I don't understand why this is happening. So I tried the capsules method a couple of times. First a 10x syrian rue extract (I didn't extract and yea, lots of people already told me it's probably bunk) and about 30-60 minutes later the plain mimosa powder capsules. I did 2.5g first and the second try I did 6g of mimosa, with 350mg and then 450mg of the 10x rue extract. Both times an hour went by after ingesting the mimosa and I thought "yea, this didn't work, don't really notice anything... I hope it's just the harmalas that are crap and not my mimosa"... but then after about hour 2 after ingesting the mimosa I start feeling something. The first time it was faint, hard to say for sure, but this second time it was definitely something. Now don't get me wrong, I didn't blast off, I didn't get visions, but I felt a very familiar sense of being on a low dose of vaped dmt, with that "HD candyland" quality to open eye vision, it was like a long stable weak vaped dose and it lasted for maybe one or two hours and then I felt "sober" again. Can someone explain to me what the heck is going on here?
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Capsuled Rue+Mimosa... I don't understand
- Thread starter brazilman
- Start date
I've never heard of anyone using unprocessed mimosa powder. Do the math, add research doses- I'm not going to- if your mimosa contained a (whopping) 2% dmt, would the amount you ate contain enough dmt?
And yes, rue is easy to extract and cheap to source, so...
And yes, rue is easy to extract and cheap to source, so...
Sabnock1990
Be Your Own Shaman
Yeah as i mentioned in my PM, it's the Harmalas/MAO-A inhibition or lack thereof. 10x Rue extracts suck and often times don't work right. You wanna encapsulate either the Rue seed powder, or a freebased Rue full spectrum extract, or freebased/hcl purified Harmala extract, and then once you get the MAO-A inhibition dosage going good, the rest will fall into place.
With full on MAO-A inhibition i was able to take 3 to 4 capsules of Mimosa root powder and get quite the low (but still intense/powerful) stable dose effects out of it. But this was back in 2012 so idk the quality of the root on the market today though i would think it'd still be fine. After awhile though i decided on the residue capsules because ingesting all that root powder was heavy on the stomach, and the residues worked very well.
Ime, 1 gram of Mimosa had a little bit of a psychostimulant feel to it, but not much really happened at 1 gram, at 2.5 to 3 grams though that's the nice stable low dose that i used to take when i first started out, and 5 grams to 7 grams is a good moderate to high dosage, 8 grams of Mimosa was usually too strong for me.
With full on MAO-A inhibition i was able to take 3 to 4 capsules of Mimosa root powder and get quite the low (but still intense/powerful) stable dose effects out of it. But this was back in 2012 so idk the quality of the root on the market today though i would think it'd still be fine. After awhile though i decided on the residue capsules because ingesting all that root powder was heavy on the stomach, and the residues worked very well.
Ime, 1 gram of Mimosa had a little bit of a psychostimulant feel to it, but not much really happened at 1 gram, at 2.5 to 3 grams though that's the nice stable low dose that i used to take when i first started out, and 5 grams to 7 grams is a good moderate to high dosage, 8 grams of Mimosa was usually too strong for me.
Yea I'm getting some seeds to experiment with. One thing I'm concerned about now is that from what I've read, there seems to be a high likelyhood that the lemon essential oil's anti-nausea properties (same for potential substitutes) also act to block the visual component of trips. I'll have to do some more experimenting and I'll keep you guys informed.
Sabnock1990
Be Your Own Shaman
I generally don't get closed eyed visuals from Psychedelics anyways, but i haven't really heard anything about Lemon EO blocking out visuals, i've taken it with 4-ACO-DMT and got open eyed visuals just fine, have taken it with the Rue and get the trailing/tracers and everything else i usually get from the Rue. As for Lemon EO's anti-nausea properties, some say it's due to 5-HT3 receptor antagonism but that's not the case, as far as i know it was disputed that beta-pinene has 5-HT3 antagonism, i've also tried Zofran, Peppermint, and Ginger which are 5-HT3 antagonists and they didn't help much at all, even drastically altered the effects in a very undesirable way for some odd reason though myself and at least one other person i've communicated with took too much Zofran (due to it being potentiated by the Harmalas's CYP1A2 and CYP2D6 inhibition) so while i haven't tested the Zofran out any further, taking a smaller dosage due to the potentiation could perhaps work a lot better than taking an already high/heavy Zofran dosage on top of the drastic potentiation from the Harmalas. As far as Ginger goes, i've tried both Ginger root and Ginger EO and at least with the EO it hasn't worked all that well so far, and i could've perhaps used a bit too much Ginger root but i don't think Ginger will do much. Peppermint seemed to work a bit better, but i still have to reinvestigate it to make sure. Lemon EO so far has been the only thing besides Cannabis that seems to really help the gut but doesn't undesirably alter anything so far ime.
