Comparing DMT to mushrooms

[obliguhl]

Hello folks,
I'm wondering if it's really true that low dose DMT somewhat resembles a mushroom trip.
I've got asthma and allergies and can't continue with my exploration of the DMT realm for propably quite a while. Now I'm thinking of alternatives. The thing is, I'm really eager to explore DMT and it drives me nuts not be able to do it. Now I'm wondering if mushrooms or ayahuasca might be an alternative for me.

I've always feared psychedelics, especially the longer lasting ones like LSD and psylocibin mushrooms. Never taken them. After smoking DMT (in a country where it is legal to posess DMT), this fear vanished quite a bit because the visual experience simply blew me away.

DMT was my first Etheogen and I was propably bordering the very outer realms even though I had some nice open and close eye visuals, it had almost no immedeate psychological impact on me. I think you can paint a picture of my fears regarding the mushroom and aya.

I guess aya would be easier because I already feel good about DMT. But the whole puking thing turns me off...but they say you have to make sacrifices in order to evolve spiritually. Maybe that'S just what I need to do, maybe the hidden dimension left me a call, commands me to follow this new path to overcome my fears.


Maybe I'm talking rubbish and shouldn't be taking any psychedelics at all.

I also fear that I'm gonna be dissapointed by the mushroom or aya experience, after seeing this clear, vivid imagery of geometric forms, strange glyphs. Can I experience these mystic pictures again and at what dose?

Thank you very much for helping me

 

[acolon_5]

If you are looking for DMT like visuals you won't find them on anything less than massive doses of mushrooms, and even then, 'kinda similar' is the best you are gonna get, but with a complete mind f$%K. DMT is the end all of psycadelics. There is nothing more intense...nothing.

Aya might be a little better if you are looking for somethings spiritual. The puking thing isn't so bad, you're glad it happens (at least I am after feeling so sick to my stomach), and afterwords you feel much better.

Each psycadelic is unique, they all have different charecterists.

You can check out the thread about the First Etheogen to Use (or something like that). There is a lot of good info about different psycadelics on there.

 

[obliguhl]

Everytime I'm sick, I try not to puke just because the act of it is totally disgusting for me and feels so horrible. And maybe I should just try to get over it. Maybe it was a bad idea to start with "the end of all psychedelics" and then developing lung problems. :lol:

But I havn't achieved a breakthru but very very pleasant pictures in my head..like fireworks just 100 times more brilliant and fascinating. I know that there's more to psychedelics but "nice visuals"...but that was just to cool.

I've feared that mushrooms are nothing like DMT. Heard lots of bad and lots of good things about them. It seems to be a kinda hit and miss experience for many. Either you like or hate them. For some the "mindfuck" is considered helpful while sometimes beeing hard to manage.

But I also feel drawn to the "reorganisation" spirit of ayahuasca that seems to take place without a concrete psychological, earth shattering , introspective kind of experience. Not that I don't have a doubt that aya can provide an immense experience, it doesn't seem to be so self-centered like LSD for instances. That's at least what I've read.

In that other thread someone mentioned that breathru experience can happen on Ayahuasca, so maybe there's hope for me. I just want to deepen my experience of the outer reals though....and I guess aya can provide that? I mean it's DMT afterall + Harmalin....

Do ß-carbolines blur the visions? I guess I can also use leftover mimosa rootbark for ingestion? Maybe I should try it If I find a nice place to drink and puke.

There would be still time for smoked DMT I I were to recover (what I really hope)

Thansk acolon!!

 

[Big Inhale]

Eat mushies Theyre GRRRRREAT.Very fun mid doses of DMT remind me of high mush doses its almost the same molecular structure if im not mistaken.Just eat an eighth see what happens then work your way up.Also I had extreme collidascopic visuals from LSD before I even heard anything about DMT.So also try 2hits of blotter.The longer lasting psychedelics arent as scary as the shorter blast off ones(DMT,Salvia).Like Acolon said with a high enough dose of mushies or LSD you will have the DMT visuals but rember you shoud be able to swim before you jump in the deepend.

