Sounds like a bunch of baloney. I haven't read the thread, and am not really familiar with longecity... but what I've noticed on other so called "science forums" is that, a lot of the time, they're filled with ego, dogma, and flat out BS. Anything outside the culturally sanctioned paradigm is immediately labelled bunk at first site. That said, there is some very interesting and brilliant people in every corner of the web - i dont mean to over generalize

Having a degree really doesn't mean much.. I'm friends with several neuro and cognitive scientists that i currently study under, and while many are brilliant, some of them can have such a narrow and delusional view of things at times - just like everyone else. They're still human...Not to mention there is many different kinds of intelligence- the word itself is deceiving. Prime example: my cousin was offered a job at harvard or some such place, for math i think...he also believes the earth is 6,000 years old... and that god created women out of the rib of a man, or whatever it is the bible says!

 

[Infundibulum]

I don't think there is merit discussing here what other people discuss in other forums....

Whoever wants to join their discussion should go there and lay his points, not here.

Thread locked.