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Break through every time?

Migrated topic.
Purges

Purges

Rising Star
OG Pioneer
Who does this? Both my friend and I would be terrified of taking Spice if we had this attitude towards it, yet many of the people who want to be introduced to it seem pre-occupied with breaking through first time - if you expect it every time, you may well be disappointed, not that I have heard anyone be disappointed yet! :lol:

I always tell them: "Be careful what you wish for" - having had the crap scared out of me a few times (in one night no less :lol: slightly reckless night, but we have to push ourselves some times, right?)

For me, at the moment, I am enjoying sub break through levels. Beyond that isn't necessary all the time, and can have implications IME, so is saved for those times when my psyche is in A* condition. I am also aiming for long low level changa sessions soon, to help clear me out (had a monumental purge on my last scraps of Changa last time I had access, need to ask my friend if I can have some more). I feel that through these recent practises, my positive energy is growing, and starting to make a noticeable difference in my life. Spirituality has taken a new meaning for me thanks to spice, and I am indebted for this.

In many ways, I think going for a breakthrough every time is a bit of an abuse of the molecule's wonderful powers. And neglecting some of it's subtler ways in the process. Having said that, the experience of total immersion is needed some times, and can give one a tremendous appreciation for life. Another friend of mine broke through first time on 50mg 1:1 enhanced leaf (~25mg spice) - and it has had a very positive effect indeed. That afternoon, he poured out all of his alcohol (which he was struggling with at the time) and vowed to me he wouldn't touch a drop again - 2 weeks later, he still hasn't touched a drop. Powerful stuff. Of course he can top up whenever he wants, healing should be a shared , especially with those to whom you are close. I think he needed a strong first experience, where as I want to ease my GF in easily for an example, so as not to put her off. Each situation needs a different approach IMO/E.

So, how do you guys approach the spice? I have a lot of time to think about these things at the moment, so sorry for all my posts, but I am beyond fascinated with it.

Peace and love,

P x
 
I tend to load up my bowl and see what happens. I use a variety of different psyches so if I want a "sub breakthrough" I'll eat some mushrooms.

Sometimes I do like to maintain a sub breakthrough with changa though.

Different drugs have different uses, and different forms of dmt have different qualities. Instead of getting all of my teachings with one substance, I like to vary it up.

So to answer your question, if I am vaping spice, I usually go for a breakthrough.
 
See, for me, mushies are a very different exprience than DMT, I haven't had them for years, partly because a lot of my friends are / were shit scared of them, same goes for spice, but I prefer that in solitary conditions any way, but will of course make exceptions for those who are bold enough to take the plunge. I love the range of effects that DMT gives, but have to be careful as each dose, even if they are the same, can have wildly different effects.

I like your outlook though, may give mushrooms another chance soon, I have had very mixed experiences with them. And they have certainly taught me a lesson or two!
 
Speaking for myself only, Im beginning to find the 20-30mg breakthroughs leave me wanting more.I dont like doses less than 20mg because they dont project me to where I want to get, and the residual ego can start a-thinking a little too much.

My dosage of choice is 35-40mg FB in one breath via the GVG, or changa made of caapi x 11 with FB in a 1 : 1 ratio with 40ish mgs of DMT in one breath via a small glass bong with water.

I respect DMT to only use it when my mindset is correct to be voyaging.I have been known to very occasionally push the boat out a little further and occasionally to my limits which is around 48-50mg in one breath.Needless to say, I dont need to dose this high too often!:shock: :d
 
LOL the thought of 48-50 is a bit daunting for me at this stage! I have had full blown, heavy breakthroughs from 30 :surprised I think 40 or so would be my limit for the time being, I'll take the dosing up slowly I think, better safe than sorry. I had a couple of unweighed changa trips which were particularly heavy, they must have had around 40, it was a good weed sized bowl full in a bong, one hit. I only want to do stuff like that once in a while though :shock: :lol:
 
When I was starting out I was blasting 50mg in one lung full, but realistically I was probably burning some of it with bad technique. Those were some crazy rides though. I have never planned to 'breakthrough' or not... just fire it up and see what happens.