 

[Infinite I]

Ive been taking mushrooms since I was 13 love them, then I took dmt and yes there is nothing more intense, but last mushy season I couldnt beleive how similiar mushrooms were to dmt. The whole closed eyes visuals thing was a bit of a shock, I just couldnt remember getting that on mushrooms before id took dmt, actually maybe once but thats after loads of mushroom journeys. Last mushy season here one of the strongest trips we had was so similiar to dmt, my cousin kept going did I smoke dmt?? did I smoke dmt??, should I smoke dmt?? :lol:

I think aya would give you what your looking for. Ive never had the dmt plants working properly with aya but with rue and mimosa, bad luck with the plants, got some apparantly good chali now though. Ive never been sick on rue and mimosa and my friends have tripped on it more than me and theyve never been sick and had heavy duty closed eyed visuals, isnt that big a deal being sick I dont think, worth it. As for mushrooms, I also think they could give you what your looking for I think the feelings you get on dmt are very similiar as are some of the imagery, thats what I loved about dmt, it was like whall it seems so natural just like mushrooms, unlike acid, anyhoo just aim low with the shrrooms and with aya id start with cappi vine alone for a while, I keep pussyfooting about with the aya at the mo, always aiming low, not like mushrooms, im going to get thousands this year and I usually aim high with them, Im not sure about the mind fuck, always benefits me, the same way as aya and dmt does! Sure youll be pleasently surprised with shrooms, love them me, they can be both spiritual and a whole lot of fun!

 

[Infundibulum]

Bummer... from what you've written, you cannot inhale the spice vapours because of very sensitive lungs. While there's no fast solution SWIM could at least recommend a couple of things that he's also been planning to do in the future and may also help with asthma.

1) Smoke the spice using dried peppermint as carrier herb. SWIM is intending to do so because the high menthol content soothes the harshness of the smoke. Any smoke as a matter of fact. SWIM remembers smoking those peppermint filter cigarettes and they felt like breathing fresh air, could easily inhale half centimetre of cigarette in one go.

And menthol vapours are supposed to help with asthma but do not take my word for that, please do your own research

2) Buy some menthol crystals, they sell them at Maya Ethnobotanicals, they are dead cheap but they are difficult to find through their catalogue. search in this page:

http://www.maya-ethnobotanicals.com/product_listbuy.phtml?type=category&category=keyword_gum_resin_crystal_latex

Then, just "cut" the spice with the menthol crystals. One may try different ratios to find a smoking mix that gives maximum soothing effect and maximum experiences. Plus, it may be a brilliant idea to "cut" the spice with menthol with a view to mask it.

 

[Infinite I]

And menthol vapours are supposed to help with asthma but do not take my word for that, please do your own research

I heard that people who smoke normal cigarettes then stop, after smoking for ten years, their lungs will eventually heal after 5 years or something like that and if you smoked menthol cigarettes and stopped they would never heal, someone told me menthol crystals attatch to the lungs and never go away, again do your research as ronue said as it was just someone who told me that.

 

[polytrip]

I don't like the puking with aya either, but the experience itself is very pleasant. Because the MAOI's make you feel so very relaxed, you don't have to worry much about the psycho-fucked-up effects psychedelics can also cause. In my experience, mushrooms differ in quality a lot. But when you have really strong ones and you take a high dose, they are totally different then when you take a low dose of weak mushies. Totally similar to ayahuasca in many ways, but remember that where a weak mushroom trip can take as little as 4 hours, a strong mushroom trip can take longer then 8 hours.
With pure DMT you have that totally sensory-overload sensation, where the brain starts to drift away on it's own stream of images, more quickly. With LSD you never really reach that total breakthrough to another dimension, but with ayahuasca and mushrooms you can have the exact same total breakthrough. In both cases you have to take an awfull lot of it. With ayahuasca about 2 to 3 times a normal dose and with mushrooms it depends on what's a normal dose for you.
People have no idea how powerfull mushrooms can be when you've reached that threshold but not every type of mushroom has this.

 

[lorax]

use pure psilocybin or a crude extract of psilocybe cyanescens.. those are the bomb!

 

[obliguhl]

Very nice replies, thank you guys!

It's interesting to read how different your reactions are to mushrooms and ayahuasca. It seems to me a rather personal thing and impossible to generalize the effects of mushrooms and ayahuasca, even though there are some common things.

