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Beyond DMT, using DMT as a starting point
- Thread starter crakkbakk
- Start date
extrememetal43
Rising Star
Id like to kno too even tho with dmt u already got the cream of the crop! dmt blows everything away but a cool thought to turn that dmt into other stuff! Is it possible?
extrememetal43
Rising Star
OK using no real chemistry knowledge lets try to get an understanding here.
Usin the spirit molecules molecule diagrams I'l try to see the difference between them.
It says DMT is tryptamine with two methyl groups added. so to get tryptamine from dmt i guess remove the two methyl groups. I guess figure out how chemists remove methyl groups.
Serotonin is tryptamine with an added Oxygen. how do chemists add an oxygen to a molecule.
Now these two arent psychedelics but lets see if we can go further!
Psilocin is dmt with an added oxygen! thats it chemically seems simple like it would be one step. Getting psilocin from dmt would be incredible and all you gotta do is an add oxygen. But how the hell do you do that?
5-meo-dmt differs from dmt with an added methyl group and an added oxygen!
OK well theres a start so to you chemists how do you add or remove methyl groups or these Oxygens?
Usin the spirit molecules molecule diagrams I'l try to see the difference between them.
It says DMT is tryptamine with two methyl groups added. so to get tryptamine from dmt i guess remove the two methyl groups. I guess figure out how chemists remove methyl groups.
Serotonin is tryptamine with an added Oxygen. how do chemists add an oxygen to a molecule.
Now these two arent psychedelics but lets see if we can go further!
Psilocin is dmt with an added oxygen! thats it chemically seems simple like it would be one step. Getting psilocin from dmt would be incredible and all you gotta do is an add oxygen. But how the hell do you do that?
5-meo-dmt differs from dmt with an added methyl group and an added oxygen!
OK well theres a start so to you chemists how do you add or remove methyl groups or these Oxygens?
extrememetal43
Rising Star
OK i got as far as looking up methyl groups on wikipedia and looking into the SN2 reaction and it lost me. That shit looks difficult...it would take a month to look up every chemistry term i didnt understand.
Something like adding "oxygens" or more precise hydroxyl groups to selective positions around the indole ring of dmt to make bufo or psilocin is something very very difficult if not impossible to achieve via synthesis in organic chemistry.
It is difficult for chemists to precisely control where any extra groups are added on the dmt, let along trying to "stick" them on a fairly chemically inert indolic ring!
Maybe a molecular biology approach using purified enzymes to catalyse the respective reactions on dmt could work but I do not really know. Enzymes are very selective as to the reactions they catalyse and this is to our advantage. But which could these enzymes be? they need to be characterised in bufotenine-, psilocin- and 5-meo- containing plants before they are of any use.
So, as far as crakkbakk's first question is concerned, more or less nothing could be further done with the extracted dmt. Just smoke it and let your friends smoke it as well.
It is difficult for chemists to precisely control where any extra groups are added on the dmt, let along trying to "stick" them on a fairly chemically inert indolic ring!
Maybe a molecular biology approach using purified enzymes to catalyse the respective reactions on dmt could work but I do not really know. Enzymes are very selective as to the reactions they catalyse and this is to our advantage. But which could these enzymes be? they need to be characterised in bufotenine-, psilocin- and 5-meo- containing plants before they are of any use.
So, as far as crakkbakk's first question is concerned, more or less nothing could be further done with the extracted dmt. Just smoke it and let your friends smoke it as well.
Using DMT itself would be a waste. There are much cheaper precursors available to make compounds chemically similar to dmt. For example indole or tryptophan or tryptamine.
burnt said:
swim looked into making tryptophan and tryptamine into interesting precursors, unfortunately the reactions are very difficult. swim also looked into obtaining an enzyme which'd do the bulk of the work for him. Unfortunately it hasn't been isolated, or if it has (it is named.) [something like 2,3 tryptaminereductase] it certainly isn't available for general purchase.
a long and difficult road here, methinx.
Getting enzymes to make fine chemicals on a large scale is difficult and requires lots of experience with culturing and incubating organisms and enzymes.
Its not like making a cake but is less expensive then using dmt. anyway synth isn't something we want to discuss on this board so ill drop this conversation
Its not like making a cake but is less expensive then using dmt. anyway synth isn't something we want to discuss on this board so ill drop this conversation
i concur
as far as manipulating the molecule itself, one would need to protect the indolic nitrogen before trying to add things to the aryl ring (nothing fantastically difficult, just something to think about). it really exceeds the scope of kitchen chemistry
and adding anything to the indole nitrogen (save N-Oxide) would likely render the molecule inactive.
trying to add things to the terminal amine group is what's really tricky, as it tends to cyclize easily, forming a beta-carboline.
as far as manipulating the molecule itself, one would need to protect the indolic nitrogen before trying to add things to the aryl ring (nothing fantastically difficult, just something to think about). it really exceeds the scope of kitchen chemistry
and adding anything to the indole nitrogen (save N-Oxide) would likely render the molecule inactive.
trying to add things to the terminal amine group is what's really tricky, as it tends to cyclize easily, forming a beta-carboline.
moracca
Rising Star
it has been said that adding various tryptamines (ie dmt) to certain psychedelic mushroom substrates has the effect of "4-hydroxylating" the trypt that was added. in this case, giving us 4-ho-dmt, or psilocin. link: Ask Dr. Shulgin Online
notapillow
Rising Star
shulgin is part of the bohemian clublowjackal said:
by the by:shock:
moracca said:
yeah, theoretically
unfortunately, no one has ever been able to reproduce the results of [Gartz et al.], so the theory is inconclusive.
Observant
Nothing Stops The Void
That would sure be some wasted Spice 
I am going to see Jochen Gartz in a few Weeks ,
I think I'll ask about that mushroom doping technique
What I am looking for is natural alien Tryptamines , where one can in the best
case , use the source Plant as Substrate for the Mushroom.
I am going to see Jochen Gartz in a few Weeks ,
I think I'll ask about that mushroom doping technique
What I am looking for is natural alien Tryptamines , where one can in the best
case , use the source Plant as Substrate for the Mushroom.