Since I got into vaporizing ~30mg seems to be a good amount. I eyeball the dose so never too sure of how much. I hit all in one breath too, I have big lungs. By the time Im ready to go for another it's already too late :)
 
Purges said:
In many ways, I think going for a breakthrough every time is a bit of an abuse of the molecule's wonderful powers.
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Breaking through every time can mean breaking through once a year. Is that abuse? I don't smoke DMT often but I aim for a breakthrough most times. Now I haven't smoked DMT for 4 months or more. I tend to do it in sessions.
 
I don't think breaking through once a year is an abuse, no. I am still very much in my 'honeymoon' with the Spice, so weekly sessions are still not uncommon...

This leads me to the question, how much is too much? How does one know? And do you always need a specific intention for visiting? I am currently finding 1-2 times per week a comfortable level, but am finding my use becoming more spread out as my experience grows with it... A particularly heavy experience will keep the urge at bay for some time though!
 
Purges said:
This leads me to the question, how much is too much? How does one know?
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Abuse is on you to determine. I was having breakthroughs daily and multiple times a day for months when I first discovered DMT...it wasn't causing negative effects and I was taking care of other things in my life as well, so I don't think there was any abuse there.

You have to decide things for you...how much is too much? It depends; I've had periods of "insane" frequency...I've had periods of no use, just listen to your body and go with your gut. You'll know when it's time to stop...DMT has an odd way of informing you 😉 As long as you have balancei n your life and don't try to force doses or neglect your life, just go with the flow and do what feels right; as with everything, you are your own master.
 
Purges said:
I don't think breaking through once a year is an abuse, no. I am still very much in my 'honeymoon' with the Spice, so weekly sessions are still not uncommon...

This leads me to the question, how much is too much? How does one know? And do you always need a specific intention for visiting? I am currently finding 1-2 times per week a comfortable level, but am finding my use becoming more spread out as my experience grows with it... A particularly heavy experience will keep the urge at bay for some time though!
Click to expand...

You just gotta do what feels right. Everyone is unique in this regard. Trust your intuition and higher self, for it will give you hints, and if you listen you will know all you need to know in regards to the frequency of DMT use. 1-2x per week during the honeymoon phase is common and even encouraged. This will help you get familiar with what the spice is and what it is trying to show you. Some of us have used it far more often than that.
 
I like that, '1-2x per week is even encouraged' :D *Purges goes to get smoalking gear* out of all the substances I have taken, it is weird how powerful, yet gentle Spice is. I had a session yesgerday which really eased any anxiety I have been having with blasting off / breaking through lately. I think going too far too soon may have put me on edge a bit, thqnkfully I have some scales these days he he.

Corpus, funnily enouh, I too am starting to feel that way about 20-30 mgs, it isn't packing the punch that it was even a month ago. My mind must be adjusting...
 
DMTripper said:
Purges said:
In many ways, I think going for a breakthrough every time is a bit of an abuse of the molecule's wonderful powers.
Click to expand...

Breaking through every time can mean breaking through once a year. Is that abuse? I don't smoke DMT often but I aim for a breakthrough most times. Now I haven't smoked DMT for 4 months or more. I tend to do it in sessions.
Click to expand...

It's just an opinion and everyone has one.
 
Purges said:
In many ways, I think going for a breakthrough every time is a bit of an abuse of the molecule's wonderful powers.
Click to expand...
I haven’t had a “meaningful” breakthrough in over a year. :(

In July of 2010, I had a very deep breakthrough that has shaken me in a way I can’t describe. And the funny thing is, I don’t even remember what happened during that breakthrough.

Having said that, I believe that breakthrough experiences are very different from sub-breakthroughs, and serve a very different purpose. Sub-breakthrough doses, especially when taken with harmalas, seem to be much more like pharma/aya – very introspective and more focused on “self”.

Breakthroughs, at least for me, are less about “self” and more about “eternal self”. Breakthroughs show me a realm that lies far beyond my mind, my subconscious, and my imagination. This realm has little do with our everyday realm, and seems indifferent about our everyday human concerns. Although it’s not a place of personal healing, it seems that it is often a place of a deeper, more difficult to comprehend “soul healing”.