What I enjoyed about the dmt visuals: They weren't purely abstract and kaleidoscopic but were very geometric and sharp. I also had some swirling colors but they were not so interesting. I fear that I'd only get some glowing colors and laser beams and nothing else with mushrooms.

I've read in the recommended thread that bufotenine seems to be an interesting substance ..the problem is: I easily loose respect for a substance if it's described as rather shallow and not deep.

Infinite I ....maybe I should just try to find some mushrooms. Ayahuasca doesn't mix with asthma inhalers (thanks acolon5!) so it might be rather risky to do it while on medication.

@Ronue
Very interesting thing that you can buy menthol crystals, but I havn't found evidence that it makes the smoke less harsh on the lungs..it seems to make it easier to inhale because of the cooling sensation though but I'm not sure wether it irritates the lungs as much as without.

While I can inhale the vapor, it seems to be very harsh on my sensitive lungs. Don't know if I'm gonna risk smoking again, afterall, asthma is a serious condition and I'm not sure if ..say 1 DMT session per month would make it worse. My doctor told me to "not do shit" when it comes to smoking (his words) because he could else jump out of the window if I did ....
But maybe I can stabilize my lungs to try it again somewhere in the future. Maybe I should hunt some shrooms and try bufotenine in the meantime.

Because the MAOI's make you feel so very relaxed, you don't have to worry much about the psycho-fucked-up effects psychedelics can also cause.

Maybe I should try mushrooms + syrian rue then

But I hate the fact that a mushroom trip lasts 4-6 hours. I mean, I can handle an hour of low doese DMT no problem. I was smoking 100-150mg in a row (before my lungs ached) and I didn't want it to stop. But it's another thing to KNOW that you CAN'T stop, and that you have to deal with the cards you were dealt. It was so nice.. 8 minutes and then a good WTF THAT WAS SO COOL feeling.

I also LOVED the fact that DMT totally distracted myself from any thought. The only thing I could do was watch in awe. No time, no energy to spend on "mindfuck".

That sounds like I'm not interested in the psychedelic effects of etheogen substances..that's not true. I just wish I could progress on my path without having to fear loosing my lungs forever. Talk about having to play the cards you were dealt!

polytrip, I think your thougts are in the veins of terence mckenna....5 grams of dried mushrooms in silent darkness. He really describes earth shattering, alienesque glowing experiences and breaking thru to the DMT realm. DMT itself seems to be an easier way though...

But maybe it's fate to learn climbing the hill.

 

[Infinite I]

Id be careful with maois and mushrooms, specially if you dont want a long trip. Im just not interested in tripping for 8-12 hours thats why ill take mushrooms, the maois would make it last longer. Normally mushrooms would last 4-6 hours for me with maois id bet itd easily double that. Ive went right off the idea of maois with mushrooms as I just dont want it too last too long, if youve never had mushrooms im sure youll like them, if your in the UK there out just now!! Oh and heres a report of a guy who took rue and mushrooms, he found out he was god and that wasnt necessarily a good thing! lol http://de1.erowid.org/experiences/exp.phpquery=ID=34864.html

 

[Infundibulum]

MAOI + mushrooms can be pretty intense, say 2x more potent and 10x weirder

SWIM still remembers this 400mg harmala alkaloids + 5g Panaeolus tropicalis, it was severely insane, almost like DMT-like at the very peak. Entities talking to him all the time, I still remember this multi-handed and cat-faced goddess and those insects who were describing me their insectoid wars and how they were loading many enslaved insects in their weird cargoes... pretty fucked but a great experience nonetheless. SWIM's friends also encountered many entities on this trip; too much for me to remember and write them down now

It was the closest SWIM ever got to DMT-like feeling; (mind you, the mindfuck was severe)

 

[lorax]

syrian rue + mushrooms is VERY intense!! only use near pure psilocybin with MAOi! there are very fucked up side effects with this combination. at least make a crude extract when usin mushrooms with MAOi. believe me.. you don't wanna go through that!

