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Bad combo? Alcohol + ayahuasca... 5 days on I am still flipping out

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imessedup

Rising Star
Hi everyone, So basically I Need help. You can PM me if you want to help?

So I tried making my own ayahuasca. I followed simple instructions. Ingredients are MHRB + harmala.

I took the mixture in the morning. I started coming up... all the visuals were changed and colourful and intense. Loads of body sensations.

I was becoming anxious and wanted to really enjoy the trip, so I drank some alcohol 1 hour after the trip started. It helped a lot, I started to feel less anxious. I'd heard that alcohol can kind of cancel out the anxiety.

Well.... overtime as the alcohol wore off... I became more and more stressed out or intense or feeling bad. I was basically bit by bit, being sucked into some kind of... "whirlwind" where I was being proven that "you are one with the Universe" but the exerpience was really disconcerting.

Mostly cos it was taking too long to come down and I did not like the whole idea of "being one with the Universe" anyhow. Not like that. Not in that way. I mean it wasn't BAD just... far too bizarre for me.

Hyper-real. Like not even colourful anymore. I read afterwards that this is because of combining alcohol + DMT?

Did I just make the worst possible mix? DID I? And how do I undo it?

"Adding any psychoactive substance, including alcohol, to a bad trip is likely to increase your feelings of anxiety and being out of control (followed by the comedown while you are still feeling wide awake under the influence of the hallucinogen)."

Seems like I spent days or was it years just floating up and down in my house...

The problem is that I never really came back down fully. The trip ended. No more colours etc. But the anxiety just never went away. In fact it got more intense the longer that it wasn't disappearing.

I did get some help thankfully, as some people I know online (not here) were able to talk to me. Talking HELPS SO MUCH.

I'm left with this:
1) Racing thoughts on all sorts of high-level concepts about the Universe, that WON'T STOP unless I'm talking to someone else. Talking to others is nice though... even about mundane things!
2) Very basic things can make me flip out in fear... if I'm not allowed to react to it "properly".

How do I get out of this?

Is valium a good idea? would it help remove the anxiety

I need help. I really really need it. Is the answer to just ride it out or what?

Its been 5 days since I took this stuff and I am STILL not the same. I've heard it can take weeks. I hope its not worse!
 
Alcohol tends to put difficult emotions on hold until the effects wear off and then makes you deal with it tenfold.

Otherwise, it seems you're experiencing a new level of your mind being opened. New ideas, concepts, etc in a conceptual maelstrom. It's something you'll integrate and adjust to. Just take your time and learn to be with this new experience of and within your own mind.

I'm not sure if getting into benzos is the best idea. I'd reserve those to extreme situations and if possible try using CBD to help manage the anxious waves.

One love
 
please forgive me... I know the way I did it was wrong... not enough shamanic preparation and I mixed it with alcohol.

I'm not promoting anyone doing what I did. I feel ashamed and sorry. Or at least foolish.

I just want to go back to how I was.

Also, because I didn't purge... (no vomit) does that make things harder? Perhaps my body wants to purge the DMT but doesn't know how?

I dumped all the MHRB and harmala in my house.
 
Sounds like you were a little unprepared for what might happen!

The ongoing cosmic themes in your cognition may be due to the new connections formed in your brain by the experience; I think you'll get used to it. These kinds of experiences are not something you can 'un-have' once you've had them. But there is a term - integration - for how you deal with the insights and consequences of the experience you've had.

Incidentally, it's not unheard of for certain Amazonian tribes to combine their ayahuasca usage with significant intake of chica - the local beer. And even these indigenous users (not necessarily the beer-drinking ones) describe the ayahuasca visions as not infrequently terrifying - so you are not alone! It's perhaps a little sad to hear that you received a traumatic imprint on this first try but there is also a poetic sense of balance with the cosmic enlightenment themes you describe.

So, what preparations did you make for this experience? What was your brew made with? How much did you drink? How long did it actually last? What were your most valuable insights at this stage? What did you find most challenging and why?

Perhaps if you had been able to receive some guidance during the trip you may have found yourself in a less taxing state at this stage, but equally we'll never know. The key here is some level of acceptance, and the ability to forgive yourself for this. Sometimes we need to push our limits to know where they are and that's OK - especially as you seem to be in acceptable physical condition (I assume?)