ShamensStamen said:
I think it's the closed eyed visuals that are blocked. I can't find the posts right now but I've read reports, like people noticing that their pharmahuasca trips went from strong visuals to no visuals once they added the lemon essential oil. There is also the reports of oral bufotenine using lemon essential oil to cut the nausea, resulting in a bufo experience that is devoid of the strong visual component usually associated with it. And my own limited experience here. I did get some change in my open eye vision, that sort of hd candyland effect, but nothing with closed eyes, not even the faint cevs that I got when I vaped small amounts of dmt. Perhaps it's not the case but I think there may be a strong possibility that it is.
Yea but you don't care about CEVs. I kind of do.
Sabnock1990
Be Your Own Shaman
Well just don't speculate, nothing is certain until you try it for yourself and see what happens. But to do that, you need to consume a proper dosage of the MAO-A inhibition, and then time the DMT right so that it's fully orally active, then if you want to add in the Lemon EO and give it a try, by all means. A friend of mine has also taken Lemon EO with his Aya and he said he got cevs still, so idk. I can't think of any pharmacological/physical action of the Lemon EO that could reduce visuals, i know Limonene acts as an Adenosine A2A agonist which i'm not sure but Adenosine A2A shares a complex with like the D2 and D3 receptors, and the Metabotropic Glutamate 5 receptor, and the Cannabinoid 1 receptor, and Alpha-Pinene inhibits Acetylcholinesterase (which Harmalas also do), and there was a study i read awhile back saying that Lemon EO might activate the Serotonin 1A receptor, but Psychedelics in general also do that. Also don't forget that Lemon EO is also found in Lemon juice which people use for their mushrooms (Lemontek) and while i'm not sure if they're consuming 10 drops of Lemon EO in their Lemon juice, there's still some Lemon EO in there and yet doesn't seem to be an issue. Also don't forget that Lemon EO is terpenes, which are found not only in Cannabis but also many many others plants, and terpenes play a large role in Cannabis's effects yet Cannabis potentiates (but can cloud the headspace, due to the THC) the Psychedelic experience, visuals and all.
And while i don't get much in the way of closed eyed visuals, i have gotten a precognitive vision on Aya that was as clear as day with closed eyes, so it's not that i'm incapable of getting them, it's just not much of a part of the experience for me personally. I've also gotten some closed eyed visuals from the Rue without the DMT, with the Lemon EO in the mix, i also get quite clear third eye/mental imagery with eyes open from the Rue with Lemon EO in the mix.
Perhaps try playing around with the Lemon EO dosage a bit and see if you notice anything.
And while i don't get much in the way of closed eyed visuals, i have gotten a precognitive vision on Aya that was as clear as day with closed eyes, so it's not that i'm incapable of getting them, it's just not much of a part of the experience for me personally. I've also gotten some closed eyed visuals from the Rue without the DMT, with the Lemon EO in the mix, i also get quite clear third eye/mental imagery with eyes open from the Rue with Lemon EO in the mix.
Perhaps try playing around with the Lemon EO dosage a bit and see if you notice anything.
Sabnock1990
Be Your Own Shaman
Also last i checked, it's been said that 5-MEO-DMT/Bufo toad venom isn't visual like regular DMT is, so idk.
Sabnock1990
Be Your Own Shaman
brazilman said:
Interesting, i should try some Bufo then and see if i get anything from it, doubtful though lol. I've had Changa, Aya/Pharma, 4-ACO-DMT, Mushrooms, up to 3 hits of LSD and up to 2 hits of 25-D Nbome, rarely ever get closed eyed visuals, but i have had issues with mental visualization especially with closed eyes all my life so probably has to do with that.
But yeah try it out and get back to me with your findings. When i tried Lemon EO with my Rue and Acacia, it still worked as fine as ever although it was altered in what i would consider an interesting way but i didn't notice the Lemon EO taking away from anything, and it's common for admixture plants and such to alter the experience in various ways.
