Automatic mudras

[waitwhatwhere]

Hola Nexians,

I wanted to start a thread about automatic movement during DMT journeys. I'm not a full member yet, so I'll post it here. First, I've been reading here for awhile and haven't come across any threads discussing this at length, but if there are others, please redirect me here. That said, holy moly, last night was a doozy.

By way of introduction, I titled this post "Automatic mudras" because that's how I would identify the type of motion that seems to overtake me on stronger DMT experiences. For those who don't know, a mudra is a symbolic hand gesture that is part of Hindu and Buddist iconography, dance, and meditation. I learned about them because I had to find a name for what was happening to me.

I often begin my DMT trips sitting in lotus. If I don't start there, by the second or third round, that's where I end up, extending my spine and rooting down. It's just what feels correct to me. As the hyperspace reality blooms in my mind, my hands usually at least drift into prayer. On some trips, I'll hold prayer for the whole time, or find myself resting in a single mudra for the duration. Sticking out your arm and holding it motionless in a single pose for 10-15 minutes isn't the most comfortable thing in the world normally, but on DMT it seems to be the natural thing to do.

On stronger trips (hello, last night!), I don't remain motionless, instead tracing circles around me, fluidly slashing angles, until everything flows into a powerful, seemingly choreographed arm-dance, complete with hand and finger gestures, flashing and winking all the while. Obviously, visual experiences during these times is rich. The motions feel unconscious, in fact they feel almost channeled. These descriptions don't even scratch the surface of the associated visions that accompany these "automatic mudras' but before getting lost in all that, let us focus on automatic or unconscious movements for the purposes of discussion in this post.

So yeah, anybody else get this?

 

[Global]

I get this all the time. I can even get it without DMT now, but DMT is like training wheels for energy work tricycles. The stances just feel right, as you said. They are often times symmetrical, and not usually replicable with the kind of precision and accuracy that accompany the energy assisted postures. When there's music playing - particularly one with a groove - it can easily create relative oscillations in the body.

When not on DMT, I can create the automatic motions most easily during meditative-like endeavors where if I bring my hands together, and focus on the space in between them and start breathing in and out, they will slowly, but with increasing momentum and complexity, start moving towards and away from each other. When they gain enough momentum they ultimately get pushed out and upward, eventually scooping up above my head, going through some spiral gestures above the head before finally coming straight down back to the start position, sometimes stopping first around the heart. It's my feeling that if you're doing it "right" you should have no control over it really, and you just just be letting the energy guide your motions.

In the Nexus e-zine, in the last part of my essay, I go into some deep detail regarding some of my history with this energetic phenomenon and the verification of the existence (but not function) of my chakras.

 

[hardboiled]

Happened to me once so far (mushroom trip) and it was spectacular since it took me by surprise. With each mudra that i/it made i could see, feel, hear and understand what it represents. I was so focused on my hands and my hands had only dim outline to them and i could see trough them and all i could see is stars, planets, galaxy's....Universe.
Then i/it spoke ˝I am light˝ and light manifested in my hands while making this fluid and intricate motions and again i/it said ˝i am sound˝ and i started making ˝singing˝ kind of noises with my mouth and it all came together to form this incredible ˝something˝ which i can't remember since i kinda went :shock: blank...

Still gives me shivers when i think about it and it's been more than one year ago.:!:

ps. Definitely have to check out your essay on this Global.

 

[null24]

Me too. I read something once that complex movements like that can be a sign of "illness"or an energy blockage, and the movements help to create a meter flow of your subtle energy. This takes place in a kundalini-awakened state-like a dmt flash.

I've taken to yoga-like postures and Taichi y type movements before I enter hyperspace, it seems to open some of those channels and helps me be more physically calm in hyperspace. Sometimes it can get pretty exhausting !

 

[waitwhatwhere]

I get this all the time. I can even get it without DMT now, but DMT is like training wheels for energy work tricycles. The stances just feel right, as you said. They are often times symmetrical, and not usually replicable with the kind of precision and accuracy that accompany the energy assisted postures. When there's music playing - particularly one with a groove - it can easily create relative oscillations in the body.

When not on DMT, I can create the automatic motions most easily during meditative-like endeavors where if I bring my hands together, and focus on the space in between them and start breathing in and out, they will slowly, but with increasing momentum and complexity, start moving towards and away from each other. When they gain enough momentum they ultimately get pushed out and upward, eventually scooping up above my head, going through some spiral gestures above the head before finally coming straight down back to the start position, sometimes stopping first around the heart. It's my feeling that if you're doing it "right" you should have no control over it really, and you just just be letting the energy guide your motions.

