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Chameleon Vine Discovered in Chile
- Thread starter Aegle
- Start date
Memetic polymorphistic mistletoe!
This is a sweet find!
This is a sweet find!
cubeananda
jai
ymer said:
Care to elaborate on this?
I only vaguely know what you mean and would be interested to hear relevant thoughts about it.
Entheogenerator
Homo discens
This is so incredibly fascinating. I'll be intrigued to hear more as researchers try to pin down the mechanism that this plant uses to identify its host plant. Thanks for sharing this! :thumb_up:
ymer
Rising Star
cubeananda said:
Well, they need to explain how random mutations created such a thing. As they usually say using "occam's razor" (which IMO it's a flawed and usually used out of context concept) some thorns or a poison would be a lot more effective at keeping predators away than making such a complex system to mimic other plants shape and form.
cave paintings
Rising Star
ymer said:
I don't see why random mutations couldn't account for it. This mimicry likely wasn't one gene. It was something that was selected for over time as it was successful, and was likely multiple genes mutating and the mimicry mechanism evolved too. They suggest here that it likely was a way to avoid insect predation.. where thorns wouldn't help and many insects are resistant to poisons. So a more elaborate mechanism would be appropriate to protect against herbivory. I don't think calling a mutation random even slightly devalues, or reduces the wonder or profundity of life. Evolutionary theory really pretty clearly speaks in a deep way to the nature of the universe to me... spontaneity, creation, change, infinite possibilities. I don't think it's reductivist to call it random I guess is what I'm saying. Evolutionary biology really allows for endless admittance of possibilities and permutations so long as they survive in the gene pool and are successful.
Perhaps you're missing the point
This happens in real time, not EVO time.
This world is one Strange Happening.
cave paintings
Rising Star
I see what you mean. Yeah I didn't mean to seem so brash or anything either, I think I misinterpreted it the post as a sort of discounting of evolutionary theory altogether or something. But you're right - this isn't evo time in terms of the adaptations. I need to read it all anyway.. would be interesting to see which seeds it puts out depending on which host its attached to. Very cool stuff! Such inteliigence. Such an active and responsive universe we live in!
DreaMTripper
Rising Star
Thats some insane plant skills! That they must somehow be able to determine the structure of another plant in the first place is incredible.
Extremely interesting finding!
Despite extraordinary for our human understanding, this can very well be accounted by the Evolutionary Theory. The vine does not mimic the leaf shape of every plant it climbs, but rather of several of its hosts. The vine learned (evolutionary speaking) to read signals from its most commonly-associated plants and accordingly direct new leaf development to several (possibly pre-encoded?) variants.
Just as all organisms read their environment and respond accordingly, well some respond in (extraordinary for our understanding) ways.
cyb said:
Despite extraordinary for our human understanding, this can very well be accounted by the Evolutionary Theory. The vine does not mimic the leaf shape of every plant it climbs, but rather of several of its hosts. The vine learned (evolutionary speaking) to read signals from its most commonly-associated plants and accordingly direct new leaf development to several (possibly pre-encoded?) variants.
Just as all organisms read their environment and respond accordingly, well some respond in (extraordinary for our understanding) ways.
^
Exactly; in the absence of the whole truth we may have to resort to Models to explain the world but that doesn't mean that there isn't more to that. Whatever that is.
Exactly; in the absence of the whole truth we may have to resort to Models to explain the world but that doesn't mean that there isn't more to that. Whatever that is.
ymer said:
I think you answered your own query: thorns or poison would be more effective and simpler, so the likelihood of another defensive mutation appearing and prevailing would have to be, well, RANDOM.
I fail to see challenge for evolutionary theory. The evolutionary function is even outlined in the article.
(and, for the record, I fully agree with Global Infundibulum:
"Exactly; in the absence of the whole truth we may have to resort to Models to explain the world but that doesn't mean that there isn't more to that. Whatever that is.")
Great find regardless of any surrounding debate.
JBArk
cyb said:
If I understand the article, the evolutionary time is the time it took to selectively adapt the ability. The fact that the effect happens in real time is astounding, but only unique because it is a plant. Many of the 160 species of chameleons can mimic their environment by changing colour, in real time.
Cheers,
JBArk