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Are we moving too fast with Legislation?

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H

HolderChert

Rising Star
It's great to see this happening in Oakland (this is my home town), and I'm very excited for the progress we're making towards changing public opinion and freeing ourselves of the stress and worry of unjust incarceration.

But is our society really ready for full legalization? Or "over decriminalization"?

Decriminalization is a great step towards opening the eyes of the public and gaining traction in the hearts and minds of the non-believers of society, and it brings me great joy to see government officials pulling back from the obviously counterproductive war on drugs. But in all honesty, I feel like it may be a little nieve to expect the public to keep up with our expectations of harm reduction and drug education.

Anyone who has affiliation with a broad range of demographic and social groups may agree, most people just don't care to educate themselves on substance use and usually learn from their mistakes (alcohol and legal cannabis for instance). How many people do you know that got blackout drunk a good number of times in their youth before they started to learn, first hand, their limits through these negative experiences?

Heres a link to Michael Pollan's recent controversial op-ed in reaction to the recent Denver & Oakland legislation: "Not So Fast on Psychedelic Mushrooms"

And also a link to Psymposia's first ever podcast in their new "(+++)" or "Plus Three" Series featuring our very own Snozzleberry (David Nickles), who, many of you I'm sure know, is a moderator here at the forum: "We Hope Michael Pollan Changes His Mind"

Both arguments hold relevant and important points concerning the future of psychedelic legislation and legalization and what steps we should take next and support as a community. I'm personally hoping to see a discussion and some new perspective on this important topic because I'm still on the fence (admittedly leaning more towards clinical facilitation as a future for psychedelics, keeping in mind the capitalistic and political repercussions).

What keeps me on the fence is, it is true that many people can (and currently do) benefit from these beautiful resources (and that's an understatement) currently outside of the clinical environment. but are the "normies" ready for this?

I've been in the scene roughly 15 years now and have had many social occurrences that lead me to form such an opinion (and by no means do I mean to toot my own boot, just a little background).

Anyway, hope I'm making a good call posting this here (open discussion). Look forward to hearing your opinions. Hope you get in on this Snozzleberry.

P.S. - Another relevant point is the future possible legalization of Psilocybin in Oregon in 2020...



Much Love,

HC
 
There will never come a moment where the use of psychedelics will be fully normalised and accepted.

There will always be incidents involving psychedelics, like teenagers who kill themselves, or behaving irresponsably in some way, that will be followed by public outrage and a call for action.

The pendulum will always keep on swinging backwards and forwards again.

When it swings your way...take advantage of it, because at some point it is going to swing the opposite direction again.

If you, like me, believe that psychedelics more often have a positive impact on the human psyche, than a negative impact, then it is important not to turn away from society and to try not to look down at people, but to let this positive impact through your presence in it, spill over into the society you live in.

Never let an opportunity to fill this world with love an compassion go by.
 
I don't think there is a debate for decriminalization of natural plants and mushrooms. That is a no brainer in my opinion. Criminalization has caused tremendous damage to society at many levels, we can get into the details if anyone has questions here. Even in the piece by Pollan he clearly states that decriminalization should be done. I think the title in that piece is misleading, by the way.

Now, legalization and regulation is a whole other topic. These are powerful substances. I think requiring a license after studying and passing a test makes sense, like we do with cars which are powerful things for different reasons. Something like that, but I understand the debate here is open ended at this point.
 
HolderChert said:
What keeps me on the fence is, it is true that many people can (and currently do) benefit from these beautiful resources (and that's an understatement) currently outside of the clinical environment. but are the "normies" ready for this?
Click to expand...
You think it's your, or someone else's, right to decide for the normies?
 
The drawbacks that come from the decriminalization are still less than the damages done by the drug war.

People who dont like to trip know to stay away from drugs. Just because they are no longer illegal doesnt mean everyone is gonna go chew down on magic mushrooms or peyote anytime soon. Its more just that the people who want to arent thrown into jail for such menial things.

It is true that more people are gonna be interested in such drugs if they dont have to worry about the law. But that doesnt mean its gonna all go bad.

And i also think most people are aware that these drugs are not like alcohol or weed.
Its just about education at this point. Get rid of DARE and replace it with education about the dangers/benefits of drugs.
 
Psychedelics being illegal is pretty upsetting considering shamanism is the oldest known form of religion and in the day an age we live in exploring different states of consciousness is forbidden.. it’s like a modern day witch hunt. I understand the need to ensure people don’t take these substances lightly but to say a regular person who does a simple extraction or eats a few plants so they can relax and explore their mind is a criminal or drug manufacturer is outrageous and completely oppressive. Most psychedelics are scheduled unfairly on the Dea drug list and they really shouldn’t even be on there. It’s ok though. The upcoming generations fact check everything and as younger minds move into political positions the propaganda that’s kept the negative image on psychedelics will fade away. Can’t wait for change.

Learn, share, expand :thumb_up:
 
I'm always open to the prospect of "authority" waking up. Visionary plant medicines, have been, and always will be gateway to human experiencing of myth-religion, religion-myth. The experience and alternate mental construct gifted via visionary plants(no free will, no separate self, tenseless pre-existing future...aka Fatalism) seems forever feral and authority challenging. Hence the advice to, "tune in and drop out". Nick Sand(RIP) expounds precious wisdom!

Peace
 
I can understand the reservation that society will go and ruin something as amazing and ancient as psychedelics. But regardless of those reservations I still think they (and really any drug) should be legal. Depending on the likelihood of harm from a particular drug should determine how its regulated. I don't think anyone should go to jail just from using drugs period.
 