 

[69ron]

...But I also feel drawn to the "reorganisation" spirit of ayahuasca that seems to take place without a concrete psychological, earth shattering , introspective kind of experience. Not that I don't have a doubt that aya can provide an immense experience, it doesn't seem to be so self-centered like LSD for instances. That's at least what I've read...

LSD is one of the more psychoanalytical substances, that's for sure. But so is 5-MeO-DMT at low doses. Ayahuasca can be more like LSD if you make it with chaliponga (Diplopterys cabrerana). Most chaliponga that SWIM has used contains a good amount of 5-MeO-DMT as well as DMT. The 5-MeO-DMT adds some LSD-like mental psychedelic attributes to the trip. One of SWIM’s most pleasant introspective and insightful ayahuasca trips was one made with chaliponga and pure harmine.

...In that other thread someone mentioned that breathru experience can happen on Ayahuasca, so maybe there's hope for me. I just want to deepen my experience of the outer reals though....and I guess aya can provide that? I mean it's DMT afterall + Harmalin....

Yes, many years ago SWIM saw GOD on Ayahuasca made with Mimosa hostilis and Peganum harmala, and it changed SWIM forever. That is not an exaggeration. SWIM apparently miscalculated the dosage and took a massive overdose and completely left his body. SWIM really saw GOD and was told many things about the future that were completely impossible for anyone to know, and all of them happened within weeks. SWIM was an atheist before that, and is now no longer an atheist. Even though the trip was extremely intense, at no time was it the least bit scary.

...Do ß-carbolines blur the visions? I guess I can also use leftover mimosa rootbark for ingestion? Maybe I should try it If I find a nice place to drink and puke...

I wouldn’t say they blur them. They definitely have an impact. The visions become far more meaningful and dream-like. Instead of a bunch of colorful multidimensional alien beings, you’ll see things that look more realistic, such as places, people, etc.

You’re more likely to puke from true Ayahuasca made with Banisteriopsis caapi than with Ayahuasca made with Peganum harmala.

If you really don’t want to puke, use pure harmine or harmaline instead of the plant sources. SWIM has done that many times and never even got nauseated (unless he eats chocolate during the peak, in which case he cause nauseated).

..Also I had extreme collidascopic visuals from LSD before I even heard anything about DMT.So also try 2hits of blotter…

SWIM has also had extreme kaleidoscopic visuals from LSD before. He remembers seeing everything changing color, pulsating, blending, twisting, it was amazing. Pure visual bliss. He remembers the good old “candy stripe” blotter LSD always produced fantastic visuals like that.

…With pure DMT you have that totally sensory-overload sensation, where the brain starts to drift away on it's own stream of images, more quickly. With LSD you never really reach that total breakthrough to another dimension, but with ayahuasca and mushrooms you can have the exact same total breakthrough. In both cases you have to take an awfull lot of it. With ayahuasca about 2 to 3 times a normal dose and with mushrooms it depends on what's a normal dose for you.
People have no idea how powerfull mushrooms can be when you've reached that threshold but not every type of mushroom has this.

This also depends on what type of mushroom it is. Psilocybe azurescens are VERY DMT-LIKE and very unlike the more common psilocybe cubensis. As little as 1 mushroom of this variety can almost cause a break through experience in SWIM. SWIM ate 3 that he grew himself and had a complete breakthrough experience. It was almost identical to DMT in every way, just longer lasting.

SWIM never had a breakthrough experience with psilocybe cubensis or psilocybe cyanescens. SWIM once accidentally took an overdose of psilocybe cubensis. He heard that heat destroys the actives and because he had nearly 2,000 mushrooms he had just grown outside on some straw, he decided to waste some by making mushroom broth out of 25 very large mushrooms. He chopped them up and boiled them for about 1 hour with some salt and garlic, and then he strained out the solids. He tasted the broth. It was actually pretty good tasting. Figuring all the psilocybin was destroyed by the lack of any blue color left after boiling the mushrooms for 1 hour, he drank down the mushroom broth thinking nothing of it. Boy was he surprised, within 5 minutes he was tripping harder than he’d ever tripped before. He thought he was going to die. The trip was heart poundingly scary as hell. SWIM had lots of intense “spiritual experiences” from it which cannot be explained using words, but there was no breakthrough and it wasn’t like DMT to SWIM. SWIM got cold, very pale, and sweaty and could not concentrate or remember anything for more than a few seconds in time. SWIM felt as if he was experiencing each moment in time and that nothing else existed. The whole time he was frightened with a sense of pending doom, until the peak hit and he realized he wasn’t going to die. After that the feeling of pending doom ended and then the trip was VERY NICE, full of lots of euphoria, lots of colorful visions, etc.