I’m going through several transitions in my life right now (all positive) that are demanding much of my attention, so I’m not able to partake as often as I’d like, but I’d really like to return to that deep-breakthrough realm. For me, deep breakthrough experiences achieve something that no other depth of DMT experience can. They are very important, and in my opinion, what DMT is all about.

Sub-breakthroughs are nice and can be therapeutic, but they’re no substitute for deep breakthroughs.

I also believe that low-dose experiences can lead some people to approach DMT recreationally or casually. It seems that many new people who have a few low-dose experiences think they have DMT all figured out. They most certainly don’t. :)

So I hold almost the polar opposite opinion regarding breakthroughs as held by Purges: I think lower dose experiences can lead to “abuse” and a casual, recreational approach to DMT. Some changa users talk about maintaining a low-level experience for hours on end, but to what end? Deep breakthroughs show me what DMT, combined with my mind, is really capable of, and reveals aspects that are unknown to those who choose to “swim in the shallow end”.

Finally, deep breakthroughs leave me satisfied and grateful to such an extent that, even during periods of active use, I find no need to return for a week or longer. Hardly abuse!

One more thing: The deep breakthroughs I’m talking about - the ++++ on the Shulgin Scale type of breakthroughs – are not something one can “choose” to have just by taking a particular dose. They come when they come, and a dose in excess of the minimum needed to have a breaktrough does not seem to make them any more likely to occur.
 
Hi guys,

I can't agree with gibran here that much.
Dmt can't be abused. It is not addictive in any way in my experience. We are all just a bit different people. Some like to work with it more often than others. There are phases in our lives as well. There was a time I used to held DMT rituals more often than these days. And it could come back again.

Personally I use dmt for meditation and ritual purposes. When I start mimosa extraction I tend to use all extracted dmt in one night ritual. Usually 500mg or so for 2-3 people. We start at midnight and finish at dawn. Garden, drums, dark ritual ambient, chanting, dancing...Did ever a girl danced in front of you when carrier wave hits?:shock:

I don't like this 'sub breakthrough' term so much. It seems to me that someone just didn't inhale enough spice. I hate when that happen to someone it's big waste of spice and time. I respect mimosa for it's powers, but I rarely happy just with one launch. I learned that later ones are most profound. But everyone is different animal.


Regards.
 
As usual, it is worth stressing individual differences here and mentioning that what we did/believed 6-12 months ago may not be what we do/believe today and may not be what we do/believe a year from now.

I'll be the nay-sayer here.

I think it is the frequent consumption of deep breakthrough doses that can lead to abuse. It surely did during my honeymoon period. It is a deep, gorgeous, ego destroying, reality obliterating and thus potentially escaping, experience.

The sub-breakthrough doses are an area where I get a lot of psychological work done, receive insights, get ideas for how to deal with and/or change in my now and future. Get new perspectives on my past.

Now, I'll also say that it is my belief that either abuse path described - the one by gibran2 or myself - leads one inevitably to the "self-regulating" nature of DMT - the stern female canine slap with a 2 x 4 hits right in the visage.
 
zubidlo said:
Hi guys,

I can't agree with gibran here that much.
Dmt can't be abused. It is not addictive in any way in my experience. We are all just a bit different people.
Click to expand...
You’ll note that I put the word “abuse” in quotes – I used the word because that was the word used by Purges. I suppose we would have to define the word “abuse” before we make any claims about whether or not DMT can be abused.

I agree that DMT doesn’t have any physical dependence potential, but many (most? all?) substances have potential for psychological dependency. Also, DMT can be used recreationally and casually (not that there’s anything wrong with that). Some people might say that casual, recreational use combined with psychological dependence is an abuse of the substance. I don’t make that claim. But a claim I will make is that, at least in my experience, deep breakthrough experiences do not allow for casual, recreational use, and there is no possibility of psychological dependence. I don’t think the same can be said for lower-dose experiences.
 