In the Nexus e-zine, in the last part of my essay, I go into some deep detail regarding some of my history with this energetic phenomenon and the verification of the existence (but not function) of my chakras.

Hey Global,

Thanks for directing my to your E-Zine article, I read it and you make a lot of good points--especially about the relativity of reality. I like that idea because then we could reasonably derive a scale, something like: totally unreal, not real, kinda real, Real, really real, hyper-real, and zomg totally real Also with regard to your E-Zine article, I've had a number of what seemed to me to be separate full-blown chakra opening experiences, heart, third-eye, and crown. I was writing a post on those a few weeks back and then got busy. I began reading about Kundalini after the crown chakra opening and found a fruitful batch of metaphors to categorize my experience.

Since I have a moment, I can attempt to describe last night's experience. As the effects of that last over-the-rainbow hit took hold, my head lolled in circles. After centering in clasped hands, they started to wander. Eventually, my hand motions started in little circles at my knees and quickly moved into a storm of gesture around my torso. The motions were symmetrical of a kind, balanced is a better word, although at times one arm would shake, attenuating the energy, while the other would gesture. At one point I had a moment where I felt some darker energy attempt to catch me off-guard and send my motions spinning out of control. I was able to easily recenter and continue careening off the pulsating flow of the universe, feeling like some kind of wise and potent deva or bodhisattva incarnation. Eventually I ended up in cruciform, arms extended out, head back as a cluster of eyes, both biological and camera, poured down my throat or being (not sure which, let's go with being). Then I kind of shook and swayed for a while. Somewhere in there, I was gobsmacked by a vision of the universe with a double-staff caduceus spanning the planes of reality. Afterward, a friend sitting across (also partaking of DMT) said that I had six-arms and a third eye before I had conveyed anything about my experience, for what it's worth.


Glad to see other accounts--keep them coming! :thumb_up: I think it's really interesting to hear other people's experiences with movement on DMT, given that we hear more frequently about the motionless dream state in which the body is left.

 

[waitwhatwhere]

Happened to me once so far (mushroom trip) and it was spectacular since it took me by surprise. With each mudra that i/it made i could see, feel, hear and understand what it represents. I was so focused on my hands and my hands had only dim outline to them and i could see trough them and all i could see is stars, planets, galaxy's....Universe.
Then i/it spoke ˝I am light˝ and light manifested in my hands while making this fluid and intricate motions and again i/it said ˝i am sound˝ and i started making ˝singing˝ kind of noises with my mouth and it all came together to form this incredible ˝something˝ which i can't remember since i kinda went :shock: blank...

Still gives me shivers when i think about it and it's been more than one year ago.:!:

ps. Definitely have to check out your essay on this Global.

Hardboiled, that sounds incredible. Our little fungal masters have taught me a lot about movement, although I haven't experienced any mudras using them. I had my first third eye opening under the their mycelial tutelage. I would argue that was my first visit to hyperspace. I mean, it ain't called 4-OH-DMT for nothin'! Interesting how each mudra was named...have you looked into any of the named mudras from asian tradition?

 

[Synkromystic]

I get the ''automatic'' movements as well. After experiencing them off and on for about 3 1/2 years with music, and without music, I am nearly convinced that they are among other things, helping to unwind and often times rebuild my energetic bodies. They do seem to be removing blockages in my energetic field. I agree completely with you null24.

I have developed very unique styles (or so I think) of dancing after experiencing changa with Fullon Psytrance music. It first started at a psytrance festival in 2010, in an unconsciously perfect timed event. Hence my name Synkromystic (using this name because I Lost access to my other account SynchroMystic!). I could feel the music inside me, inside every cell of my body, and it started making me move effortlessly, guiding me. It almost seems now like there is a grid, and my movements coincide with the grid or grids. I get the intuition that I am slowly moving out of one grid, and into another. I believe there to be many ''grids'' or matrices that support this reality. So it's not moving out of this reality, but moving into a different ''support system'' for my bodies to hold on to while still being able to interact here with everybody else. For me its not so much about travelling outside my body, but more about being in my body. I believe full blown out of body experiences are necessary for me, but only so much as to connect to different levels so that my ''normal''(lol) awareness can be granted access easier.

The movements can often times be recreated sober, as I do love dancing into a trance sober, but there is an element or 2 that is lacking, as well as my body feeling much much heavier.

