Changa / MAOI Strength

[Jaffster]

Hi all,

Apologies if this has been answered before but I've had a quick search and couldn't find anything on the subject.

I know that with Ayahuasca you have to have a careful diet both before and after taking the oral MAOI. I take Amitryptaline for chronic migraine and so since my inital experience with it some years ago, I've not been able to try it since.

I know that Changa extends the journey when smoked because it contains a mild MAOI, but just how mild is the MAOI when it's smoked? Would it have an effect on my medication?

Thanks

 

[pitubo]

Apologies if this has been answered before but I've had a quick search and couldn't find anything on the subject.

I've been looking at this before and I too found very little information. I assume that part of the lack of knowledge is due to the circumstance that pharmaceutical maoi's are generally not administered by route of inhalation, so all the research and testing is set up towards oral exposure.

I know that Changa extends the journey when smoked because it contains a mild MAOI, but just how mild is the MAOI when it's smoked? Would it have an effect on my medication?

A few comments:

First, the harmalas in changa not only affect the duration of the experience, they also subtly modulate it, because they not only affect dmt metabolism, but also other parts of brain chemistry.

Second, smoked (or vaporized) harmalas are active at far lower doses than oral harmalas. Whereas oral harmalas normal dose starts at 125 mg, vaporized harmalas are noticeable at 7.5 mg. How this works out in the interaction with other psychoactives and pharmaceuticals I know little about.

Unfortunately, the above comments add little to answering your questions. I did find some reports and discussions about interactions of smoked harmalas and various substances, but none specific to amitryptiline:

positive reports:
modafinil
kratom
kratom

negative reports:
red wine
mdma
mdma

The last link points to comments made by nexus member Corpus Callosum. Since he is a medical doctor, I consider his statements the most authoritative. Maybe you can ask him if he has learned more since he wrote that post in 2011.

While I am not a medical doctor, a cursory reading of wiki's listing of side effects and interactions for amitryptiline leads me to believe that it may not be wise to experiment with the combination with changa.

BTW, regarding your migraines, did you try, or consider trying, using lsd or psilocybin? Many people medicate themselves with those. At least they seem to have a lot less nasty side effects than amitryptiline and a lot more benign interaction with maois.

 

[Jaffster]

BTW, regarding your migraines, did you try, or consider trying, using lsd or psilocybin? Many people medicate themselves with those. At least they seem to have a lot less nasty side effects than amitryptiline and a lot more benign interaction with maois.

Well, that is quite the coincidence, because I'm currently typing this whilst enjoying my first ever LSD trip It's quite the experience.

I read quite a bit about dosing LSD for cluster headaches but not for migraines?

 

[pitubo]

I hope that it helps you. Since I discovered lsd and shrooms, I hardly ever suffered from migraines like I used to before.

One thing did not mention, but that I feel may also be relevant is: chronic tensions in the upper neck and cranial base. Physically, I'm quite flexible, but psychedelics helped me relax more to the core. Before, I used to hold a lot of deep tensions unconsciously. Or perhaps sort of unconsciously; I tried to reach it, but I never could. Physiotherapy and even a new-agey 'sensitive' (what a joke) massage course could not reach it either. But somehow, with the help of psychedelics, I was able to reach into the levels of myself where I was holding on to the tensions.

I don't want to discredit physical therapy such as massages at all. I am deeply convinced that it can, in some areas, be as beneficial and healing as psychedelics can be. It just takes the right sensitivity, which unfortunately is a rarity, even (or sometimes especially) when such claims are made explicitly.

Another physical avenue that I consider potentially fruitful is readjustment of the spine. Probably the same caveats apply as with massages: you need to find a therapist who has the right "touch". If you do, miracles may happen sometimes. Even without a therapist, practices like tai chi and related disciplines may help in realigning the spine and the neck, and thereby relieving pains. If anything, these practices can also help to greatly reduce general life stress and help to find inner balance.

None of the above recommendations is guaranteed to cure migraines, but they may nevertheless be of great benefit in other areas of life and well-being.

 

[Jaffster]

It does help, thanks.

Unfortunately, I've been through all of the recommended medications (Propranolol, Topiramate and Amitryptaline) and only really saw any reduction in my migraines from the latter.

When I saw the specialist, I was given a huge list of common triggers and I have pretty much ruled all of them out. I didn't consider the tension in my upper neck, I assumed that would be a tension headache and not a migraine?