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Consuming DMT citrate hydrate (HIELO tek) orally

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Rising Star
Does anyone know if it would be effective to consume DMT citrate hydrate orally as part of a pharmahuasca experience (in combination with an MAOI)?

DMT citrate hydrate is the end-product from HIELO tek, it has a honey like consistency. The HIELO tek page discusses using citrate hydrate for vaping in an e-juice, it doesn't mention oral consumption explicitly.

I would typically use DMT freebase for pharmahuasca, but DMT citrate hydrate is what I have available to me.
 
Yep, DMT Citrate is orally active with MAOIs.
Dosage would probably need to be adjusted, by around 2x if my math is correct.
Does anyone know if it would be effective to consume DMT citrate hydrate orally as part of a pharmahuasca experience (in combination with an MAOI)?

DMT citrate hydrate is the end-product from HIELO tek, it has a honey like consistency. The HIELO tek page discusses using citrate hydrate for vaping in an e-juice, it doesn't mention oral consumption explicitly.

I would typically use DMT freebase for pharmahuasca, but DMT citrate hydrate is what I have available to me.
If you want more dosing accuracy, it's straightforward enough to convert the citrate to freebase and weigh out the doses that way. The uncertainty of hydration levels in the citrate honey can make dosing a bit haphazard, although at least this tends to a risk of under-dosing - prolonged periods of extremely low humidity notwithstanding.

Another resource to check out is @orchidist's salt calculator:
 
Yep, DMT Citrate is orally active with MAOIs.
Dosage would probably need to be adjusted, by around 2x if my math is correct.
Thanks for your reply.

I just did bit more research online and found some info suggesting that the amount of DMT in the citrate hydrate form would vary a little according to how many water molecules were in the hydrate:
  • With one water molecule: 472.6 mg DMT per gram of salt
  • With two water molecules: 452.1 mg DMT per gram of salt
  • With three water molecules: 433.4 mg DMT per gram of salt
This information was supplied by an AI chatbot, so I'm cautious about it, but it would align with your comment above about doubling the dosage when using DMT citrate hydrate vs. DMT freebase.

In terms of consuming it - I could scoop the citrate hydrate form into a capsule and consume it that way, though I generally try and avoid capsules because their breakdown can vary and make it harder to predict timings etc.

I'm unclear if the citrate hydrate could instead be mixed/blended effectively into a liquid of some sort and then drunk, so I might have to experiment with this. If anyone has an experience with this I'd love to hear from them.
 
Another resource to check out is @orchidist's salt calculator:
Thanks. The salt calculator you shared is interesting.

For DMT citrate it suggests that it contains 49% freebase n,n-DMT. But the calculator doesn't list a citrate hydrate option and my chemistry knowledge is lacking unfortunately so I don't have a good concept of if/how the yield might vary for the citrate hydrate form.

I'll proceed with caution on the assumption that citrate hydrate form is around 50% DMT by weight.
 
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I haven't done this myself but should work. Make a paste with sodium carbonate and dry completely. When dry completely you then add 99% isopropanol and pull the freebase. then evaporate it completely and you should be left with freebase dmt. I'm unsure if it'll be a goo or not but will be freebase and near zero contamination of sodium carbonate.
Edit: You can also do this with ethyl acetate if you don't have 99% iso.
 
I haven't done this myself but should work. Make a paste with sodium carbonate and dry completely. When dry completely you then add 99% isopropanol and pull the freebase. then evaporate it completely and you should be left with freebase dmt. I'm unsure if it'll be a goo or not but will be freebase and near zero contamination of sodium carbonate.
Edit: You can also do this with ethyl acetate if you don't have 99% iso.
Thanks for this. I was hoping to avoid using hydrocarbons like naphtha in my process so I'll give your suggestion a try.
 
Thanks. The salt calculator you shared is interesting.

For DMT citrate it suggests that it contains 49% freebase n,n-DMT. But the calculator doesn't list a citrate hydrate option and my chemistry knowledge is lacking unfortunately so I don't have a good concept of if/how the yield might vary for the citrate hydrate form.

I'll proceed with caution on the assumption that citrate hydrate form is around 50% DMT by weight.
Calculating the mass ratio of DMT in any given salt, hydrated or otherwise, involves some pretty straightforward arithmetic and a basic grasp of molecular mass calculation. Any understanding of chemistry, while obviously desirable, is also somewhat incidental in this particular context.

For the purposes of illustration, I'll check the algorithmically-derived answers which you quoted, which at a glance appear to be well within the expected ballpark range.

First, we set out the molar (gram-molecular) mass of the 1:1 DMT citrate:
C₁₂H₁₆N₂=188.274 g·mol⁻¹
C₆H₈O₇=192.123 g·mol⁻¹
Combining in a 1:1 ratio gives the molar mass of the 1:1 citrate as the sum of these two values, =380.397 g·mol⁻¹
Dividing the molar mass of DMT by this resulting value gives the fraction of DMT in the compound:
188.274 ÷ 380.397 = 0.495, i.e. 49.5% or 494.941 mg/g

So far so good!
Adding a molecule of water adds mw~18 to the larger figure each time, increasing the divisor and thus decreasing the proportion of DMT accordingly:
380.397 + 18.015 = 398.412 for the monohydrate;
188.274 ÷ 398.412 = 0.472561 or
472.561 mg/g of DMT - looking good!

Hopefully you now get how the divisor is incremented for each additional molecule of water of hydration, and can check the remaining machine-provided figures should you so desire.
 
About 40 mg harmala sublingual then after t0040 about 30 mg of D salt sublingual gets you to level 2 at t0130 or so. It is an acquired bitter taste. A pleasant but very weak experience. If you want to go deeper then it's either much higher dosing (plus side effects) or other routes.
 
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