But the way i see it, unless one is wanting to try to get around the nausea with the Lemon EO, then there's really no reason to include the Lemon EO except for maybe some anxiety relief but Lemon Balm helps with that just fine. As for the nausea, Cannabis helps, but building up the Harmala reverse tolerance by consuming the Harmalas/Rue regularly (like a few times a week) for a few weeks ime does away with all the nausea, vomiting, diarrhea, cleans up the body load and reduces the motor function impairment even with heavy Harmala dosages, so if one really wants to get around the nausea/vomiting with the Harmalas and they have the time/ability to do so, regular Harmala consumption can help. Otherwise, only other option i know of is to use Moclobemide (a pharmaceutical reversible MAO-A inhibitor) to orally activate the DMT which wouldn't cause any purgative effects, but then you'd miss out on some of the Harmala aspects which makes Aya what it is, with Moclobemide DMT is just oral DMT (or Mimosa/Acacia/Chacruna/Chaliponga) which is still interesting but it's not Aya.
Sabnock1990
Be Your Own Shaman
Ime i actually used the Lemon EO with some full spectrum Rue extract each time i took it to block out the nausea/vomiting long enough to build up the Harmala reverse tolerance, so yeah ime at least it's certainly doable. Me personally, when i was taking Harmalas regularly it was a nightly thing, so i'd take it every night, but a few times a week like 3 to 4 times a week, maybe even as little as 2 times a week (not sure though) would be enough to build up the reverse tolerance. It usually took me about a couple weeks iirc for the Harmala-related side-effects to clear up/go away, and the Lemon EO, like Lemon Balm does, cleans up how the Harmalas/Rue feels so it wasn't like i had to suffer through it much, a lot of the undesirable effects were blocked out and when the reverse tolerance was built up i stopped taking the Lemon EO and the Harmalas/Rue felt as clean as it usually does when the reverse tolerance is built up.
Also as the reverse tolerance builds up the Harmala/Rue dosage gets stronger and stronger, so what i would do is take the same dosage until it gets too strong, then back the dosage down a little bit and continue on until that dosage got too strong, back the dosage down some more and keep doing that, eventually i only needed a little bit of Harmalas/Rue for a full on dosage, so it saves on plant material in the long run. With Lemon EO or Lemon Balm with the Harmalas/Rue though, it can be a bit difficult to determine how strong the Rue/Harmalas are because the Lemon EO, and Lemon Balm, both clean up how the Rue/Harmalas feel, but for me i can still tell when things get a bit too strong because i can still feel some of the bodyload but it feels much cleaner compared to how it'd feel without the Lemon EO or Lemon Balm.
Just keep in mind this is all experimentation/trial and error, so it can take a few tries and dosage adjustments to really figure things out and get things down right, you learn as you go along, so if you mess up somewhere don't worry just make some adjustments and keep going
Edit - Also keep in mind that the more regularly the Rue/Harmalas is consumed, and the higher the dosage of the Rue/Harmalas, the faster the reverse tolerance will build up, the less it's consumed or the less the dosage, the slower it'll build up.
Also as the reverse tolerance builds up the Harmala/Rue dosage gets stronger and stronger, so what i would do is take the same dosage until it gets too strong, then back the dosage down a little bit and continue on until that dosage got too strong, back the dosage down some more and keep doing that, eventually i only needed a little bit of Harmalas/Rue for a full on dosage, so it saves on plant material in the long run. With Lemon EO or Lemon Balm with the Harmalas/Rue though, it can be a bit difficult to determine how strong the Rue/Harmalas are because the Lemon EO, and Lemon Balm, both clean up how the Rue/Harmalas feel, but for me i can still tell when things get a bit too strong because i can still feel some of the bodyload but it feels much cleaner compared to how it'd feel without the Lemon EO or Lemon Balm.
Just keep in mind this is all experimentation/trial and error, so it can take a few tries and dosage adjustments to really figure things out and get things down right, you learn as you go along, so if you mess up somewhere don't worry just make some adjustments and keep going
Edit - Also keep in mind that the more regularly the Rue/Harmalas is consumed, and the higher the dosage of the Rue/Harmalas, the faster the reverse tolerance will build up, the less it's consumed or the less the dosage, the slower it'll build up.
Sabnock1990
Be Your Own Shaman
^ bullshit. There's nothing wrong with Lemon EO and it's been studied and determined to be safe for ingestion, it's also used as a food additive and as i said is also in Lemon juice which people use all the time. It contains terpenes found in many plants, including Cannabis, so "risk of possible death" is bullshit. And don't give me that whole "essential oils are dangerous to ingest" crap, only some oils are toxic and shouldn't be ingested, Lemon EO is safe for ingestion and i've taken it daily for going on 2 years now, i'm just fine.
