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Can the religious/spirtual beliefs taught to us as children ever leave us?

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digglover

digglover

Rising Star
Today I went to Easter Sunday church service with my family. This was more of a formality and a family bonding thing than religious as I'm not sure where I stand on religion at this moment exactly - I'm searching. I believe their is a God, but I don't know if its the Christian God or something else. I will have to study more and make up for myself regarding what I believe, but I am wondering about the biases that will affect my decisions and research.

I was taught from birth in my home and school that Jesus and Christianity is the one, true religion. Even today, I have an incredibly hard time shaking this idea. The more I read about the Bible, Christianity, and its origins, the more doubts I have. However, no matter how many doubts I seem to amass, I cannot seem to dismiss Christianity's ideas. I assume that this is the same for anyone of any religion they have been taught since they were young, whether muslim, hindu, or part of any other world religions.

I feel as if I will be stuck in my spiritual endeavors until I determine the validity of Jesus and Christianity, and yet I can't seem to do just that! These ideas are so embedded in me!

Are the teachings of our parents (especially regarding religion/spirituality) ever possible to break free from?
Have you nexians been able to abandon the teachings you all were taught as children? How did you do this?
 
I grew up and was completely brainwashed by religions and society.

Then I started working with entheogens and they helped me in meditation realize who I truly am, and we've been defragmenting the mind ever since. Yes, it is possible. I recommend working with the medicines, they are our greatest allies when it comes to Clarity.

best wishes,
 
Let me play the devils advocate here:

Growing up in a religious environment opened me up for the possibility of extrasenseous existence. Moreover, I'd often think about things like the beginning of time, the creation and stuff like that.

On the downside, it has always been hard to fit in as a non christian. Some parts of the family accept it, some would think it's destroying the family.

I can think that you can shake it to some degree, but the "god beeing" I've talked to sounded like the god I talked to as a child so...I'm not sure about completely removing it. And why should you? It's part of you, because you went through this episode of your life.
 
House said:
I grew up and was completely brainwashed by religions and society.
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I was to unfortunately, but for me it never felt right even when I was really small. I would always question everything, as nothing I was taught resonated with me at all. When I was 13 I became really interested in the Wicca and Pagan philosophy of life. The idea that we are deeply connected with the earth really resonated with me deeply as I have always really loved nature and our beautiful earth. I started to dig deeper, I read the Koran as well as many books on Hinduism and eastern philosophy. When I was 16 I came across Tibetan Buddhist philosophy, this discovery was a monumental one as it was the first philosophy of thought that I had come across that said question everything.

That's exactly what I do, I'm still searching for answers through my entheogen journey, Shamanism and Tibetan Buddhist philosophy. I went to India for a month to find more answers though I found many answers through Buddhism and my travels, I'm not Buddhist. I just take thoughts and concepts I come across that resonate with me and make sense and compile then all together into my own unique philosophy of life. I think we all have our own personal truth, you must never give up searching and trying to find answers to your questions my friend. Question everything...


Much Peace and Sunshine
 
Digglover, I would suggest you read other sacred texts such as the buddhist scriptures. Learning more about other religions may help you to shake off the less helpful Christian teachings, because you will see the differences between the religions but also see the similarities. Christianity is actually quite a good set of ethics when done according to Jesus' teachings... it's just the anti-everyone-who-isn't-like-us mentality that ruins, which does not follow Jesus' teachings whatsoever, and the anti-gay sentiment, which incidentally Jesus never expressed an opinion on and is only expressed twice at the very beginning of the Bible at the same time that they were stoning women to death for adultery so I don't see the writer's of the early Bible as spiritually ethical people. Neither did Jesus. God did not write the Bible, that they declared 'he' told them to do such awful things is the real travesty. Jesus rejected a lot of the earlier rules. The Ten Commandments stood, but that's not a problem really.

Also, read postmodern philosophy- 'Introducing... Nietsche' tackles religion (you don't have to agree with all he says but his criticisms of Christianity are enlightening)- and reading some psychology is really good because it will help you understand why it is that religious people act the way they do... 'Introducing... Freud', and the psychology and postmodern philosophy titles too. All this should help.

I expect if you were raised Christian you could have major guilt issues (one of the better points Nietsche discusses). This may sound like overkill to you but if you have the opportunity, seeing a psychologist (who isn't a hardline Christian!) could help. And read 'Feeling Good' by David D. Burns.

