Ayahuasca retreats and the Peter Aziz story

[Amaxxx]

Hi, I'm a newbie, and unfortunately can't yet make any contribution directly to a discussion thread, so I'll add some thoughts here.

Last week, for the first time therefore setting a case law precedence an individual in the UK was jailed for making/selling Ayahuasca. See: 'Shaman' Peter Aziz jailed over psychedelic drug drink

In the threads people criticise Peter Aziz as being money grabbing and an idiot. The only stupid thing he did was to mention (and get caught on camera) that Ayahuasca could possibly cure cancer. We all know how the media can twist the truth, so who can tell how the rest of the conversation went exactly.

I don't know Peter Aziz, but I have personally been to more than two private retreats in the UK this year for 4-day 'tea ceremonies' where there were over 25 people, including 'helpers' at a ratio of better than 1:4. No-one claimed to be a shaman, but the helpers were very very experienced and very loving and compassionate. Everyone was well informed before the events - mostly self-learnt like readers of this forum are - but material had been distributed beforehand about the need to change ones diet well before the event and what foods and medication couldn't be consumed in the run-up to, or during, the 'tea ceremonies'.

The 'tea ceremonies' I attended were beautiful, enlightening and the friendships that I made have been cemented in real-life afterwards.

The cost was approximately £100 (british pounds, about $160) a day on average per person. Quite reasonable when you consider that we also did a lot of Yoga work and it included food and accommodation.

The cost of flying to Peru is prohibitive for most people, so please get real! It has been wonderful being able to take Ayahuasca in a totally safe environment for a relatively small outlay close by geographically. The people running the retreats are doing this to earn a living, yes, but not to profit. There is a a lot to do to prepare for a successful retreat for 4-days, and the helpers don't come free either!

Ayahuasca is a 'devine plant' drink. It differs from smoking DMT in the way that it seems to help the individual in a lot of very profound and deep ways. Even more bizarre, when compared to any other so called recreational drugs, changes seem to be permanent. Personally I've lost interest in eating meat, drinking more than 1 or 2 glasses of alcohol, and taking other recreational drugs for pure simple hedonistic fun purposes. The biggest permanent change for me is that I can now 'feel the love' of the world. What a gift!

I know that two of the major UK newspapers sent their reporters to spy on the Ayahuasca retreats so that they could get a 'scoop' story and do a front-page splash with headlines saying 'Hippies take deadly hallucinogenic DMT in cult party...' or similar. Both reporters, sent at different times, came back and wrote pieces for their newspapers that praised Ayahuasca and the people.

They just could not bring themselves to write a damaging story because they found themselves permanently changed too!

One of the reporters has become a firm advocate of Ayahuasca now. When the Peter Aziz story broke I made the flippant comment "well the Doctor that attended the ceremony and who snitched to the Police couldn't have taken the Ayahuasca could've he?". My personal opinion is that he would never have followed through with the story and the incrimination of Peter Aziz if he had.

Unfortunately we now have a case law situation in the UK with Ayahuasca and retreats will have to head underground completely. How sad is that when it is obvious to everyone who has ever taken the 'divine plant medicine' that it should be mandatory for every politician and career soldier to take it before taking office!

 

[tele]

OK...?

Even if that's your 2cents on the subject, it still doesn't make it totally acceptable to ask for such prices for a drink almost anyone can learn to boil.

Can you send us a link for the articles of this?:

Both reporters, sent at different times, came back and wrote pieces for their newspapers that praised Ayahuasca and the people.

---

This kind of opinions are unnecessary to post here IMO because DMT can be much more than it is to you, for other people.:

It differs from smoking DMT in the way that it seems to help the individual in a lot of very profound and deep ways.

So you think if that's your experience it is true? LOL remember that everyone's different with different experiences!

Ask for anyone here, how many profound and deep "helps" have they got from smoking DMT?
I've certainly had my share of "help"

 

[christian]

Unfortunately we now have a case law situation in the UK with Ayahuasca and retreats will have to head underground completely. How sad is that!