It’s a money 💰 scheme same as seat belt tickets. If I’m endangering myself and only myself then I shouldn’t have the threat of the authorities locking me in a cage like an animal to make me work for free and pay ridiculous amounts of money for cheap commissary food, tickets and fines. While destroying my reputation and dragging my family through it all. Who’s really the bad guys.. us or them?.
 
I'd echo a lot of what's already been said, namely that nobody should be put in a cage for using psychedelics, or any drug, and that's the bottom line.

As for their potential cultural impact, I personally favor decriminalization over legalization at this point. I don't quite understand the concern about so-called "normies" experimenting with psychedelics, but I do have some reservations about how they'll be assimilated into existing institutions to reinforce cultural norms.

Organizations like MAPS, for example, have gained a lot of traction with research on MDMA by appealing to a deep-seated cultural attachment to militarism. Knowing it would look bad for opposition not to endorse something that could help the troops, it was a deliberate strategy by MAPS to present MDMA as an asset to the military. Or as another example, there was a thread here a little while back about news coverage of a Canadian cop who used ayahuasca to help treat his PTSD, and I thought that was interesting.

This isn't to say that cops or people in the military don't deserve relief from PTSD, of course they do. But I find it troubling how easy it is for these substances to be used in ways that make people comfortable taking part in violence after the fact, as opposed to challenging the systems that made those situations possible in the first place. Whether it's employees at tech start-ups that rely on extractive industries taking LSD to streamline profit, drone pilots who enroll in MDMA-assisted therapy to feel better about dropping bombs, or cops who "reset" at ayahuasca retreats just to come home and 'pacify' indigenous protests or round up homeless people, it feels like a tremendous waste of potential.

So as long as nobody continues to be locked up for their use, I would much rather see psychedelics remain more-or-less underground than to see them used in a way that just sugarcoats the status-quo.

That said, I also understand that a lot of people who might otherwise benefit from psychedelics would only feel comfortable trying them in a highly regulated and controlled setting, and that should of course be an option. I'm not sure that would be possible without legalization, which is the ideal goalpost, but I don't think we should jump at any and every opportunity to get closer to that goal without first seeing what kind of strings are attached. Otherwise I feel like we're just chasing a carrot that distracts us from what's actually happening in the world right now.
 
Too fast? No way!

We are just now barely at the beginning of playing catch up for exactly 50 years of ignorance and hysteria around these materials.

They've been here, and moar or less accessible, to anyone willing to put in the effort all along to be sure, but finally taking a sanctioned approach and allowing research, institutional, and most importantly, personal use is really the only sensible social approach to this topic.

They are not for everyone, there will be backlash. Just as some people should not drive cars or drink alcohol. A rational approach addresses the consequences and via education, evidence based social policies, and yes, moar than a little bit of trial and error, learns to integrate and understand best practices and risk management.

Ultimately, I think these experiences are a birthright. They are such an important and fundamental part of the human experience, the fact it's been denied to so many for so long is the truly criminal act. I understand wanting to protect the sanctity of something that has played such an important role in your life, but that attitude is outmoded and counter productive. Ready or not, the genie is out of the bottle. We've every one of us initiates of the school of hard knocks had to face this this thing directly and so will everyone that treads the trail we've blazed. Have a little faith in your fellow monkey, you probably weren't ready the first time you took that dose either. The normies will be just fine.
 
Praxis. said:
I'd echo a lot of what's already been said, namely that nobody should be put in a cage for using psychedelics, or any drug, and that's the bottom line.

As for their potential cultural impact, I personally favor decriminalization over legalization at this point. I don't quite understand the concern about so-called "normies" experimenting with psychedelics, but I do have some reservations about how they'll be assimilated into existing institutions to reinforce cultural norms.

Organizations like MAPS, for example, have gained a lot of traction with research on MDMA by appealing to a deep-seated cultural attachment to militarism. Knowing it would look bad for opposition not to endorse something that could help the troops, it was a deliberate strategy by MAPS to present MDMA as an asset to the military. Or as another example, there was a thread here a little while back about news coverage of a Canadian cop who used ayahuasca to help treat his PTSD, and I thought that was interesting.

This isn't to say that cops or people in the military don't deserve relief from PTSD, of course they do. But I find it troubling how easy it is for these substances to be used in ways that make people comfortable taking part in violence after the fact, as opposed to challenging the systems that made those situations possible in the first place. Whether it's employees at tech start-ups that rely on extractive industries taking LSD to streamline profit, drone pilots who enroll in MDMA-assisted therapy to feel better about dropping bombs, or cops who "reset" at ayahuasca retreats just to come home and 'pacify' indigenous protests or round up homeless people, it feels like a tremendous waste of potential.

So as long as nobody continues to be locked up for their use, I would much rather see psychedelics remain more-or-less underground than to see them used in a way that just sugarcoats the status-quo.

That said, I also understand that a lot of people who might otherwise benefit from psychedelics would only feel comfortable trying them in a highly regulated and controlled setting, and that should of course be an option. I'm not sure that would be possible without legalization, which is the ideal goalpost, but I don't think we should jump at any and every opportunity to get closer to that goal without first seeing what kind of strings are attached. Otherwise I feel like we're just chasing a carrot that distracts us from what's actually happening in the world right now.
Click to expand...
Even in those instances where psychedelics will be used with the intention of making us more productive from an economical or military point of view, some of their other potentials will gradually drip through into our world.

Maybe, using psychedelics for that purpose would even be the greatest gift to mankind in the end. Something like a spiritual trojan horse.
 
Ok. Thank you all for your input, it's very much appreciated...

I'm being too cautious. Whatever happens, whether it be negative or positive, must happen for the sake of our species.

It's such a trip to see this actually happening. After all these years of talking about it.





Much love

HC
 
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