Ayahuasca and mental health?

[AwesomeUsername]

Hello all,

I have been struggling to understand how ayahuasca impacts mental health.

As I have been interested in that topic I found couple of articles that state it could go either way.

My belief in the past was that it might be beneficial, SWIM was so convinced in this that he kept trying pretty much to this date, and he imagines that he will continue to do so on occasion.

What SWIM also realized is that after his trips, which feel profound in the moment leave him pretty much neutral after he sobers up.

So basically no integration, no mood boost or drop, the same as before.

I was wondering, why is that?

SWIM enjoys tripping, but no afterglow is a bit disappointing.

Could somebody pull some studies that show if it provides backed up benefits or harm?

Are there even studies that look into the effects on mood, cognitive effects and other mental changes (or lack of) from repeated administration?

 

[L-dreamer]

Most of the literature supports the idea that regular use leads to lower neuroticism. I could be fancier than that but I will just post a picture and be done with it. Studies will never be done on extreme dosages of DMT/Aya/Pharmahuasca, but online reports of trainwreck trips show that at some point you play with psychosis and may end up in an mental health institution because of it.

Most users greatly overestimate it's effects and give it mystical value. The ayahuasca reddit is a toilet of mental delusion for example. If something is touted as a cure for everything, be it drug, personality cult, political ideology, stay away from it.

 

[Sakkadelic]

I think the effects on mental health are not just the immediate effect, like you are saying afterglow and mood boost.

MAOIs are proven to be effective antidepressants. I personally benefited from that.

I think ayahuasca, dmt, harmalas and psychedelics in general helped make me a more resilient person and able to manage my mental health. Going through an intense psychedelic experience puts everything else in perspective.

There's no need to do it repeatedly, and I think approaching it as a medicine, in the sense that if one feels ill they consume the medicine to heal and feel better, is not a very healthy approach.

 

[dreamer042]

A couple of studies have been done on Santo Daime members showing some positive results in this area.

Santos, RG dos, et al. "Effects of ayahuasca on psychometric measures of anxiety, panic-like and hopelessness in Santo Daime members." Journal of ethnopharmacology 112.3 (2007): 507-513.

Bouso, José Carlos, et al. "Long-term effects of the ritual use of Ayahuasca on mental health." The internationalization of Ayahuasca. 2011.

 

[dragonrider]

Most of the literature supports the idea that regular use leads to lower neuroticism. I could be fancier than that but I will just post a picture and be done with it. Studies will never be done on extreme dosages of DMT/Aya/Pharmahuasca, but online reports of trainwreck trips show that at some point you play with psychosis and may end up in an mental health institution because of it.

Most users greatly overestimate it's effects and give it mystical value. The ayahuasca reddit is a toilet of mental delusion for example. If something is touted as a cure for everything, be it drug, personality cult, political ideology, stay away from it.

It is probably the context or set and setting that plays a key role here as well.

This may be an impopular opinion, but i believe that responsible use of psychedelics requires a lot of discipline. You have to be willing to be a little tough on yourself sometimes, physically as well as mentally. Sometimes "go with the flow" is good advice, but sometimes it realy isn't.

People often use "spirituality" as an excuse to escape from all of the ordinary things in life that aren't particularly pleasant. But we all have duties in life, we all have some work to do.
And that isn't always fun, but it ís an integral part of what life, and being a part of a community, is.

And we all need to be a part of a community as well. We are a social animal. Without others we are nothing.

The santo daime, uño de vegetal and native american church are communities. Communities that ground people in the realities of life. Communities where people care for eachother.

Just taking a drug itself can never compare to taking it in such a context.

 

[ShadedSelf]

In my experience psychedelics can fail to stablish any sort of long term effect, which is not to say they are not useful.
There could also be an endless list of variables at play here, be it lack of intention, purposeful meditation and integration, your self telling you that this is not where your specific journey has to go right now... you name it.

Regardless of my personal experience or scientific papers, sounds like your experience is that there is basically no change after the fact, be it negative or positive.
If what you are looking for is sustainable, long term mental health "glow", Id recommend meditation.

 

[Tomtegubbe]

People often use "spirituality" as an excuse to escape from all of the ordinary things in life that aren't particularly pleasant. But we all have duties in life, we all have some work to do.
And that isn't always fun, but it ís an integral part of what life, and being a part of a community, is.