Indeed, it IS sad, that because of the actions of potty Aziz, that this MAY now be the case......:x

>>Bring forth the CAAPI TRUNCHEON!! :shock: :lol: :lol: :lol:

 

[tele]

Unfortunately we now have a case law situation in the UK with Ayahuasca and retreats will have to head underground completely. How sad is that!

Indeed, it IS sad, that because of the actions of potty Aziz, that this MAY now be the case......:x

>>Bring forth the CAAPI TRUNCHEON!! :shock: :lol: :lol: :lol:

100x 15 cm !!!

 

[Amaxxx]

This was the story that was prepared for publication in one of the UK top newspapers. The editor decided not to print. I have edited a couple of sentences where the location of the retreats could be guessed and which currently might not be too smart for the individuals involved.

"For years I’ve had a secret fantasy. I want to be Bruce Parry, that bloke of the telly who seems to have the most incredible adventures in such exotic locations with remote tribes across the world. I guess we all want a little adventure in our lives.

Whilst engaging in some armchair travel, watching his Amazon series, my interest peaked when I heard of a “mystical tea” called Ayahuasca.

Sure I’d much rather be travelling deep into the Amazon Rainforest to try Ayahuasca but I couldn’t afford that, either financially or in terms of my carbon footprint. So my journey took me to the xxxxx valley in deepest, darkest xxxxx, just west of xxxxx. The only thing I know about xxxxx is that the football team is owned by xxxxx. I was a little worried about the authenticity of the experience.

Arriving at the retreat centre, I was introduced to the other participants, a statistician from Scotland, a yoga teacher from London and an arts administrator from the Midlands amongst them. About half had experienced the tea before but thankfully I wasn’t the only virgin. There were to be a total of 12 “drinkers”. Most people came alone, however there were a few friends taking the experience together. Everyone was very friendly although some a little anxious about the upcoming ceremony, including myself. I was surprised that there were only two women taking part.

The history of Ayahuasca (also called Yage), is traceable to 1851, when the Victorian explorer and botanist Richard Spruce encountered the use of this intoxicating drink among the Tukano Indians in Brasil. Author and Drugs Historian, Mike Jay is curator of an exhibition at The Welcome Foundation (London) called “High Society” exploring Ayahuasca and drug use across cultures and history. He’s been working through much of the work of Spruce and noted that the only recorded effect was “the strong inclination to vomit”. There is archaeological evidence in the form of the earliest pipe ever found, a carved Jaguar bone which contained a residue of DMT. This chillum has been carbon dated to 2000 BC.

In the garden, a white canopy provided shelter from the elements and a splendid view across the xxxxx. xxxxx is a stunningly beautiful place particularly when well away from the thousands of tourists crowding the waterways. Under the open sided marquee, were 12 beds (all pointing to the altar in the centre), each complete with a sick bucket. Ayahuasca is known for its purging properties. This purge is also proven to remove intestinal parasites and is one of the things it’s used for in a tribal setting but its main use is as a spiritual sacrament to induce visions and communicate with the gods.

Feeling faintly foolish, wrapped in a cotton wool-like duvet and dressed entirely in white, like I was a twelve year old about to receive ‘first holy communion’, (which on reflection I guess I was), my fellow ‘huasca-nauts and I sat in a circle and were asked to meditate on our intentions. Mine was not to lose control of my bowels whilst wearing white trousers!

At sundown, the ceremony started with some chanting and a prayer for a safe and enlightening journey. Unlike any other psychedelics, Ayahuasca is the only one that relies on two separate plants to be combined to deliver the desired effect. I marvel at how our ancestors hit upon this magical formula as I take the first drink, made from Peganum Harmala (commonly known as Syrian Rue). It tastes very bitter and I have to resist the urge to vomit immediately. Boris Thorpee rue enables the body to absorb the second, equally foul tasting infusion of Mimosa Hostilis (Jurema); a powerful alternative to the traditional tea which is normally made with Banisteriopsis Caapi (a jungle vine, found in South America).