And a bit of responsible entheogen use to put you in touch with your spirituality more directly, although this isn't actually necessary other than to put you back in touch with god if you feel that all this spiritual education has left you unsure of whether there really is a god or not. Truth be told, I do not know whether there really is or not. I hope there is. I just try to live a good life, because I know in my heart that if there is a god worth worshipping then that would be all he required.

You don't really need to reject all of Christianity. After all, Jesus was a really cool guy. It's not necessary to abandon faith in Yahweh/Jahovah/The Lord... whatever you want to call god, people are all praying to the same entity. Just don't get caught up in all the man-made rules passed off as the word of god. Most intelligent Christians see the Bible just as stories and view god as far more unfathomable that the beardy angry guy in the sky that he is personified as by some.

Actually, reading the entire bible was what made me finally dismiss taking it literally. Honestly, it's inethical nonsense... there is a lot in there that they hide from you, such as men trying to rape male angels, faithful men stoning adulterous women to death in the name of god, murder, conquest, prostitution, god's 'chosen ones' having concubines (= servants you have sex with, which sounds like what we now call sex slavery to me), sexism, all sorts of contradictions, and you will find that a lot of what modern Christians teach isn't even in the Bible.

My family did not teach me anything, my school was Christian so I had to go to church twice weekly and study the Bible but fortunately I wasn't brainwashed by manic Christian parents, unlike my cousins (who seemed to turn out alright in the end despite their borderline insane mother's born-again ravings). My Dad was discreetly new-age, though I found that embarrassing as a child. Now, I guess I was lucky in that respect.
 
I consider myself lucky because I was not religiously brainwashed in my childhood. I think it is a mistake for parents to make their children believe the same set of unproven/unprovable ideas they do. When kids are at young age parents themselves are like gods for them - omniscient and omnipotent. Children are completely dependent on them and did not develop critical abilities yet. That is why sometimes it is impossible to get rid of early childhood imprinting. Be careful with that.

With serious education in physics I have been staunch materialist for most of my life. Since I have encountered entheogens I have become more of an agnostic. I think every organized religion is BS. There are lots of reasons - exclusivity and theodicy, to name just a few.

Individual mystical experience is so complex and personal that it will never completely fit into any limited set of dogmas. Once this experience is squeezed through the language bottleneck it becomes hopelessly reduced. This priceless experience is what is relevant for me and should be for any sentient thinking person, not beliefs and judgements of others.

I believe entheogens are unique instruments that can help the practitioner to shed even earliest brainwashing.
 
ohayoco said:
Christianity is actually quite a good set of ethics when done according to Jesus' teachings...
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They did not invent anything new. Ethics is a species survival mechanism and has been invented by evolution. At least it has been known to many pre-christianity cultures.

If people behaved exactly "according to Jesus' teachings" humanity would have been probably dead or extremely backward.

Don't you see that the whole "war on drugs" have obvious religious roots?
 
Trickster said:
Don't you see that the whole "war on drugs" have obvious religious roots?
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I can't see that. Yes, the "war on drugs" have roots in the cultures surrounding Christianity, but not in Christianity as Jesus taught it. Jesus taught the message of love and sharing of resources. He taught that God was to be found inside you. Christianity today is totally reversed, a perverted religion that has no connection with its roots.
 
Exactly. Jesus was an anarcho-comunist with great empathy, understanding and tolerance for his fellow beings. Christians don't seem to follow his teachings. Trickster, if all people behaved as he taught, life would be paradise. And I never claimed his ideas to be unique, quite the opposite.

All major religions have been perverted in some way by those seeking to control others, but that doesn't mean you have to reject the essence that started them. An awareness of different religions and philosophy helps to identify the corruption.
 
My parents brought me up in a very open minded way... I was never forced to believe anything blindly and I was greatly encouraged to question everything and find my own answers, both my parents were hippies that knew that there was more to the world than it seems at first glance.

So they decided to instill strong morals in my early childhood so that I had a foundation that I could add to and grow on. Most people I met in society while growing up would try and push and brainwash me with their beliefs. I learnt very quickly that people and society as a whole had little tolerance for someone who questions everything...