This. Spirituality, including psychedelics use, is not about escaping the ordinary challenges of life but rather learning to live wisely and harmoniously with your self and surroundings. This ordinary waking life is the greatest trip you'll ever have, with all the ups and downs. It provides great opportunities to learn and experience. Any substance use or so called spiritual practice (many conventional forms of religion included) that offers an escape from this greatly overlooks what gift we are given when given the opportunity to be born as humans. Life is not easy, and it's not meant to be easy, but the rewards that come with the challenges are well worth the struggle if you can take that attitude. Healthy spirituality including psychedelic spirituality can provide us with more wholesome and ways of looking, but it is the change that happens in oneself that is the key.

 

[navegandouniversos]

Hi,

This thread touches me directly memories of conversations with a very dear friend, who eventually began to ask me what sense it made to continue taking ayahuaska, or smoking dmt ,,,, if it is always the same, since his experiences as he said, were the same .. (and I could not believe my ears!), and as our companions have mentioned here. there are several personal factors that make the experience itself, beyond the physiological effects that the medicine contains.

In my personal case, Ayahuaska is synonymous of good mental health, clarity and humility, always as a result of a search and not as a simple gift for venturing into the cosmos... (although, in the search itself, there has been deep navigation, with all that it implies to navigate the depths of one's own being)....

Hugs

 

[Falcata]

I'm going to give my personal opinion, biased by my own experiences, without a scientific basis or study backed up.

In my case, DMT helped me treat chronic depression "in the terminal phase", so to speak. There are two types of change, a progressive one that we all know and drastic changes. Mine was of the second type, a lot of people around me were asking me. What happened, you look like a different person, you're calm, you even speak in a different way.

After that and doing a learning tour, I started to do initiations, just as they did with me, for free. I wanted to help others just as this substance had helped me. Each person may have their own motivations for making use of psychedelics, but I differentiate between two large groups.

1) People who have tried all kinds of remedies, visited different psychologists where each one has given a different diagnosis and tried a thousand treatments and none of them have worked. And autonomously, without anyone trying to convince them, they have approached treatment with psychedelics.

2) People who want to try new things, who want to know what it's like to have "a psychedelic experience" or people who have been convinced by others that this therapy will work for them.

With the first group, who have already researched on their own how psychedelics work and have something inside them that tells them "you have to heal yourself", psychedelic therapy usually works a radical change in them. And they tend to reach high depths on their travels.

With the second group, either one or two feedings are enough to satiate their desire for new experiences, and if they are people with problems who have been convinced, they tend to have counterproductive experiences.

The most important thing is integration, as we explain to ourselves what has happened. And this is where the facilitator comes into play, the advice that is given to the person for this.

I think one of the most important benefits would be:

1) In people with depression, as was my case, a simple mild experience already shows benefits, because in a mind full of darkness, suddenly facing the light and beauty that unfolds within you, created by you, in your own mind, already acts as a lever, for change to occur.

2) We have a thing called the "default neural network," let's say, that if you're afraid of spiders, every time you see a spider and you feel scared, that neural channel is reinforced. And so with other attitudes and personality traits, all that makes us "be us" is that default neural network. When we are under the effects of a psychedelic, it is as if all the channels are available, I remember reading an article where it said that normally we have parts in the brain that work separately and under the effects of a psychedelic those kind of barriers, they disappeared. Allowing us to "think outside the box."

But it all depends on the integration capacity of each person, many do not need any external help, but there are other cases that a specialized team should help and support to make the change happen.

This study I think speaks to brain interconnectivity using DMT.

 

[Jees]

Adding another angle: for the sake of "flexibility" mainly.

In the body, stretching, yoga, tai-chi, etc... when making a movement you CAN ask yourself why exactly this or that move, some originate in martial arts, some originate in medical benefits (Chinese traditional medicine),...
But core is that one makes the movement. Pondering about it or finding reasons is not necessary for the movement to help evade stagnation of the body. If you stretch arms to the sky, there's nothing really there to grasp. There is no need for something to grab up high, it's the movement that counts. The leaving of a fixed position situation. The accessing of a different perspective, and back. There is no NEED for this different perspective to deliver a message or meaning. It just works for not getting stuck.

I've considered working with plants as such (also the reason for my interest) is a perspective shift and back. It works for not getting stuck in a one position perspective. Words like mysticism, esoteric, shamanism, soul liberation, healing, what-do-I-get-by-it, it's-all-escapism, ... all those I do have (it's hard to shut up the mind) but are actually not so relevant if you want, just like trying to interpreet a yoga exercise stretching arms up. Just make the movement so you don't get stuck. You can make movements quite zen, they still work.

Just as some people should NOT do certain physical exercises, some might be better not doing certain plant-exercises. Not all perspective shifts are good for all just to mind and respect ones limitations.

2 cents.

 

[dithyramb]

That's a resonant 2 cents with me, Jees.