By the way, in terms of personal forgiveness I've found regular use of just the harmala alkaloids, or brews of syrian rue (being similar to the caapi vine in certain ways), to be of the utmost helpfulness. Time is a great healer, and laughter is the best medicine. So it may have been a little hasty of you to have dumped your harmalas in this respect, but they do grow on trees, or vines and shrubs at least.
 
My interpretation:
The anxiety was already there to begin with, I imagine using substances to numb it out is a bit of a pattern for you, though you can reflect on that and figure it out for yourself.

You are all good, no need to run away from it, in my experiecne trying to get back to how things were is where most of the suffering comes from.
In a weird way, you can start to go through the process of grieving and forgiving your old self.

I guess if you really want to go back you can use substances to to numb it out, that just feels a bit like a step backwards to me though.
Ideally you want to strenghten your ability to just sit with the anxiety, and perhaps figure out where it actually comes from.
 
11 years ago I took maybe too much harmalas with my mimosa dose. I cant be sure what causes what but I took a much higher than normal dose of harmalas with a fairly normal(for me) dose of DMT. The trip was a really hard and traumatic number of hours.

I don't need to go into details about it. It was a really hard terrifying ayauhasca breakthrough trip.

After I could not sleep properly. I was fairly dizzy a lot of the time. My energy was already low and I was dealing with some issues from a yet to be diagnosed disease...but the next 3 months I felt pretty much f*ked. I would lay bed having weird trips instead of falling asleap. During the day vertigo was really bad.

Some of it was probly stress on my body from lack of sleep, making my already existant immune problems worse...I dont know. My anxiety was also through the roof during this time.

I will stress though that when I say I trippeds at night, I mean specific ayahuasca type states. I even remember waking up a lot feeling a distinct tryptamine buzz. It would make my anxiety worse and I would lay there awake.

I think maybe some things can happen when a person ingests harmalas that we dont really understand. Do we know what happened to Dennis Mckenna? Other people have described some sort of prolonged state.

It took like 3 months. I ate a lot of dense grounding food. Lots of meat and potatoes for a while, made sure I slept a lot...drank water etc. Dont do this stuff for a while. If you cant sleep or relax maybe talk to a dr about it or try sedative herbs like kava. Benzos I would only consider as a last resort personally because it's hard for me to stop.

Diphenhydramine once or twice to sleep doesnt really hurt. If you ar 5 days into feeling like crap, I think you can forgive yourself for drinking some alcohol. I personally don't believe in plant spirits you can offend etc. It probly would just contribute nausea and confusion/stupor to the trip in your mind. Hope this helps and you can relax a bit, because pretty much everyone grounds again at some point.
 
Other tips for sleeping include melatonin, californian poppy (eschscholzia), ashwaganda, valerian (don't overdo this one, it can cause dependence of a sort), and getting plenty of hard physical exercise. Warm and cold baths and showers are another nondrug option.

Nutritionally, ensure you have an adequate B vitamin intake and avoid processed foods. Porridge oats are a great calming snack of an evening, I've always found.


ShadedSelf makes some great observations there, IMO.

Hope you're beginning to fell some sense of how you can meaningfully bring this forward - and if you want to check into the Chat room you'll usually find somebody there willing to lend a sympathetic ear. There's a few of us around at the moment but sometimes it can be a bit quiet because of things like work and sleeping.
 
jamie said:
11 years ago I took maybe too much harmalas with my mimosa dose. I cant be sure what causes what but I took a much higher than normal dose of harmalas with a fairly normal(for me) dose of DMT. The trip was a really hard and traumatic number of hours.
Click to expand...

I did use a high harmala dose. that probably could be the problem...

Im glad you grounded and I hope I can too!!! I REALLY want to come back to normal.

The people telling me to "Grieve who I was"... sigh. I liked who I was. It was better than this. I didn't need to die. I just needed lifting out of a certain ditch... not of my own digging. You can't just start a whole new life from the middle of nowhere. It makes no sense. I need to go back...

Did you drink alcohol during your "grounding" phase? Did it help?
 