People with mental health issues or those taking certain prescription drugs like Prozac are prohibited from using this medicine, as are women who are menstruating, or anyone with a history of high blood pressure.

The ingredients for Ayahuasca can be purchased from online ‘head shops’ offering legal highs for about £15 per dose, but many users import the liquid from South America. It’s non addictive and has been used to treat heroin addicts as well as people suffering with depression.

Recent UK Government directives, blanket banning all legal highs has caused a fear within those communities that use Ayahuasca for religious purposes. In 1997 the US Supreme Court protected its use under the 1993 Religious Freedoms Act but this didn’t stop the US authorities seizing a shipment of herbs in 1999. It appears that no-one is really clear the legal status. As of March 18, 2009, it is still presumptively illegal in the United States to use Ayahuasca, unless one is a member of the two churches that have successfully sued the U.S. government.

A fax from the United Nations Drug Control Program states that “presently in Europe, no plants containing the active ingredient of Ayahuasca, dimethyltryptamine (DMT) are controlled under the 1971 Convention on Psychotropic Substances. Consequently, decoctions made of these plants are not under international control and therefore, not subject to any of the articles of the convention.”

Courts have ruled that Ayahuasca is not illegal when used as part of a religious practice, thanks to the work of institutions like the catholic based Santo Daime Church or the União do Vegetal (UDV) and the test cases they have brought. It is only when active compounds are isolated that they become illegal. It would be illegal to refine the tea to make a pure powdered form of DMT (a Class A substance) but not just to make a tea, as this in no way increases the naturally occurring compounds.

During the two day brewing process, the shaman sings special songs (known as Icaro) to the tea. These melodious incantations are repeated throughout the drinking ceremony and may be whistled or simply hummed and are used to encourage the spirits to come forth and induce the visions.

There was a special diet to follow for a whole week before the ceremony, excluding some food substances such as coffee, yeast and soy sauce, as well as cheese and the amino acid Tyramine, which has been shown to have dangerous interactions with the Ayahuasca and hence the need to have an experienced guide to ensure a safe experience. Full instructions were provided when booking this particular experience.

Thankfully, I wasn’t the first person to throw up but when I did, I didn’t feel ill. It felt cleansing, exhilarating. Now I know what it feels like to be Bruce Parry. Considering that I’d fasted for 36 hours previously (by choice as I was terrified of the purge when wearing white trousers, 5hrs being the minimum recommendation). I was surprised at how much came out the other end… and how frequently! This isn’t a substance to be played with and is certainly not a ‘party drug’ given the effects on the bowels.

The noise of people puking punctuated the soundscape, which seamlessly blended traditional Icaros with Goan trance music and real gongs, flutes and rattles. Amazonian birdcalls interwoven with the native owls of xxxxx created a stunning effect, enhanced by a good sound system and no neighbours. Music seems a key factor in the experience which probably explains its popularity with musicians such as Sting, Paul Simon, Tori Amos and The Klaxons. There are many creative visual artists who are also fans.

The visions I experienced were so intense and started with a rainbow starburst reminiscent the beginning of an episode of StarTrek as I prepared to boldly go… there was a sense of travelling through a tunnel (like the Dr Who opening titles); astounding colours and geometric patterns unlike any TV show I’ve ever seen. I could imagine them being the inspiration for designs woven into rugs.

Syrian Rue and Mimosa Hostilis are both dyes used in carpet making. Their effect on weavers led to legends of flying carpets. Exotic incenses burned throughout our eight hour ritual, sending white clouds of smoke billowing across the lawns which added to the flying effect.

During the ceremony, communications with others were limited to the bare necessities and we were introduced to the concept of Firmeza. A term that comes from the Portuguese and refers to the ability to stay calm, remain in one’s place and to keep one’s focus. It also means the ability not to allow our emotions to lead us astray from the purpose of the ritual, which is to transcend superficial impressions and to stay with our own emotions and thoughts and not become preoccupied with what others may be thinking or experiencing.