Much Peace and Rainbows
 
ohayoco said:
Exactly. Jesus was an anarcho-comunist with great empathy, understanding and tolerance for his fellow beings. Christians don't seem to follow his teachings.
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Tolerance? The bible is full of examples of his intolerance. Besides, he is a faithful son of god. Remember the god of the old testament? Petty, wrathfull, vengenful.

ohayoco said:
Trickster, if all people behaved as he taught, life would be paradise.
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Don't think so. Besides he was not original. Give me one example of his teachings that was not known to humanity before him.

ohayoco said:
All major religions have been perverted in some way by those seeking to control others, but that doesn't mean you have to reject the essence that started them. An awareness of different religions and philosophy helps to identify the corruption.
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That is a popular idea promoted mostly by christians in order to save christianity.

Don't you think we have outgrown christianity/judaism/islam as we did religions of Ancient Greece, Egypt, Messopotamia?
 
digglover said:
Today I went to Easter Sunday church service with my family. This was more of a formality and a family bonding thing than religious as I'm not sure where I stand on religion at this moment exactly - I'm searching. I believe their is a God, but I don't know if its the Christian God or something else. I will have to study more and make up for myself regarding what I believe, but I am wondering about the biases that will affect my decisions and research.
Are the teachings of our parents (especially regarding religion/spirituality) ever possible to break free from?
Have you nexians been able to abandon the teachings you all were taught as children? How did you do this?
Click to expand...

I also went to a beautiful, candle-lit, sunrise Easter Sunday service. I was raised in an abusive Roman Catholic Church, that place is FUCKED, how they just move priests they know to be child abusers around without telling parents that their priest is a known abuser. At about age 11 I realized that what I was taught was bullcrap, and I found a lot of inspiration through the writings of agnostics/humanists like Bertrand Russell.

To answer your questions, yes you will break free from the teachings of your parents, there are many ways to de-condition and there are many tools available for this. I abandoned the brainwashing forced down my throat as a child, mainly through what i learned from Rationalists such as Bertrand Russell.

I have entered a new phase of my life journey, one that's been underway for a number of years but that's really been confirmed by the writings of Joseph Campbell. I've realized that underneath all of the main religions there are elements of universal truth. One can take the established "myths" (in Joseph Campbell's sense, basically a story about the universe we find useful in constructing ideas about who we are, where we're from, where we're going in this ocean of chaos), find the seeds of universal truth contained therein, and then re-mythologize one's life in order to transcend one's previous existence.

For example, with Easter, the guiding "myth" is that Jesus was given a criminal's death, abandoned by his friends on his execution day, then buried in a criminal cemetary, then 3 days later his body was gone, and he was supposedly Resurrected into Eternal Life. The "Resurrection" story was NOT a part of the original stories about Jesus, it was added later on. Most Christians consider belief in this story to be the litmus test for whether someone is or is not a Christian. It's pretty well established that this story did not literally happen, so I'm not a Christian by this standard.

However, there are universal truths contained in this myth, this guiding story. The universal truth pertains to Resurrection. All life is resurrected. After this awful winter, the flowers are blooming, birds are singing, and the weather is sweet. Easter is an ancient festival celebrating this return of life, and it was celebrated long before Jesus. This process of re-mythologizing the literal stories of Christianity can be applied to the literal teachings of many religions. I've found it's a very powerful way to go to the heart of a religion, find what seeds of universal truth are contained there, and then take these seeds and plant them.

Best wishes in working through this process, you're not at all alone.
 
This is all excellent advice. It is good to know that others have been able to shed the beliefs taught to them when they were young (I was thinking it was impossible and it was a bit hopeless). I am especially grateful to the books recommendations and will give those a read.

I suppose one of the main issues for me is that I have found that Christianity has such a good set of truths and morals. Yes, their are definitely problems, and these are where my doubts come in. I think this is what makes it difficult for me. I am looking for a "black and white" issue when it really isn't one.

Thank you all for the advice.
 
ohayoco said:
You don't really need to reject all of Christianity. After all, Jesus was a really cool guy.
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Whose Jesus? Looking at the synoptic gospels, yeah Jesus is a cool guy in Mark, Luke, and Matthew. Then you get to John and Jesus starts blathering the whole everyone-but-us-is-wrong-and-is-doomed-to-hell shtick. And actually, all of the synoptic gospels agree that Christ established the concept of Hell... Hell didn't exist in early Judaism, it was a unique creation of Christianity to believe that everyone who happened not to agree with them should be condemned to eternal suffering. But of course, it's likely that none of those gospels' authors ever met Jesus, so it's more fair to say (if we neglect the negative aspects of his teachings) that "Jesus was a really cool idea" than "Jesus was a really cool guy" (I'm not disputing that there historically was a man name Jesus, just that we have no reliable accounts of what he was like as a person). And if we look at Paul (who definitely never met Jesus, but was instrumental in establishing Christianity), we start to see all kinds of fucked up misogynistic backwards doctrine is ascribed to Christ in his writings (including condemnation of homosexuality... that's not unique to the old testament).