On another side note, it does seem to me that songs, but especially certain Psy Trance songs, are 'channelled' so to speak. That there exists in innumerable amounts of information, and under the correct circumstances that information can be transferred, and thus automatic movements play a very important role in that process. And this is why I am trying and trying to rebuild myself physically, mentally, and emotionally, so that I am a better receiver/transmitter of this energy

Oh, I am fairly certain I have encountered some of the entities that are responsible for some of this music and for helping create the automatic movements, thus guiding us. To me they have been represented as bits of code. Inorganic creatures that can exist inside of everything and their ''bodies'' are so expansive it boggles the mind. I consider them SUPER computers.

Sorry for digressing and derailing the thread a bit.

 

[Synkromystic]

Oh one more thing..for now

My last out of body experience I had very contorting automatic movements. I noticed it as I was coming back into my body, and then I would flash out again through countless layers of the multiverse, back and forth...... When I was fully back in my body I received a message. Basically it said: Movement is the key to life. Move, and it's much much more difficult for anything new to latch onto your energetic fields. Move and thrive, still and die. (now this could just be a lesson needed for me at this point in my life, and not for everyone...and I am also speaking mostly about the physical body, as I do understand having a quiet mind, under control of your pure awareness is key!). I have not been getting enough physical exercise recently, and have really paid the price, and with some physical ailments, being Iron deficient because I was vegan for 2 years without being fully aware of what I needed to do to take care of myself, and having serious insulin problems because of my horrible eating habits for 10 years..... and too many more to name....

So for me movement in all aspects is one of the main ingredients in switching grids, residing in a place, closer to home where interdimensional energetic parasites cannot survive. The ones that have influenced me to make some ''bad'' decisions in my life. But I don't hold it against them. They were necessary, and apparently still are, to help me learn and evolve. I've got much more to say about this, maybe I will start a new thread!!

Once again, sorry for derailing the thread a bit, but it seemed like a good place to throw in a little background info about myself in relation to the movements.

 

[null24]

While the automatic mudras feel like a dance of sorts, albeit on marionette strings, I often also experience a "pulsing" in my arms. I can feel it in my forearm, primarily, and coinciding with that pulse,a finger will twitch, or sometimes a spot on the underside of my wrist will sort of throb along with it. It feels "electric"in a way, but not in a hit-my-funny-bone way.(that's a technical term you may want to look up :roll: )

I've put it down to some more serious "chi" blockage, since the manifestation is more like a muscle twitch. It is not though, the places on my body where it happens are not right fir that and I've never felt the sensation other than on hyperspace. I know it's not hallucination.

Anyone else have these? I'm not trying to hijack, but thought that two may be related, and relevant, since the two motions seem to come from the same place, that's just from my intuition though.

 

[hardboiled]

Hardboiled, that sounds incredible. Our little fungal masters have taught me a lot about movement, although I haven't experienced any mudras using them. I had my first third eye opening under the their mycelial tutelage. I would argue that was my first visit to hyperspace. I mean, it ain't called 4-OH-DMT for nothin'! Interesting how each mudra was named...have you looked into any of the named mudras from asian tradition?

I have looked how mudras look but what i can recollect from that trip is different.:? First the moving was fast there were no separate hand positions/movement. It involved my both hands touching each other and morphing from one position to another almost without any noticeable transition (hope that makes sense) and a lot of finger intertwining.
One looked similar to this and i know this is not any official mudra that i know of - http://images.colourbox.com/thumb_COLOURBOX2784731.jpg :?:
But don't take this as 100% since like i said when that light and sound came together with my hand motion and ˝something˝ manifested out of it i went blank and cannot recollect what was being understood, shown etc.:lol:
Yeah mushrooms are powerful tool/teacher/friend.:!: I also had my third eye opened in my first big dose trip and also experienced brief OBE and waking up in to ˝IT˝.

 

[Infectedstyle]

My first mushroom trip involved automatic movement and singing that was akin to stereotype egyptian dancing. And some weird singing that is strangely remiscent of pink floyd, mainly syd barret. I would move my arms in the traditional egyptian fashion (you know what i'm talking about). And all this would be akin to a revelatory dance of which the ancients knew. I just can't for the life of me replicate the rythm or the dance. Both where associatory processes.

A few years ago I had a dream of activating my chakras and automatically making mudras whilist synchronistically floating into the clouds. Was a very symbolic and very special dream.

My thoughts,

I think what we are looking at is a global process. Very very interesting to hear you talk about this Multi-eyed creature. To give you some background info, i had a snake-like entity sucked out of me from my mouth into some kind of organic spaceship.

Well, a few months ago i was invited by a bunch of hyperspatial entities who all formed a Rainbow pattern to meet the last entity on the Rainbow. I have met him before and never trusted it. When i asked it intention it clearly stated that it wants to Eat me and channel itself through me. Ofcourse i was scared out of my wits by then and calmly refused. Reminescent of automatic movement here is that my spine automatically and forcefully was straightened allowing some kind of beam of energy to pass through it from my crown into my ass. The entity that asked for a channeling was a Multi-coloured Multi-eyed beast-like entity. Kind of like.. The beast, from the bible.