Everyone remained quietly in their own space (except for visits to the loo, when some people needed a helping hand from the assistants, to steer them in the right direction). The Santo Daime version differs somewhat as participants are encouraged to sing and dance while under the influence.

After the ritual we sat around the roaring bonfire in quiet reflection and listened to some of the most amazing drumming I’ve ever heard, courtesy of a man whose name was Love, a virtuoso on the bodhrán. I felt as though I was in a 60’s time warp!

Bowls of nourishing vegetable soup were handed out and as the sun rose, people drifted off to sleep for a few hours.

Later, participants discussed their experiences of the tea. Some people told of harrowing personal journeys full of pain, fear and despair and a feeling of abject terror induced by the Ayahuasca, a reminder that this isn’t an experience to be taken lightly and indeed is not for everyone! My personal experience was one of gentle euphoria. I was also surprised to see a vision of the Virgin Mary, particularly as I don’t identify with the Abrahamic faiths. Apparently it’s not unusual for people to have similar hallucinations and one that I did share with others, was seeing snakes in my visions. I dread to think what Freud would make of that!

Thankfully there was no hangover and the next day passed in a state of contented joy, walking through the woods and along the river or simply sitting in the sun chatting with the other people on the retreat. The afternoons afforded the opportunity to participate in some yoga sessions.
As the sun dipped on the horizon we prepared for the second communion. This time the visions were even more intense, building on the DMT that exists naturally within our brains. Even with my eyes closed, I was hyper aware of everyone around me. I also sensed another living presence, that of Jurema, the teacher/spirit of the plants and it felt like the medicine was introducing itself to me, checking me out to see if I was mentally strong enough to accept the lessons being offered.

The third night seemed entirely different from the first two, softer, more nurturing and certainly a tribute to the shaman’s skill in creating a safe space. He held the rituals together beautifully and authentically (even with the modern twists of recorded music), and kept a close watch on everyone taking part. At one point I felt cold and before I knew it, he’d given me an extra blanket. The weird thing was that even with closed eyes and no words exchanged, (and a total of four assistants) I knew exactly who had given me the blanket.

We know that herbal cures work. Foxglove/Digitalis is a powerful heart medicine.
Willow bark gave us Aspirin. Is Jurema a tonic for the soul?

Charles Grob MD, professor of psychiatry and pediatrics at UCLA’s School of Medicine and one of the handful of western scientists researching Ayahuasca, conducted experiments with the tea in 1993 and he found that it was more beneficial then SSRI’s (like Prozac) in the fight against depression.

The indigenous users claim this medicine can cure all sorts of ailments and the data from Dr Grob does indeed seem to verify this. Many doctors (as well as writers, musicians, artists and spiritual seekers) have become fascinated with this powerful substance but few are willing to put their reputation on the line from a scientific point of view, for fear of being ridiculed. Science and Religion rarely make good companions.

There have been anecdotal reports of Ayahuasca being responsible for curing cancer, notably by Professor Donald M. Topping, Ph.D. Professor Emeritus, University of Hawaii.

In the light of such astounding (but limited) medical research, Ayahuasca tourism is booming but I wonder if the contact with native tribes is a good thing? We know that early European travellers managed to kill off thousands by bringing then unknown diseases to their isolated villages. Today these places are becoming more like theme parks, destroying the very core of what makes them attractive to us in the first place, as people search out ‘authentic’ Perhaps it’s up to Bruce to show us what these places are really like and for us to keep a safe distance away and explore our own countries?

I wonder how many other medicines are waiting to be discovered in the rainforests and if they will be found before the environments are destroyed. Thankfully there are several projects trying to document shamanistic/medicinal use of plants and preserve the knowledge for future generations.

As I hugged my new friends goodbye (the Ayahuasca experience created a deep bond between us all, or maybe that was just the effect of communal puking?), I was left feeling spiritually clean, calmly serene, deeply joyous and with pristine white trousers.

