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Breakthough on jimjam acetates, just as potent as freebase no doubt.

Migrated topic.
q21q21

q21q21

SWIM
OG Pioneer
So SWIM likes to kill 2 birds with 1 stone with his tests, this time he killed 4.

Test 1:
Can jimjam acetates be salted out of xylene (and THOROUGHLY evaporated) into a smokable product?
Answer: Yes, very much so! They are like taffy, instead of a thick gel like limonene-pulled ones!

Test 2: Does using a bubbler make the smoke less harsh?
Answer: Yes! SWIM wasn't sure he was smoking at all until thick white smoke was leaking from his lips!

Test 3: Can jimjam acetates be smoked for a breakthrough dose?
Answer: Yes, yes, yes

Test 4: Is SWIM ready for another strong pharma
Answer: Not yet, he freaked out, he needs to make peace with DMT again.

Here is SWIM's psychedelic journal entry

March 9th, 2010

7:00
just coming down from a very strong jimjam acetate trip, The bubbler-machine was filled with 52mg, 39.4mg freebase with 1.32% weight conversion. It is a little gooey to work with I thought I'd put enough for a breakthrough and not smoke it all. I didn't even come close to coming close to finishing it BTW

Anyway unlike last time it REALLY took me and this is something I NEED to make peace with before I pharma again. I was really cowering and feeling that it was going to show me something that I wasn't ready for.

My inner monologue was litterally "Oh shit... this is going to be one to remember, this isn't just a dream I'm going to be SHOWN this.... shit... okay, I'm safe... I'm okay, lets just let it happen... it'll be over soon"

I was really very very present ego-wise during the whole process, the visuals on jimjam are INSANELY POTENT.

But the healing and teaching potential came at the end when I was thinking about the fact that I never actually bawled at all about my pharma trip. It was wretchly the most crazy and terrifying experience and I ran from it the whole way, I never cried.

Anyway while think about that fact the visuals literally became completely crying entities and terrified faces. I was feeling the amazing "I am back" euphoria so I didn't feel the sadness or anything, but the thoughts completely turned visual, it was freaky. The jimjam totally "read my thoughts" it was pretty weird
Click to expand...


EDIT (post is below, but SWIM hopes this thread will be popular and it will need to be on the original post):

OH MY HAMBURGERS!!!

SWIM now knows why they were just as potent as freebase. THEY WERE FREEBASE!

SWIM discovered it while making a sublingual tincture out of the rest of the goo.

He used 4ml of hot tap water for ~250mg of alkaloids and he was surprised that the mix was milky and not dissolving well.
He then added 1ml of 5% vinegar and BAM it turned clear and yellow!

That tell SWIM that in the very simple process of using a flat-bottomed container over boiling water he vaporized all the acetates leaving freebase.
Clearly this is the only solution since no other state of the alkaloids would react as so, not dissolving in water then immediately converting with a small amount of vinegar added.

Now this is not an original process, apparently it has been used in the past for harmalas and recently by blueskine via food dehyrator.

SWIM's process is much less expensive he supposes and though the posted boiling point for DMT is 60-80C SWIM knows that is way off.
WAY back in his bulb-vaporizer days he thought he'd use some water to prevent the spice from burning.
Do you think he got anything but steam before all the water was gone? NO! And he ended up burning the spice and getting ~5-6mg worth of effects from 25mg.

You can also use the flat-bottom dish over a simmer pot, it will just be slower.

(SWIM knows this is a micky mouse statement, he's pretty excited and hasn't the time for organization...)
 
this is very cool..

What is the boiling point for the acetates I am wondering?..i guess you just need to be a bit more careful with the lighter to make sure not to burn the stuff?
 
OH MY HAMBURGERS!!!

SWIM now knows why they were just as potent as freebase. THEY WERE FREEBASE!

SWIM discovered it while making a sublingual tincture out of the rest of the goo.

He used 4ml of hot tap water for ~250mg of alkaloids and he was surprised that the mix was milky and not dissolving well.
He then added 1ml of 5% vinegar and BAM it turned clear and yellow!

That tell SWIM that in the very simple process of using a flat-bottomed container over boiling water he vaporized all the acetates leaving freebase.
Clearly this is the only solution since no other state of the alkaloids would react as so, not dissolving in water then immediately converting with a small amount of vinegar added.

Now this is not an original process, apparently it has been used in the past for harmalas and recently by blueskine via food dehyrator.

