Coping with Scary/Intense Trips

[Daytripper63]

As I gain more experience I was wondering if people have skills they use during and after really intense maybe even scary experiences. Skills they may use themselves of with others that may be with. Seems like a good thing to think about in advance. In the past I have had bad LUCY trips and helps others to stay present during theirs. But the molecule is a little different.

Love to hear any experiences.

 

[endlessness]

Yeah it's def something to consider when exploring these other realm, there are skills to develop and strategies to be tried when dealing with scary experiences.

This nexus wiki entry and the integration-dedicated part below it go over some ideas. Can you relate to those, and have you ever tried any other strategies that worked for you?

 

[Tomtegubbe]

I think it's important to be mentally in good strength before tripping. If you're feeling exhausted or very restless beforehand the experience can be too much.

I use music that resonates my current mood to calm my mind, take a walk outside without electronics and go through my intentions so that I know I'm sincere and not a bad mannered guest when I enter the magical world.

I have taken time to reflect the meaning of experiences that have been scary. I think I now understand better the purpose of certain visions and am able to align my mind with them.

Also, I always take harmalas to soften the experience.

What is it that you find scary in the experience?

 

[Jees]

Hi Daytripper63,

You'll find next thread interesting:
Annoying entities in pre-breakthrough realm
Especially Global's post #17

 

[Poemander]

I read a book years and years ago that addresses fear and how to overcome fear by sitting with it, rather than avoidvance. The book is call "The places that scare you" by Pema Chodren. The book is based on a quote from a tibetan yogi by the name of Machik Labdron, who wrote the following:

Confess your hidden faults.
Approach that which you find repulsive.
Help those you think you cannot help.
Anything you are attached to, let it go.
Go to the places that scare you.

These moments when we are convinced that we cannot take it anymore because the fear has become so great we feel we may burst into insanity or want to fight or perhaps run away. What if you can just sit with those fears without changing it? What happens then?

The book is well worth the read if you are coping rather than thriving. I wish you well!

 

[grimlid]

In the past I have had bad LUCY trips and helps others to stay present during theirs. But the molecule is a little different.

At least this molecule has a shorter time window if things go awry. Ive had high lucy doses in my younger years and really had to play the waiting game.

 

[Sinbad]

Let me start off by saying that this is a fantastic thing to have a discussion on, and I feel it my moral duty to confer my own way of dealing with bad/mad trips.

I won't list off my whole experience history, but I've taken most psychedelics numerous times, and DMT 3x now; at the time of this writing. The 3 times I took DMT were all orally, so it lasted 4+ hours.

You've done some others, so I won't waste time talking about a positive mindset, and you're right, that doesn't really apply to DMT.

The past 2 times, I've spoken with the Gate guardian (I'm assuming to be the Aya brew), and she's always given me guidance before the DMT universe hits real hard (the MHRB brew):

1. There are plenty of tricksters out there, so you need allies

2. Open your eyes to disrupt the nonsense if things get too rough; just long enough to break the spell

3. The gate is always open, and that works both ways...

So my ultimate advice when entering the DMT verse is to find your allies. Sometimes it's an errant thought, sometimes it's the questions you pose to the entities you meet, but every single time I've tripped on The Molecule, it has gone south at some point. That's where your allies come into play.

I can't describe the feeling of being overwhelmed and dominated by something, and then seeing my spirit friends pop out of nowhere, uncalled, and deflating the beast into something small and insignificant. My good friends that I would journey with through everything.

I've also noticed that examining things too intensely in Hyperspace will inevitably lead to a bad time. The little machine elves always appear, doing their work of creating the place, and they're just a bunch of rapscallions is what they are. Not evil, but they are very mischievous. Little tricksters that like it when things fall apart

I use music that resonates my current mood to calm my mind, take a walk outside without electronics and go through my intentions so that I know I'm sincere and not a bad mannered guest when I enter the magical world.

Tomtegubbe does have a point. The last trip I took, I met the King of Snakes, and I'll tell you that I think he's the most powerful entity I've met thus far. He didn't want anything from me or give anything to me. He just laid down the rules.

The King of Snakes had 13 cards, and the only time he had to play one was when one of my errant thoughts I had was of mocking my guide. It was defiling the sanctity of the DMT verse is what it was.