 

[Amaxxx]

It differs from smoking DMT in the way that it seems to help the individual in a lot of very profound and deep ways.

So you think if that's your experience it is true? LOL remember that everyone's different with different experiences!

Ask for anyone here, how many profound and deep "helps" have they got from smoking DMT?
I've certainly had my share of "help"

Upon reflection, yes, you are right. DMT effects one in "very deep and profound ways" as well. I was incorrectly trying to state the difference between what I personally feel is not a recreational drug, ie. Ayahuasca, and what can be a recreational drug when taken in a safe place, ie. smoking a pipe or joint of DMT....

 

[tele]

It's unfortunate they don't publish any good words about these things. Would be nice if they would find a way to publish it !

 

[tele]

It differs from smoking DMT in the way that it seems to help the individual in a lot of very profound and deep ways.

So you think if that's your experience it is true? LOL remember that everyone's different with different experiences!

Ask for anyone here, how many profound and deep "helps" have they got from smoking DMT?
I've certainly had my share of "help"

Upon reflection, yes, you are right. DMT effects one in "very deep and profound ways" as well. I was incorrectly trying to state the difference between what I personally feel is not a recreational drug, ie. Ayahuasca, and what can be a recreational drug when taken in a safe place, ie. smoking a pipe or joint of DMT....

WELL YOU WOULD HAVE TO HAVE VERY MILD DOSE OF DMT!

It's the same active as ayahuasca has, so making any such distinctions of recreational and spiritual is stupid IMO. Well can't you drink small dose of aya recreationally? You see the difference?

It's best to give them the respect they deserve and keep word recreational away from them.

 

[Amaxxx]

OK...?

Even if that's your 2cents on the subject, it still doesn't make it totally acceptable to ask for such prices for a drink almost anyone can learn to boil.

Perhaps you aren't familiar with the prices that people pay for Yoga retreats? I'm familiar with the cost of making Ayahuasca, and doing it properly with reverence and respect can be a two day process so I am told. I don't want to argue about the cost, because at one extreme the ingredients only cost a few dollars, whilst at the other extreme it takes a few days to prepare properly and suitably for the occasion. Many people, including me, would argue that a t-bag version of Ayahuasca to take on the sofa one Sat evening with the girlfriend is not exactly the same as in a nicely prepared environment (remember scene + setting) with experienced and compassionate people around. A Yoga retreat for a long-weekend could easily set you back £500 ($800).....

 

[tele]

There is big difference between yoga and substance such as ayahuasca. This thing is sacred, and for anything like this one should never ever take money, this creates not only a risk for the one selling, but for the whole community, such as this Aziz made for UK community! Just look at the articles posted about that because of him.

Do you wonder, why this forum has strict rules against selling DMT? And aya has DMT as the active, so what would be the difference?

If someone wants to offer this, fine, but DO IT FREE OF CHARGE and get your money for living elsewhere. Psychedelic experience is not something you can take money from without consequences. Just look at what this aziz got himself into, and that's only because he charged money and pissed off the authorities!

Have respect and you will be respected by the plants.

Time to take out the 15x100cm caapi!

 

[tele]

Many people, including me, would argue that a t-bag version of Ayahuasca to take on the sofa one Sat evening with the girlfriend is not exactly the same as in a nicely prepared environment (remember scene + setting) with experienced and compassionate people around

SO THIS CANNOT BE DONE FREE OF CHARGE?

I feel like charging money for ayahuasca is no different from dealing drugs, and this could very well be the case why the authorities got involved in this stupid case.

If you give it to people free of charge, out of your sincere feelings towards sharing the experience, that is a very different and respectable.

Well we do live in a world conrtolled by money, so it's no wonder that these self acclaimed "neo-shamans" can get greedy for money!

If they would say "you can give donation if you want", I think that would be fine.