Just a few days ago something even weirder happened. I'm not sure if normal break-through. But i smoked what I think was a monster-hit. Quite possibly 50-100mg and ordinary patterns and programs exploded completely and what gave way was an incomplete falling apart of my ordinary human body. It gave way to a sort of hell-like realm and instead of veins i was having snakes travel through my arms along with a vortex feeling in my stomach. Honestly, the COLDness of that place makes me think it is akin to falling into a black hole. If that is not strange enough here comes the automatic movement again, my arms positioned itself near my head like the expression of extreme fright or shock. I found something akin to this position is used in ancient tibetan yoga to exorcize demons, btw.

Oh, i was reminded of some ancient kaballah practice. For my throat chakra is described in kabbalah as the medium for multidimensional travel and my throat literally seperated into two parts giving way for this entire blackhole endaevour.

I'm not sure if this is normal amongst experienced DMT voyagers. I have never actually broken through to meet angellic beings or anything. Some kind of computer-like entities. Yes. But never organic or any cryogenic black hole. Never have i felt cold or warmth in hyperspace. Anyway.. To conclude my story. (lol).. This Multi-eyed being expressed that it could forcefully "Eat me and channel through my body". Rings a bell?

While the automatic mudras feel like a dance of sorts, albeit on marionette strings, I often also experience a "pulsing" in my arms. I can feel it in my forearm, primarily, and coinciding with that pulse,a finger will twitch, or sometimes a spot on the underside of my wrist will sort of throb along with it. It feels "electric"in a way, but not in a hit-my-funny-bone way.(that's a technical term you may want to look up :roll: )

I've put it down to some more serious "chi" blockage, since the manifestation is more like a muscle twitch. It is not though, the places on my body where it happens are not right fir that and I've never felt the sensation other than on hyperspace. I know it's not hallucination.

Anyone else have these? I'm not trying to hijack, but thought that two may be related, and relevant, since the two motions seem to come from the same place, that's just from my intuition though.

I feel a throbbing in or near the arterio in my neck whilist on dmt. It also happens sometimes while not on dmt. I also think they are related. Some of these mudras are great for blood circulation.

I also am considering serious Chi blockage. I am working on straightening my spine and have even concluded that dmt is stuck somewhere in my spine. Because sometimes when i straighten up my spine i start to taste dmt in my mouth. Guess there is some truth to the myth?

Maybe my earlier write-up helped clarify some of the things you experience? I have read your post about a 2 hour (think it was acacia?) trip.. I can relate to it as well. I have had something happen in my body where something "thanked" me as well and i can't for the life of me figure out why.

"Must shut up now"... Thanks for tuning into my thoughts. Hope i'm not derailing!
I am going to read the E-zine and see if i can find Global's article.


EDIT: Oh, I thought it was very interesting to know that Synchromystic has been a vegan for so long for even my dreams and my entire lifestyle is taking a more minimalistic and vegetarian approach to try and cope with taking more psychedelics and traveling out of body. I thought it is an interesting note that vegans seem to be more inclined to have OBEs and hyperdimensional travels.

Ofcourse, one must still eat healthy. Perhaps certain mushrooms are a good source of B12 etc. to replace meat? I had a dream which seemed to indicate such a thing for me.

 

[waitwhatwhere]

What a fun thread.

First, to all you would-be-thread-jackers , I’m most interested in movement during DMT trips—automatic and/or "unconscious".

I’d love to talk about all the crazy ways I’ve danced and moved and channeled on mushrooms, LSD and other allies, but we’d be here a long time. You get me started on psytrance, Synkromystic, and we’ll be here forever.:d

Yet it’s all interesting! And since I can’t help but relate my DMT movements to experiences of automatic movement on other molecules to help myself get a grip on the topic, it seems silly to limit others—Let’s just try and tie it back to the main topic if we can and we might all learn from each other.

Infectedstyle: Very interesting. I’ll have to respond a little later—there’s a lot to unpack here.

 

[۩]

I've said this before but I will say it one more time just for kicks.

I have a friend who smoked spice, and with no prior experience, started breakdancing and even did a solid head spin during a gathering in celebration of Beltane.

 

[Synkromystic]

What a fun thread.

I’d love to talk about all the crazy ways I’ve danced and moved and channeled on mushrooms, LSD and other allies, but we’d be here a long time. You get me started on psytrance, Synkromystic, and we’ll be here forever.:d

I'm fine with forever. About to listen to ajja while on psylocybin Let's see where it goes:shock:

 

[Infectedstyle]

I've said this before but I will say it one more time just for kicks.