SWIM's process is much less expensive he supposes and though the posted boiling point for DMT is 60-80C SWIM knows that is way off.
WAY back in his bulb-vaporizer days he thought he'd use some water to prevent the spice from burning.
Do you think he got anything but steam before all the water was gone? NO! And he ended up burning the spice and getting ~5-6mg worth of effects from 25mg.
(this was pure white freebase pull with naptha)

You can also use the flat-bottom dish over a simmer pot, it will just be slower.

(SWIM knows this is a micky mouse statement, he's pretty excited and hasn't the time for organization...)
 
benzyme said:
the title is a bit misleading, a free base form of a compound will always be more potent (by weight) than its salt derivative.

and acetate salts will remain in solution, swiy'll just vaporize water (resulting in a saturated solution or crystals of acetate salts).
Click to expand...

True it WAS misleading, but in fact if the post is read carefully SWIM found that the process of evaporation made the acetates convert into freebase, this process has been described before by blueskine and 69ron said it has been used in the past with harmalas.

Thanks for reading though :p
 
SWIM is a terrible kemist, he works on result and experience. Take a splash of acetic acid and have it evaporate over a simmering pot, never directly heated, only by the water.

Once the liquid is gone there will be nothing there. That and the fact that the resulting alkaloids smoked just like freebase jimjam and would not dissolve in water without adding vinegar is the only proof SWIM needs.

SWIM has done this in the oven at 200C in mescaline extractions, several times there were no alkaloids at all and no "acetate crystals" either

If someone with more chemistry knowledge can tell SWIM how it works then he could explain it better, but at this point SWIM just knows it works.

benzyme said:
this scheme doesn't make sense..

so you're saying acetate anions will be dissociated from the dmt base, and present in the water vapor?
what did the product look like?
Click to expand...

the product is an orangey-red goo.


cheers
 
Ben, he tries to say that by heating up the acetates during the drying process the acetic evaporated thus leaving freebases

So in the beginning he tried to smoke the acetates thinking they are acetates....but in practise they were freebases. He found out by trying to dissolve the alleged acetates in water - they wouldn't dissolve because of their freebase nature and addition of acetic acid was the only thing to aid the dissolution.
 
Q21q21 is taking advantage of the nature of acetic acid. Acetates are inherently fragile. Acetates like harmaline acetate will break apart and form acetic acid vapor and freebase harmaline if heated leaving behind pure freebase harmaline powder. This is true for some other acetates as well. Apparently, DMT acetate also comes apart if heated enough.

This is a chemistry trick that only works with weak salts. Acetates are some of the weakest salts around. Acetic acid is known for this.

The reason many drugs are not in acetate form, is because some acetates break apart even at room temperature, if given enough time. So acetates are often not used in pharmaceuticals. They don't come apart in solution though.

Of course the utility of this depends highly on the specific salt used. Not all acetates will comes apart if heated. Harmaline acetate is proven to degrade into acetic acid and harmaline on heating, and SWIM tested it out and it definitely does that. You can see it go from yellow to off white after heating it, and it's no longer soluble in water after that.

Bufotenine acetate and mescaline acetate probably also come apart in this way. That may explain why some people get poor results from the vinegar based mescaline extractions. If mescaline acetate is heated enough, it likely forms freebase mescaline, and then mescaline N-oxide rapidly forms, and the potency is decreased dramatically.

SWIM played around with mescaline acetate, and found that with repeated drying with heat, it eventually turned into an oil. Freebase mescaline is an oil.

I think this trick should be looked into more. It doesn’t work with all alkaloids though. It’s known to work with harmaline but NOT harmine. I'm not sure why.
 
benzyme said:
it sounds like SWIY may have smoked DMT acetate salts, which might explain the 4-5mg effect from 25mg (the acetate anions add more mass)
dmt acetate should vape at over 100C

what SWIY could do is basify with ammonia then extract with whichever solvent swiy prefers

acetic acid is great, it's all SWIM uses for extractions
Click to expand...

Okay SWIM knows that sometimes he gets excited and writes quickly, leaving out information.

For that statement

1: that was white freebase obtained via noman's STB tek
2: that was in a lightbulb vaporizer and was over 6 months ago, that is the reason for the effects
3: read the report please. What SWIM smoked the product he was really taken far, it was so intense he felt that it was way too much,
these are not the effects from a 20% efficiency smoking.

SWIM knows you are skeptical but really he'd appreciate a little faith.
 
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