Pandora said:
As usual, it is worth stressing individual differences here and mentioning that what we did/believed 6-12 months ago may not be what we do/believe today and may not be what we do/believe a year from now.

I'll be the nay-sayer here.

I think it is the frequent consumption of deep breakthrough doses that can lead to abuse. It surely did during my honeymoon period. It is a deep, gorgeous, ego destroying, reality obliterating and thus potentially escaping, experience.

The sub-breakthrough doses are an area where I get a lot of psychological work done, receive insights, get ideas for how to deal with and/or change in my now and future. Get new perspectives on my past.

Now, I'll also say that it is my belief that either abuse path described - the one by gibran2 or myself - leads one inevitably to the "self-regulating" nature of DMT - the stern female canine slap with a 2 x 4 hits right in the visage.
Click to expand...
I suppose it really comes down to the types of experiences we have, especially at higher doses. My personal experience is that, particularly during the honeymoon period, lower doses always left me wanting more. There was a craving to reach a breakthrough, and I’d smoke and smoke until I got a breakthrough. (This was all pre-GVG. Since perfecting my technique with the GVG, I can reliably achieve a breakthrough based on dose.)

When I finally achieved a deep breakthrough, the experience left me feeling totally satisfied, filled with gratitude – I received a sacred gift, and have always felt there was nothing more I needed or wanted. This feeling would sustain me for a week or more – and this was during the honeymoon period of frequent use (3-4 sessions per week, 3-4 trips per session).

My deepest breakthrough of all (in March 2010) left me in a state where I felt that I would be satisfied even if I never had DMT again. I still feel that way, and I’m certain I wouldn’t feel that way if I only had low-dose experiences.

Finally, I totally agree that lower-dose experiences can be psychologically therapeutic. DMT (with harmalas) allows me to see my subconscious directly, and it strips away all of the protective layers that in everyday life I’m not even aware surround me.

At lower doses, it seems like we have more choices about how to approach the experience. If we want to approach it recreationally, we can. If we want to approach it as a healing tool, we can do that. But at higher doses, at least in my experience, there is little choice involved. The experience imposes strict limits on how I can respond.

Finally, there are many experience reports on this site and elsewhere that describe using DMT in a recreational way, and they all (or nearly all) involve using lower doses. It’s very rare to read about someone who has taken a very high dose of DMT and casually describes the experience as recreational.
 
DMT is exactly the same as psilocin for me, other than that you can smoke DMT. Alot of people go to concerts etc with mushrooms and to be honest, you can do all of those things with DMT as well as long as you monitor your doses. I would be willing to bet that most people here could not tell DMT and psilocin apart durring the peak of the experiences, unless maybe harmalas are taken with DMT orally. I think that low dose smoked DMT is just so fast it is hard for some people to ease into, compared to mushrooms or oral DMT..

I have taken DMT outdoors in parks and at beaches many times, but never really in large social situations other than festivals..but I like to take 1-2 grams of mushrooms at festivlas etc. I dont really see any problem with this sort of "recreational" use..I believe that mushrooms were most likely used in traditional celtic and pagan culture anyway at festivals.

There is a trend I think to put DMT on a pedistal when compared to mushrooms specifically, and perhaps other substances. Personally I dont find DMT any more powerful than mushrooms..take enough mushrooms and a 5 minute DMT trip sounds like a walk in the park. If anyone here really likes and respects DMT and has never worked with mushrooms I would suggest it..one of the strongest breakthroughs I ever had was with a handful of psilocybe cyanescens and it lasted hours.

Mushrooms are great as well becasue you can just take a gram or 2 and it is basically just like a low dose DMT trip that lasts for hours..so you can save your DMT for breakthroughs if you do not have a whole lot of it..mushrooms grow everywhere and they grow fast and you can grow them at home. DMT is a little bit more rare.

DMT and psilocin(and ayahuasca) are my favorites and I love them in all the different doses. Lighter doses are at times more theraputic and I can focus more on introspection. Large doses are good as well but can be so difficult that durring the peak all you can do is try to breath through it.
 
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