Cold pulls vs Warm pulls: Side by Side Comparison Report

[1ce]

Alright, I did pulls on 2 different extractions. I weighed out 50g of MHRB and divided it evenly after shredding and powdering.

Each was placed in 500ml citric acid solution, and boiled for 24 hours. Each was defatted with 10ml naptha, and boiled down to 350ml. Then 150ml very basic water was added so I had 2 500ml basic solutions, Ph of about 13.

One pull was allowed to be heated to a very soft boil with 25ml naptha added, and held at that temperature for 3 hours with heavy stirring. The other was allowed to cool and 25ml naptha was stirred vigorously at room temperature for 3 hours.

The heated mixture was poured off, 25ml naptha was collected, and allowed to cool. 25ml naptha was also removed from the room temperature mixture.

Oils from the warm mixture started to separate, so it was centrifuged at 5500 rpm for 5 minutes. A large amount of oil was stuck to the tubes, and the solvent was removed.

Both extractions where placed in identicle crystalizing dishes, cleaned with anhydrous acetone, and completely evaporated. Both of these dishes were placed in the freezer for 12 hours.

The heated mixture yielded significantly more freebase DMT than the mixture that was pulled at RT.

I thought this was worth sharing, regards
-1ce

 

[Al-Wasi]

From what I know about this process so.far is that heating may pull more fats and oils then an unheated pull.

Ate you certain the higher yield isn't due to pulling more fats oils or other plant material.the non heated pull.

Also is the color of the DMT different between the two pulls?

And I'm kind of confused as to whether the total base soup was heated as well as the naphtha or did you just heat the napthta ?

I've read in other threads that a test was done, using a different tek however, one using heat and the other just at room temperature and the yield was the same. I'll look for the post I'm referencing, which was done using q21 lime tek.

Reason I ask is in my past extractions I've noticed those done using heat have pulled yellow DMT crystal , one actually had a layer of oily waxy DMT which had to be scraped off the dish after the crystal was removed. My extractions done using room temperature naphtha have generally pulled white spice.

Both were done with different batches of bark so yield cannot be compared in my results.

 

[1ce]

It looked fairly white, there was definitely oil left over, even after a defat step. The naptha and basic solution where heated together, and were being mixed throughout the entire heating process.

I don't believe for second doing heated pulls helps extract from the plant, but rather assists in transfering more alkaloids over to the non polar. I got quite a bit of oil to drop out of the solution from a cooling and cold water wash. I've been in town all day so I haven't gotten to harvest the yield quite yet.

I may find some suprises lurking in the bottom though. I have definitely gotten cleaner results from room temperature pulls, but it takes sooo much more solvent pulling room temp with naptha.

Heating a small amount of naptha and mixing it well, I didn't need to evap as I did with the room temp pull. Within 30 minutes the heated pull had a nice, thick layer of spice already formed at the bottom. The room temp pull did not so I evapped it quite a bit.

 

[1ce]

There's some off colorness to the heated pull. Should be fine though, I'm gunna smoalk some this evening 8)

 

[Randomness]

Lol

On another thread you asked me why I would want to do heated pulls

Good to see you testing the diffrent outcomes and posting the results.

If you get a chance try the same but with just a 5 min heated pull with your magnetic stirrer. I find I can get the naphtha supersaturated in 5 mins or less. First it pulls the spice and then starts taking on the oils and going reddish. The oil I seperated would no longer dissolve in room temp naphtha and was a bit like wax.

IMHO with a bit of oil the spice worked "better" but that to much oil ruined it. I like to go for heated pills for my own spice as I cannot argue with the large yield of potent goods.

 

[1ce]

Haha yeah, 3 hours was a long time but I was pretty tired so it had to work with a nap. I think it was actually endlessness that stepped on the heated pull idea.

Simply saving solvent and not having to evaporate it seems like a good enough reason for me IMHO.

Thanks for your reply :3

 

[Randomness]

I never normally evap my solvent.

Freeze precip and reuse a few times then I tend to mix it in with the fuel for my mower or hedgecutter.

Could clean it up by distilling but that seems like a waste of power (when I can use it as a source of energy instead).

One thing I have noticed is that if you supersaturate your naphtha on a fast pull is that a lot of the spice will crash out as it cools to ambient temp. You can then decant the naphtha off and freeze precipitate the rest.

Like the sound of the centrifuge wish I had one to play around with.

All the best with your experiments.

 

[AcaciaConfusedYah]

There's easier ways to clean NPS than distilling it....

 

[1ce]

There's easier ways to clean NPS than distilling it....

Depends, some solvents are volotile enough I can just vac distill them. I ususlly distill my solvents :3 Works pretty well too, I use 2 erlenmeyers. 1 for defat washes, the other for extractions. I pull the extraction solvent with acid to extract any residual spice out of it. Don't wanna see that go to waste

Centrifuge is nice, I often use it to break emulsions. Settle yeast from fermentations, all kinds of stuff.