Alcohol is poisonous junk and makes you feel like sh*t. Take a goood look at yourself (I thought that was the whole idea with ayahuasca). Post-alcohol days will always be more anxiety-tinged because that's how it works (GABA allosteric modulation amongst other things).

But.... your sins are forgiven, so at least there's that.

But it's still a one-way ticket, what else could it possibly be? Good news is you WILL get through this - I was once a homeless degenerate living in a hedge and now my life is in considerably better shape. So let go of all that past stuff - it's water under the bridge now. Yes, the letting go process may well take quite some time but stick with it, keep the faith, and lady luck will smile upon you.

Be kind to yourself - one day you will be grateful for this past week.
 
First of all - quit alcohol. Alcohol doesnt't solve anything, it dissolves your mental freedom - because its socially accepted.

My experience drinking MHRB tea is - that it can be quite heavy.

You followed simple instructions? Did you filter it? I've never purged with MHRB because of filtering this also makes it last way longer. I personally think that purging is caused by the high amount of tanines, because of that it makes the trip less heavier.

If this is really day 5 - Go for a nice run, exercise and sweat it out, if your condition allows it - if not I would hit that benzo.
 
Sure with a good meal and friends/family around a drink might help you relax and that is a good thing.

If you are turning to alcohol on its own in a sort of vaccume to solve a problem, that could become an issue pretty fast if the issue continues right?

I don't even know you so I wont tell you what you should do.

Personally for the longer term for sleep/anxiety I saw a Dr who had me taking a mix of herbs that work on gaba, combined with gaba.

Alcohol is a GABA agonist...but it's not a good long term solution at all. You probly need a few nights of solid sleep.
 
imessedup said:
The people telling me to "Grieve who I was"... sigh. I liked who I was. It was better than this. I didn't need to die. I just needed lifting out of a certain ditch... not of my own digging. You can't just start a whole new life from the middle of nowhere. It makes no sense. I need to go back...
Click to expand...

Our progress and growth through life is rarely completely linear (nor is it the case for many things that evolve over time). Though you liked who you were then, you are where you are now. And right now you are at an inflection point at becoming someone even better who you could very well like more (and hopefully this is the case). You wouldn't have stayed who you were forever anyway. That said, though you don't feel very good right now, it's an opportunity to get to know yourself better. A little bit of surrender and acceptance will take you a very long way.

This brings to mind a sentiment I shared a little over a year ago. Perhaps considering it may help you.

One love

Psychedelic
DF0 said:
valerian (don't overdo this one, it can cause dependence of a sort)
Click to expand...

I want to echo this. I deal with such a dependence, and I've also been thinking that it may be something that over time is impairing my memory.
 
Carl Jung famously said: "What you resist persists." It can be like this with anxiety. Trying to find ways to negate it can actually just make it come back stronger. Finding soft healthy ways to endure it (like talking and being around with other people) are more likely to help you in the long run. The problems started with you trying to bypass fear of anxiety. Trying to find a quick solution, a shortcut to the situation you are currently dealing with is likely to just make things worse.

Patience can become your superpower.
 
Have you ever had a song stuck in your head? The best way for that to pass is to let the song finish without interrupting it.

I agree with those saying to sit with your anxiety. Don't fight it or wish it away. Allow yourself to experience it.

You are worried with going back to who you where. You are already you.

You feel guilty about the alcohol and poor preparation. I would not beat myself up over that. You where just trying your best like we all are. Life is messy and not perfect all the time. As we learn and gain new perspectives, self forgiveness is very important. It allows to focus our energy into building a new future.

Notice how your body feels. Is it strong and healthy?

I suggest you go outside and be with nature if you haven't done that yet. Notice your beautiful senses smelling the air, hearing the animals, seeing the wide open world. Touch a soft flower and indulge in that. Take your time.

I suggest to eat healthy and exercise too. Thank your body for taking such good care of you.

Let yourself feel. Let yourself be one with the universe. Do your best and forget the rest.

These are just my suggestions for your consideration.
 
My interpretation;

You took plants, and you needed alchohol to calm it down. I feel like you felt guilty for mixing alchohol with the plants. Yet you shouldn’t. The plants know what’s up. It’s between you and the plants.
 