Also, Limonene is sold as a dietary supplement and has been included in several dietary supplements. And many people are taking Cannabis terpenes without issue as well, plus like i said, these same terpenes are in many different plants, so if they were unsafe for ingestion people wouldn't be consuming plant teas or Cannabis edibles/oils. In fact i bought some pure Limonene softgels and it was the same dosage that i consume with Lemon EO, except the Lemon EO works much better. I've also consumed Orange EO, Lime EO, Ginger EO, Peppermint EO, Clove EO, and some others, all without issue/risk. I'm tired of all the anti-essential oil crap/propaganda that people believe without much evidence.
Feel free to believe whatever you wanna believe though. I for one have taken my health into my own hands and know what i'm doing, so i don't need governmental agencies like the FDA or some silly aromatherapy organization to tell me "hey, don't ingest EO's", i've consumed a lot worse things in my life than essential oils, i assure you. If you wanna be a wussy about essential oils, be my guest lol, but i know how over-exaggerated and down right false the claims are against ingesting essential oils so i for one will keep doing what i'm doing. I'd harm myself way more by smoking Tobacco or eating a shit diet than by consuming terpenes lol. Which i'm not saying there couldn't be some risk if say you consumed a whole bottle or 2 or 3, but a few drops to 12 drops or so, definitely not.
Also, Limonene is sold as a dietary supplement and has been included in several dietary supplements. And many people are taking Cannabis terpenes without issue as well, plus like i said, these same terpenes are in many different plants, so if they were unsafe for ingestion people wouldn't be consuming plant teas or Cannabis edibles/oils. In fact i bought some pure Limonene softgels and it was the same dosage that i consume with Lemon EO, except the Lemon EO works much better. I've also consumed Orange EO, Lime EO, Ginger EO, Peppermint EO, Clove EO, and some others, all without issue/risk. I'm tired of all the anti-essential oil crap/propaganda that people believe without much evidence.
Feel free to believe whatever you wanna believe though. I for one have taken my health into my own hands and know what i'm doing, so i don't need governmental agencies like the FDA or some silly aromatherapy organization to tell me "hey, don't ingest EO's", i've consumed a lot worse things in my life than essential oils, i assure you. If you wanna be a wussy about essential oils, be my guest lol, but i know how over-exaggerated and down right false the claims are against ingesting essential oils so i for one will keep doing what i'm doing. I'd harm myself way more by smoking Tobacco or eating a shit diet than by consuming terpenes lol. Which i'm not saying there couldn't be some risk if say you consumed a whole bottle or 2 or 3, but a few drops to 12 drops or so, definitely not.
downwardsfromzero
Boundary condition
Sha.Sta, I think null was being ironic: LEO = Law Enforcement Officers 
I do apologize, just couldn't resist.downwardsfromzero said:Sha.Sta, I think null was being ironic: LEO = Law Enforcement Officers
We went through a training at work recently on dealing with difficult behaviors in the community and how to prevent police involvement in the case of all but the most serious events. Calling police (LEO) in the US can be deadly and its sad and terrifying that it's become such an accepted part of society that we are being taught not to call police.
I am sorry this tread has absolutely nothing to do with that, i took what looked like a typo to prop my soap box upon. ACAB.
Sabnock1990
Be Your Own Shaman
Ah, alrighty then lol.
Legarto Rey
Rising Star
Here's the best thread I've found on this ROA. While shunned by many, it can be an effective mode of consort with "light bringer" plants at MODEST doses. My experience has been with powdered MHRB and Chaliponga catalyzed by extracted harmalas(full spectrum, rue) or moclobemide.
What surprised me was that purge was tolerable, to nil AND 1.5-2.0 grams of MHRB was above threshold. Anyhow here's the thread: Recreational anahuasca consuming powdered Syrian Rue, Mimosa Hostilis, Chaliponga and Acacia Confusa - Welcome discussion - Welcome to the DMT-Nexus
Peace
What surprised me was that purge was tolerable, to nil AND 1.5-2.0 grams of MHRB was above threshold. Anyhow here's the thread: Recreational anahuasca consuming powdered Syrian Rue, Mimosa Hostilis, Chaliponga and Acacia Confusa - Welcome discussion - Welcome to the DMT-Nexus
Peace