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Cleanest tek for extracting phyllodes?

S

somerandompsychonaut

Esteemed member
Might be a bit of an opinion question but figured it was worth asking still.

I've seen chlorophyll and such make a complete mess out of TLC plates so I'd like to avoid that as much as possible and it's much easier to obtain phyllodes than bark samples (I gather most species have higher concentrations in the bark but I figure if there's solid signal from the phyllodes then that's a good suggestion that it might be worth going after bark)

There's a bunch of Acacia species around where I live that I can't find any analyses of and I have a fairly well equipped lab so I figured I might as well see if I can't add to the body of knowledge :)
 
Phyllodes are the extension of the bark technically what you find in there is in the bark. So it's worth testing. if you have a well equipped lab as in access to LCMS. Then any a/b method will work but I'd suggest maybe more of a dry tek and methanol to get a full spectrum extract incase of polar compounds like bufo.
Otherwise a normal a/b and screen your extracts with ehrlich's would be a good starting point as to whether it's worth further investigation (i.e TLC or LCMS) if looking for tryptamines.
 
*facepalm* of course they are, being that they're modified stems ;)

Should've said "well equipped HOME lab" ;) though I have some friends I might be able to tap for LCMS if needs be.

Cheers, thanks for the tips.
 

Simplified Column Chromatography

..this was influenced by a short article in one of the very first editions of Entheogen Review, in the early 90s...i've slightly adapted it, from experience, into what i'll present below...this is to help those pioneering independent research at the Nexus.. Simplified Column Chromatography...
forum.dmt-nexus.me forum.dmt-nexus.me
 
It has been exceedingly sunny this Perth part of the Earth the last few weeks, and have found that leaving frozen, bagged, phyllodes in the direct sun to thaw (between freeze and thaw cycles) has degraded the chlorophyll content to a significant degree. Maybe this might be of interest, or an avenue of investigation worth going down?
 
speciallearner said:
It has been exceedingly sunny this Perth part of the Earth the last few weeks, and have found that leaving frozen, bagged, phyllodes in the direct sun to thaw (between freeze and thaw cycles) has degraded the chlorophyll content to a significant degree. Maybe this might be of interest, or an avenue of investigation worth going down?
Click to expand...
The phyllodes may not be green any more, but there are likely still fats and oils left over - plus the question of whether the DMT also degrades in sunlight.

Degradation does not mean that the chlorophyll has simply dematerialised - we can only hope the products thereof don't interfere with the extraction any more than the chlorophyll might have done.
 
Transform said:
The phyllodes may not be green any more, but there are likely still fats and oils left over - plus the question of whether the DMT also degrades in sunlight.

Degradation does not mean that the chlorophyll has simply dematerialised - we can only hope the products thereof don't interfere with the extraction any more than the chlorophyll might have done.
Click to expand...
Yeah, good point! I was coming from a Porphyrin cleavage via UV irradiation viewpoint, and hadn't considered the broader implications for degradation of valuable compounds.

Cheers for the catch :)
 
speciallearner said:
Yeah, good point! I was coming from a Porphyrin cleavage via UV viewpoint, and hadn't considered the broader implications for degradation of valuable compounds.

Cheers for the catch :)
Click to expand...
Indeed; my guess is that the porphyrins, being set up to catch sunlight and drive electrons into the transport chain, basically fall apart when there's nothing returning the electrons in the dead material. Quite interesting to think about, in fact!
 
@Grasshoppers posted some methods for analytical-scale liquid-liquid extraction and TLC, targeting Phalaris but probably suitable for your Acacia without much change. They also tried spotting various crude extracts (without separating the alkaloids), with degraded but still reasonably good results. You might also take inspiration from that Belgian doctor's mescaline method.

For LC you can probably just extract the plant material into acidified water, filter, and inject. If you're processing dozens or hundreds of samples, this is much faster. I've posted an HPLC method that separates DMT, 5-MeO-DMT, gramine, tyramine, and more unidentified peaks, with no obvious interferences with fluorescence detection. I assume MS would be at least as selective. Detection by UV absorption does show interferences (at least with my method, maybe with any practical method), so would require a fancier sample prep.

It might be faster to replace the liquid-liquid extraction with SPE. I abandoned that when I got my fluorescence method working, but some initial experiments with C18 cartridges worked as expected. A professional lab would usually pull the eluent through with a vacuum chamber, but you can push it with a cheap adapter and an air-filled syringe.

It's great to see more people prospecting here. No alternative source is as easy as MHRB yet; but reliance on that brings many limitations, especially for those who attach significance to personally growing the plants.
 
_Trip_ said:
What varieties are you planning to test?
Click to expand...
I believe they're myrtifolia and provincialis (somebody was looking at testing the latter owing to its close relationship to retinodes but I didn't see results so I'm not sure if they got there) mostly because I needed to prune them ;) there's also a few other species about that are growing rather prolifically which once I get a solid ID on I might look at testing, I'll wait until closer to the end of summer to harvest the wild types though.
 
aizoaceous said:
@Grasshoppers posted some methods for analytical-scale liquid-liquid extraction and TLC, targeting Phalaris but probably suitable for your Acacia without much change. They also tried spotting various crude extracts (without separating the alkaloids), with degraded but still reasonably good results. You might also take inspiration from that Belgian doctor's mescaline method.

For LC you can probably just extract the plant material into acidified water, filter, and inject. If you're processing dozens or hundreds of samples, this is much faster. I've posted an HPLC method that separates DMT, 5-MeO-DMT, gramine, tyramine, and more unidentified peaks, with no obvious interferences with fluorescence detection. I assume MS would be at least as selective. Detection by UV absorption does show interferences (at least with my method, maybe with any practical method), so would require a fancier sample prep.

It might be faster to replace the liquid-liquid extraction with SPE. I abandoned that when I got my fluorescence method working, but some initial experiments with C18 cartridges worked as expected. A professional lab would usually pull the eluent through with a vacuum chamber, but you can push it with a cheap adapter and an air-filled syringe.

It's great to see more people prospecting here. No alternative source is as easy as MHRB yet; but reliance on that brings many limitations, especially for those who attach significance to personally growing the plants.
Click to expand...
Thanks for the tips, I'll spend some time reading.
 
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