BundleflowerPower said:
My interpretation;

You took plants, and you needed alchohol to calm it down. I feel like you felt guilty for mixing alchohol with the plants. Yet you shouldn’t. The plants know what’s up. It’s between you and the plants.
Click to expand...

Amen lol.
 
jamie said:
Sure with a good meal and friends/family around a drink might help you relax and that is a good thing.

If you are turning to alcohol on its own in a sort of vaccume to solve a problem, that could become an issue pretty fast if the issue continues right?

I don't even know you so I wont tell you what you should do.

Personally for the longer term for sleep/anxiety I saw a Dr who had me taking a mix of herbs that work on gaba, combined with gaba.

Alcohol is a GABA agonist...but it's not a good long term solution at all. You probly need a few nights of solid sleep.
Click to expand...

Hi Jamie,

I'm the one who wrote that post originally...

thanks EVERYONE (downwardsfrom0 and all) for all the advice, I've been doing most of it already. Even the B-vitamins thing...

I decided to make sure I was eating liver everyday, and a whole lemon too (haha). Yellow pee is a good sign i'm getting B3-megadose.

I'd love to hear from Jamie about the GABA herbs. What herbs and how to research them. The only GABA things I can find are pharma chems which I'd rather avoid.

Thanks for all the kindness about not beating myself up. I made a mistake... I felt bad and now I hope I can be forgiven. I need to help those around me too who had to see me in that state.
 
Leaving alcohol has been the best decision I've ever made in my life.

I was going through emotionally dark time back then. When I took alcohol I could take a break from the suffering. However the suffering always came back the next day. Not so much even in form of hangovers but experiencing the exactly same thought loops again. This is why alcoholics become nasty company. They just can't get over whatever is bugging them. When I quit drinking it felt for some time like having superpowers. I can actually do something about the things that bother and I can find better attitudes to whatever wrong I have experienced or difficulties I'm going through.

I'm afraid what you're at is something you can't solve even if you'd find a substitute for alcohol. Confronting the pain is what makes you stronger. Even if it first feels like you're crushing under it, you will very soon begin to realize that you have lots more persistence than you thought. When you learn to take that pain, you can learn to live fully, because life is full of pain. Running away from the pain is running away from life itself.

You have this one life in this body you were given. Different paths have different amount and different kinds of suffering.

I believe you have already taken the first step, nitrogenaztec. Best of luck 🙏
 
So much amazing knowledge and advice here.

No doubt that bell can't be un-rung, and as unpleasant as it may seem now, this can definitely still be turned into a positive experience. No-one ever said it was going to be easy.
It is a decision on your part, and it will take effort, but it is up to you.

Do something simple. Light a candle and sit comfortably in front of it. Ask yourself what were the things you hoped to gain from this experience? How did you want to change yourself? What did you want to leave behind and what new things did you want to see?
Imagine this person, sitting opposite you, the candle in between. Close your eyes, relax, focus on slowing your breathing down, longer and slower the better, relaxing more with each exhalation and visualising this new you in front of you.
Breathe.

OMmmmm
 
Tomtegubbe said:
Leaving alcohol has been the best decision I've ever made in my life.

I was going through emotionally dark time back then. When I took alcohol I could take a break from the suffering. However the suffering always came back the next day. Not so much even in form of hangovers but experiencing the exactly same thought loops again. This is why alcoholics become nasty company. They just can't get over whatever is bugging them. When I quit drinking it felt for some time like having superpowers. I can actually do something about the things that bother and I can find better attitudes to whatever wrong I have experienced or difficulties I'm going through.

I'm afraid what you're at is something you can't solve even if you'd find a substitute for alcohol. Confronting the pain is what makes you stronger. Even if it first feels like you're crushing under it, you will very soon begin to realize that you have lots more persistence than you thought. When you learn to take that pain, you can learn to live fully, because life is full of pain. Running away from the pain is running away from life itself.

You have this one life in this body you were given. Different paths have different amount and different kinds of suffering.

I believe you have already taken the first step, nitrogenaztec. Best of luck 🙏
Click to expand...

That is true.

But would you do surgery without painkillers?

I feel like I've spent a long time doing surgery on myself. Over 12 years really. Its not quite over yet.

Just saying... not everything is so simple. Not saying you are wrong or that alcohol is always great.
 
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