Challenging Plato

[rjb]

For a long time, I held this Plato's saying close to my heart:

A good decision is based on knowledge and not on numbers.

It has helped me a great deal over the years, but now I feel that it's not completely accurate. Sure, knowledge is important, but it would be more in tune with my experience to state that:

A good decision is based on wisdom and not on numbers.

Now, I don't know if Plato had different concepts of knowledge and wisdom, but today we're viewing those as separate, what with all the information out there. So, what do you think? Does this apply to you? Thoughts?

 

[Ritalin]

It's not like that statement is absolutely true, but something useful to take with a grain of sand. The jedi frown upon using absolutes, the sign of a sith. (feeling nerdy)

Just some high thoughts

Peace

P.S. Plato is cool but man tool is rocking it on my mp3 player

 

[Rising Spirit]

Now, I don't know if Plato had different concepts of knowledge and wisdom, but today we're viewing those as separate, what with all the information out there. So, what do you think? Does this apply to you? Thoughts?

I agree with you. rjb. Wisdom is far more applicable an English word for Platonic thought, than knowledge. Ya know... even when we are speaking in English, as primarily English-speaking peoples, semantics keep us from understanding each other clearly.

Given that Plato spoke ancient Greek, it's impossible for us in the 21st century to know exactly what he truly meant by "knowledge". Did he write the ancient equivalent of Gnosis? This could put an entirely different spin on the intended meaning of the great thinker, Plato.

The word knowledge, itself, is like unto information, data or a specific ideology. Knowledge is more or less, like energy, it can be of many types or forms. Still, when taken philosophically, "knowledge" is often taken to be aligned to universal truths or laws, therefore, it actually is wisdom.

His teacher, Socrates, was said to have uttered these profound words, "I only know that I know nothing." IMO, Socrates implies that no matter how great the accumulated knowledge any humanoid can gather through reason and intuition, it is itself, an infinitesimal speck in the grand, universal scheme of things. Wisdom for sure.

That being said, more recent translations by contemporary Greek linguists, shows that the ancient Greek sage's statement, show another side to what we have long thought he had meant. It goes like this, "My knowledge comes from an unknowing."

This is a horse of a different color. To me, this suggests that when we cease to view the universe we perceive through the lens of our habitual mode of reasoning and cognition, we can suddenly understand a whole other level of existence and a knowledge of things heretofore unknown. By unlearning all of his preconceptions, he was open the eternal gnosis. Very Zen! :thumb_up:

 

[unansweredquestions]

This is just off the top of my head but i believe plato made the assertion that knowledge had a perfect form (think alagory of the cave..and a few telling dialoges) so in that sense, the knowledge of his construct is kind of all encompassing. knowledge was in and of itself, good and beautiful. it had a perfect form.

funny enough wasnt it his mentor, socratese, that said "the only true wisdom is in knowing you know nothing"

Now... when you get to challenging platos stance on knowledge my personal favourite is neitzsche; beyond good and evil is a good start. neitzsche had a real critical stance of platos notion of 'good' (or rather the virtues) argueing that it ignores the human perspective. He asserts nothing can originate from its antithesis (truth in error is his example) similarly, the virtue or understanding and grasping good from an evil, corrupt world of illusion is impossible.

So, how would you differenciate wisdom from knowledge?

or rather, to you, what do both mean?

 

[rjb]

Well, to me, knowledge would be the total sum of information one possesses, while wisdom would be the totality of experience, insight and observations one gathers using his knowledge. Knowledge may be wrong at times, but a wise person uses that wrong information to determine the opposite. Having a lot of knowledge just makes for a lot of information, how you combine and connect all this information in order to benefit your view is wisdom. Might be just a semantics issue, but for me, making this difference consciously leads to a whole other level of understanding.

And yeah, I agree with Socrates. I still find wisdom useful, but I am aware that it's a relative concept and I treat it accordingly. We determine knowledge and wisdom based on what our views allow us, but the thing is, what we call reality or universe or what ever this is, is much much larger than a single person, and obviously cannot be known/understood, but experienced. And even when we come to experiencing, we see how limited we are in our little corner of a distant galaxy. It's silly to claim an absolute view, because there's no such thing. All is an illusion, indeed.