I've recycled this can of naptha for ages, if you can distill you can *probably* produce alot of your own (better) solvents. Not to give anyone ideas, that can KILL YOU DEAD if you don't know what you're doing.

One thing that absolutely baffles me is we're not allowed to talk about sourcing watched/dangerous chemicals, but...

Lye is watched, and dangerous.
Naptha is watched, and more dangerous than chloroform in many ways.

Maybe some resesrch into safely preparing a relatively safe solvent might not be a bad idea. I'm afraid of suggesting anything as my assumption is that my argument about lye/naptha was cause for my membership being pulled.

Pros vs Cons:

Chloroform can be made by 2 easy non watched OTC chemicals, it's not as dangerous as people believe, and it's about the best extraction solvent for DMT out there. It can degrade into a poison gas that can be prevented with the addition of a little alcohol. It is non flammable, and a suspected carcinogen with a low boiling point. You would do well to work with it outside or in well ventilated areas.

Diethyl Ether: This is an amazing solvent for many extracts. It is prepared from ethyl alcohol. It is fairly non toxic, but inhaling it is a big issue. Fumes are extremely dense, and will catch fire with no provocation. Ether can form explosive peroxides. This stuff will kill you fast if you handle it wrong.

Ethanol: Can be fermented and distilled to a high purity extremely easilly. Azeotropic ethanol (96%) is quite flammable so there exists a danger there. It's fairly safe to use, make, not really dangerous, and it's hardly suspicious. IIRC it doesn't interact witn plastic either.

There is a global con, and that is one needs distillation gear for all this. An inexperienced person may harm themselves or permanantly destroy property in doing this. ESPECIALLY distilling in your house! I'd like to find something between alcohol and chloroform that can easily prepared in home, has nearly no risk, and extracts efficiently.

Regards, 1ce

 

[thesoi6]

till now i never tried cold pulls with acacia but maybe ill give a try thx for the advice

 

[Randomness]

There's easier ways to clean NPS than distilling it....

Yea there are plenty of ways. It was more for me with naphtha the reward of cleaning it outweighed the effort. Tis cheap as chips and as I can use it as a fuel the environment aspect of not re using is negated. If it were something more exotic I would put the effort in to clean it up and reuse.

 

[1ce]

Distillation can be useful in sourcing exotic solvents from an otc source, or preparing other solvents like relatively pure ethanol for those seeking a more food safe alternative.

 

[8x8state]

" pulled from 100g acrb with gentle stirring....xtals white.
really mashed it up and shook hard 100g acrb.....waxy xtals and oil.
think its a product of the mixing style..which is nice cos i can pull gently and get my vapour grade and after go back and collect the waxy stuff for changa.
all.pulls were cleaned with a mini a/b..cybs tek.
thanks for the info.
good to know for sure.."
he said.

 

[endlessness]

Thanks for sharing

Also can you give an estimate on how much the yield increased?

 

[1ce]

Thanks for sharing

Also can you give an estimate on how much the yield increased?

About 15% on the heated pull. A secondary pull yielded about 20mg of spice. The yield increase may have been attributed to less solvent used, and other alkaloids remaining.

The most noticeable advantage was how quickly I was able to harvest a smoalkable product. It was alot harsher to smoke than a purer extraction, but alot more visual ihmo. This may be due to increased NMT?

I've had ass kickings from both real pure DMT and a larger spectrum DMT. Sofar the most noticable difference is just the pleasure of vaping. Nothing experience-wise.

 

[djsnexus]

Hey 1ce,

Question on the pic you posted. What do you have the spice sitting on top of? Is it a cloth?

Thanks for all the info around here on the forum, really appreciate it.

-djsnexus

 

[DeeMenTalist]

I`ve tried both methods(heated/cold pulls) and now I prefer cold ones(20-30min max for each pull). In my experience cold pulls(using mhrb) outcomes with white stuff and without significant loss of yield. So yes, i won`t do anymore warm/heated pulls.

 

[1ce]

Hey 1ce,

Question on the pic you posted. What do you have the spice sitting on top of? Is it a cloth?

Thanks for all the info around here on the forum, really appreciate it.

-djsnexus

It's a plastic weigh boat for measuring.

This thread here has a good cleanup method: Novel??? Recrystalization Purification Techniques - Advanced/Enhanced chemistry - Welcome to the DMT-Nexus

But colder pulls do indeed pull a cleaner product.

 

[djsnexus]

Hey 1ce,

Question on the pic you posted. What do you have the spice sitting on top of? Is it a cloth?

Thanks for all the info around here on the forum, really appreciate it.

-djsnexus

It's a plastic weigh boat for measuring.

This thread here has a good cleanup method: Novel??? Recrystalization Purification Techniques - Advanced/Enhanced chemistry - Welcome to the DMT-Nexus

But colder pulls do indeed pull a cleaner product.

Haha, oh jeez -____- how did I miss that!

Thanks again 1ce