I have a friend who smoked spice, and with no prior experience, started breakdancing and even did a solid head spin during a gathering in celebration of Beltane.

Hawly sheit that is awesome! :surprised
Btw love ur avatar. So pretty.

Sound like an old man here (21..) but i remember Terence used to make silly raves about breakdancing and it's novelty factor. Those head spins are truly an evolutionary high-point. No mammal has ever performed those moves on a billion years old earth. :lol:

So.. to get back on topic. I wonder if those mudras are a form of communication, a language of sorts. Or if they have more to do with energy circulation. Or both. I think they might form some kind of connection with archeic states of mind? A way for the soul to remember. Sounds good to me. :?

Synchromystic, have a good trip. Hehehe

 

[waitwhatwhere]

Well, a few months ago i was invited by a bunch of hyperspatial entities who all formed a Rainbow pattern to meet the last entity on the Rainbow. I have met him before and never trusted it. When i asked it intention it clearly stated that it wants to Eat me and channel itself through me. Ofcourse i was scared out of my wits by then and calmly refused. Reminescent of automatic movement here is that my spine automatically and forcefully was straightened allowing some kind of beam of energy to pass through it from my crown into my ass. The entity that asked for a channeling was a Multi-coloured Multi-eyed beast-like entity. Kind of like.. The beast, from the bible.

A rooting down and straightening of the spine is something that happens to me nearly ever time. It's one of the first things I noticed on my first strong (smoked) DMT trips.

I had an experience recently with a kinda fun rainbow 666 presenting itself to me when I mused to myself how I could communicate the vast ROYGBIV knot-work that unfolded before me. I was raised secular and don't really get down with the bible all that much, so I interpreted as a playful gesture.

I've gotten eyes for years.

It gave way to a sort of hell-like realm and instead of veins i was having snakes travel through my arms along with a vortex feeling in my stomach. Honestly, the COLDness of that place makes me think it is akin to falling into a black hole. If that is not strange enough here comes the automatic movement again, my arms positioned itself near my head like the expression of extreme fright or shock. I found something akin to this position is used in ancient tibetan yoga to exorcize demons, btw.

There are so many hell-like realms. Sometimes I think they intersect with consensus reality more often than we think. I can picture your posture. This is what I'm talking about, the strange positioning of the body in a manner reflective of the experience unfolding in hyperspace. Personally, I experience few open-eyed visualizations, so I experience the movements of my body while traveling as a kind of bifurcation of my awareness, at minimum.

A tibetan connection, eh?

Oh, i was reminded of some ancient kaballah practice. For my throat chakra is described in kabbalah as the medium for multidimensional travel and my throat literally seperated into two parts giving way for this entire blackhole endaevour.

Fascinating.

I'm not sure if this is normal amongst experienced DMT voyagers. I have never actually broken through to meet angellic beings or anything. Some kind of computer-like entities. Yes. But never organic or any cryogenic black hole. Never have i felt cold or warmth in hyperspace. Anyway.. To conclude my story. (lol).. This Multi-eyed being expressed that it could forcefully "Eat me and channel through my body". Rings a bell?

Come to think of it, I can't recall an experience of "temperature" while traveling before. I didn't feel eaten, but I most definitely felt as though my being/body/self was being channeled through at that moment with the dripping cluster of biological and robotic eyes. That feeling was specifically expressed while my arms were outstretched, my head back with mouth open, while sitting in lotus, shuttering with the force of the download.

 

[waitwhatwhere]

I've said this before but I will say it one more time just for kicks.

I have a friend who smoked spice, and with no prior experience, started breakdancing and even did a solid head spin during a gathering in celebration of Beltane.

That's amazing. I believe it, too.

 

[waitwhatwhere]

So.. to get back on topic. I wonder if those mudras are a form of communication, a language of sorts. Or if they have more to do with energy circulation. Or both. I think they might form some kind of connection with archeic states of mind? A way for the soul to remember. Sounds good to me.

That's what I've been wondering. I mean, the ineffable beauty/horror of the visions that are presented are one thing, but the moving of the body in specific ways, position, form, flow: that's a whole other manner of expression. I am fond of the Eastern tradition in many things, particularly in their denial of any separation between the body and the mind.

 

[Global]

I've experienced temperature in hyperspace. Sometimes it can make me cold and shiver, but also, the same energy that can create automatic motions is sometimes (but not always) packed with a heat content as well where it is explicitly clear that a particular "package" or mass of energy is incredibly warm to the touch.