The entire trip only lasted about 6 hours.

The following day SWIM noticed he had some internal bleeding. Several spots on his arm were purple, as if bruised. This was caused by too much psilocybin (which is known to interfere with normal blood clotting at very large doses).

SWIM later did many tests and found that boiling doesn’t destroy psilocybin much at all. Based on that, SWIM estimates the dose of psilocybin in his broth was about 400-500 mg.

Lessons learned from that overdose:

1) Don’t believe what you hear. Psilocybin is not very heat sensitive and boiling it for an hour hardly degrades it at all.

2) Although the LD50 for psilocybin is very high, higher than most other drugs in use, it can be a little toxic at high doses by causing internal bleeding. Like aspirin, psilocybin interferes with normal blood clotting at high doses so dosages in excess of 100 mg should probably be avoided.

 

[polytrip]

A very strong mushroom trip, especially when enhanced with MAOI's can really last longer then 8 hours. So that's something you have too reckon with. I, like 69ron have had also very good experiences with the azurescens type. Once the room i was in started too look like it was made of spiralling fibers, the room changed in a vibrating, breathing knot of 'spaghetti'. When i took a walk later on, there where giant insects everywhere, it looked a bit like that insect scene from 'indiana jones and the temple of doom'.
So expect something spectacular that will definatly not be over within 6 hours.
There are at least four different DMT- derivates present in our beloved mushrooms and with each type of shroom the mixture is different, so each type of shroom has it's own characteristic feel. Some are really trippy and others are mildly stimulating and yet others make you feel a little mellow.
I heard of people smoking them, but this is something i never did.
In my experience, mushrooms have less side effects when they're dried and side effects do not nescecarilly correlate with potency.

 

[69ron]

SWIM says the following:

All of the mushrooms have slightly different effects. I've grown thousands of Psilocybe azurescens, Psilocybe cubennsis, and Psilocybe cyanescense in the past when I lived up north.

For me, Psilocybe cubensis was the most stimulating, and the most like LSD. It really got my mind racing like crazy. It was very energizing to me and quite euphoric.

Psilocybe cyanescense was my personal favorite. It was more relaxed than Psilocybe cubensis and extremely euphoric. It really made me feel fantastic. It was also more visual than Psilocybe cubensis.

Psilocybe azurescens was by far the most visual, most emotional, and least euphoric of the three. It’s the closest thing to DMT I’ve ever experienced. For me the visuals of Psilocybe azurescens were very DMT like, but still not as strong as DMT and they seemed more curvy or organic. The only thing I didn’t like was that the melatonin effect it had was too strong, stronger than DMT. I would yawn many times during the trip. With DMT that melatonin effect hits me right after the peak and lingers and I always need a cup of strong coffee to shake it off. But with Psilocybe azurescens, that melatonin effect seemed to last through the entire trip.

None of the mushrooms ever made me nauseated or gave me any side effects (except for my one extreme accidental mushroom overdose). I used them hundreds of times for many years. They are quite safe.

I find that Psilocybe azurescens is more like DMT than ayahuasca is. Ayahuasca is for me, far more intense than DMT or mushrooms. It’s a more complete experience. The harmine in aya really completes the experience, brining you much deeper into the experience than is possible with DMT or mushrooms alone. It adds a dreamy component and contributes a lot to the content of the visions making them far more meaningful and easy to understand. At the same time, it stabilized the DMT experience making the trip more useful spiritually. It’s a very immersive experience. For me it’s very easy to have a full breakthrough experience with aya than with anything else.

Only aya was able to show me God, nothing else could do that for me. Psilocybe azurescens and DMT could only get me as far as the gate keepers and no further no matter how strong the dose so the illusion was always there. With aya the illusion was broken and I saw God.