 

[Amaxxx]

I would stress that any money changing hands is firstly a donation only, and also for the cost of the occasion, setup, accommodation, food and helpers. It is most certainly NOT for the Ayahuasca. That is free.

If you had 25 people turn up at your house and you had to erect an external marquee, rent heating equipment, buy bed stuff, wash and clean sheets, feed them 24*7, clean bathrooms and floors, etc etc would you do it free?

I totally agree that we should NOT encourage or allow so-called shamans to do this to "make money" like lousy drug dealers....

 

[McCoyBoy]

i agree, i would absolutely pay for that experience in a aya retreat.

dont mind the defensive DMT police on this forum. I know your opinion is just an opinion. continue on your path and goodluck

 

[tele]

OK so that sounds better, but I must say again that charging money for ayahuasca is absolutely stupid. But this would still seem like charging money for a drug in the authorities eyes, probably, therefore he got into trouble.

Secondly I feel like 25 people taking ayahuasca is quite few too many! Even for the matter of possible vomiting...

This could be done free of charge totally with maximum 2-3 people as guests, why should this be done in such a large group that requires so much money spending? For me sounds like business...

 

[Amaxxx]

OK so that sounds better, but I must say again that charging money for ayahuasca is absolutely stupid. But this would still seem like charging money for a drug in the authorities eyes, probably, therefore he got into trouble.

Ah! But I like the push for clarity on getting the argument right

 

[Apoc]

This was the story that was prepared for publication in one of the UK top newspapers. The editor decided not to print. I have edited a couple of sentences where the location of the retreats could be guessed and which currently might not be too smart for the individuals involved.

Great article. I hope the guys who wrote it come forward and give their opinion on the Aziz case, and their own situation. I'm sure the same thing would have happened to me if I tried ayahuasca for the first time as a reporter. I'm sure it would happen to a lot of people.

 

[actualfactual]

Syrian Rue and Mimosa Hostilis are both dyes used in carpet making. Their effect on weavers led to legends of flying carpets. Exotic incenses burned throughout our eight hour ritual, sending white clouds of smoke billowing across the lawns which added to the flying effect.

If this is true that would be awesome!

 

[christian]

AZIZ must have been quite well off, look at those RIDICULOUS prices he was charging on his site, for "RIDICULOUS , and strange, questionable services". He already had money. He could have done free Ayahuasca sessions out of thanks for the good vibes he got from all the money he made-Greedy swine!


=No sympathy for the rotter at all-NONE!! :twisted: :twisted:

----did he deserve it--ooo yeeaaaaaa!!!! :lol: :lol: 8)

--not for the Ayahuasca, but the charging of MONEY, Blaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!!!!!

 

[tele]

AZIZ must have been quite well off, look at those RIDICULOUS prices he was charging on his site, for "RIDICULOUS , and strange, questionable services". He already had money. He could have done free Ayahuasca sessions out of thanks for the good vibes he got from all the money he made-Greedy swine!


=No sympathy for the rotter at all-NONE!! :twisted: :twisted:

----did he deserve it--ooo yeeaaaaaa!!!! :lol: :lol: 8)

--not for the Ayahuasca, but the charging of MONEY, Blaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!!!!!

BRING OUT THE CAAPI!


... 100 x 15 cm please ...


:lol:

 

[DoingKermit]

Yeah, i am not sure how to feel about the dude. Charging people for aya ceremonies seems pretty lame, but according to what i read about him earlier, he doesn't make that much money out of it.

Quoted from Guardian Website:

Aziz made only £10,000 a year and lived in a two-bedroom former council house with his family. "This isn't a case where a man is selling cocaine to make a good living of Maseratis and villas on the Riviera," he told the court.

"The money he was making from these events was little more than a subsistence income," he said.

So it doesn't sound like he was fully loaded with cash from these events. However, who knows how true this is. He could be saving cash in certain amounts not accounted for by his bank (if he even used one).

I am in two minds about this guy. Never heard of him before this and it sounds like he did mean well, but using aya as a form of making a living just doesn't seem right.