It takes some selective reading to interpret Christ as the loving dude he's cracked up to be, and even then he's more an idea than a person. So yes, there's value to be found in Jesus's teachings, but it seems to me that you have to divorce Christ from many parts of the new testament to find the value. Just like there is value to be found in some of the parables of the Old Testament, but there's also some seriously evil shit in there (men raping angels isn't the worst of it... to save the angels, the one godly man in town offered up his own daughters for the mob to gangrape instead.... WTF!).

I think that in order to find the value in the Bible, it's practically necessary to approach it from a non-Christian perspective.



For myself, I was lucky enough not to be indoctrinated with religion at an early age. My mother had the family attend the anglican church for a few years when I was young (age 4-7 or so), though I think she did it more out of guilt, thinking that it was something she should do, rather than really believing that it was right to indoctrinate children. My father went too, even though he was an atheist (which I didn't know until many years later, when I'd already come to atheism through my own reasoning). But it really didn't make much of an impression on me; at that age, I found it boring. I think church as an institution is more useful for adults, for the community and social networking it fosters.

I've read religious books of many different faiths, and found value in many of them. I think this is good exercise for the mind as well as good food for thought. But to ground the religious teachings, I recommend reading some books that take an opposing view as well. I think Richard Dawkin's book The God Delusion is useful for its exploration of the logical arguments for the existence of God. Many religious people are under the impression that you can proove the existence of God by applying logic and reason. I think everyone, religious or not, would do well to dispel themselves of this notion. None of the arguments hold up. If one wants to have faith that there is a God, I think it's best to recognize that it is faith, rather than delude oneself that it can be definitively established as true. And of course that begs the question: why is faith good? Why is it a virtue to believe things without evidence? (I'm not asserting that faith is bad, just that this is a question a person should be able to answer if they make faith a foundation of their life.... and it's a question most of the faithful seem not to have considered!)

Personally, I'd say I'm a "teapot atheist". I don't explicitly believe there is no God; God's non-existence cannot be absolutely proven. But the non-existence of leprechauns can't be absolutely proven either, yet I do not live my life concerned with the existence/non-existence of leprechauns. Likewise, I really don't concern myself with the existence of God. If it's the Judeo-Christian God, then I'm comfortable not worshipping... I have no respect for any God that could be so evil and downright petty. Although, I should admit that despite my atheism, I'm entirely comfortable discussing God as an actual force in the world, so long as I take the pantheist definition of God, rather than the definitions of organized religions.
 
digglover said:
I feel as if I will be stuck in my spiritual endeavors until I determine the validity of Jesus and Christianity, and yet I can't seem to do just that! These ideas are so embedded in me!
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Or expand your view even further than what you've appraised as essential to get "un-stuck."
 
digglover said:
I am especially grateful to the books recommendations and will give those a read.
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I would like to add Sam Harris' The End of Faith. It's on the Internet. He has an interesting paragraph on religion and war on drugs.

Regarding the burden that our parents put on us while solving their own problems I would suggest books by James Hollis - Through the Dark Woods, Swamplands of the Soul, Under the Saturn's Shadow, and others.

There is a wonderful audiobook that I've downloaded from the Internet. It is called Working Through Our Rejection and Abandonment. Unfortunately I could not find its author.

digglover said:
I suppose one of the main issues for me is that I have found that Christianity has such a good set of truths and morals.
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IMO there is something inherently flawed in the morals instilled by fear. Morals based on completely free will are much more valuable.

Doing good for a reward also seems suspicious.

Here I would like to suggest Anthony Demello - Wakeup to Life and Wellsprings. He was a Jesuit prist, but not very religious. He quotes the bible a lot but interprets it in an unusual way.
 
Digglover

The best advice I can give you when it comes to reading material is read as much as possible on as many different philosophies as you can, keep an open mind and an open heart...


Much Peace and Compassion
 
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