That card alerted every single entity in the DMT space that I was sacrilegious; I had no respect, and laughed at them. Needless to say I got on my knees and spent a good minute convincing them that I was not meaning that, it was just a stray though that became reality, but that was wildly terrifying.

Be respectful, and find some good friends (spiritually). My two closest spirit allies will see me through anything, and my true Guide would pull me out before I fell hand to Demons that would cloud the third eye. Why would infinity exist if you only experienced Hell after all? It must stretch through everything.

 

[Jees]

Hi Sinbad,

...I won't waste time talking about a positive mindset, and you're right, that doesn't really apply to DMT....

It's hard to make generalizations in that regard. I think to know where you're coming from, then on the other hand our father of deems Nicholas Sand considered it very important if not determinative. There's a contradiction and personally I can feel for both approaches. Mindset/setting: perhaps in one trip it really did not play any role while in another trip it becomes fatally important and it's hard to figure that out what comes before the travel begins.

Imho oral or vaped or rectal have an own kind of characteristic experience outside what is common, for example with rectal ROA I've never had a fearing wall encountered as might happen with vaped.

 

[Curated_Thinking]

As I gain more experience I was wondering if people have skills they use during and after really intense maybe even scary experiences. Skills they may use themselves of with others that may be with. Seems like a good thing to think about in advance. In the past I have had bad LUCY trips and helps others to stay present during theirs. But the molecule is a little different.

Love to hear any experiences.

When bad thoughts or feelings creep in I have to remind myself that bad thoughts compound bad thoughts. Trying not to think about something in turn makes me think about it. I had to treat it like not openning a door to a stranger. I think it's a form of either conscious or subconscious self sabotage. If I can address where a thought or feeling is coming from I can move away from it quick.

 

[Tomtegubbe]

I won't list off my whole experience history, but I've taken most psychedelics numerous times, and DMT 3x now; at the time of this writing. The 3 times I took DMT were all orally, so it lasted 4+ hours.

I think you have, Sinbad, gotten very far by those three experiences. The mischievous figures have bothered me a lot, but I similarly think that they are not evil, just craving for attention. I think they have assisted me in purifying my intentions and not to enter their world unprepared and act as a fool myself. The more sincere and respectful I am, the more peaceful my experiences have become. I have come to think of those entities as parts my personality, the Jungian shadow aspect that is possible to accept and integrate.

The most powerful ally you can have in my opinion is God. If you have sincere motivation to get closer to God, the more open and peaceful mind you will have when the magical world unfolds. What God is, is something everyone has to figure out by experience and trust. Dogmas won't get very far.

 

[Sinbad]

Hi Sinbad,

...I won't waste time talking about a positive mindset, and you're right, that doesn't really apply to DMT....

It's hard to make generalizations in that regard. I think to know where you're coming from, then on the other hand our father of deems Nicholas Sand considered it very important if not determinative. There's a contradiction and personally I can feel for both approaches. Mindset/setting: perhaps in one trip it really did not play any role while in another trip it becomes fatally important and it's hard to figure that out what comes before the travel begins.

Imho oral or vaped or rectal have an own kind of characteristic experience outside what is common, for example with rectal ROA I've never had a fearing wall encountered as might happen with vaped.

You're correct I believe. I admit that I oversimplified things with regards to mindset. I was dismissive with Set/Setting for him/her because I thought them understanding of such matters having prior experience.

My point before being that I don't think that just having a positive mindset necessarily brings on a good trip. DMT shows you what you what you need to see at the time based on intention. One of my good friends (having never done it), aptly described the situation as, "Being positive allows the capacity for it to be so, but if you're down, you're going down.".

Tomtegubbe, THANK YOU MORE THAN MOST! I like to share my experiences and help others, but I truly appreciate feedback referring to Hyperspace. I'm hoping you respond before next time I go there, but have you ever allied before with the elves? I NEED to know. They always seem to upset things for me. And not just me, they sometimes leave worlds underdeveloped when I show up to humiliate the entities (that's my POV). You seem to have more experience with them than me. Should I leave them be? Or is there anything there? They seem like background nonsense; even though sentient. I vehemently apologize if this derails the thread, but I truly seek your knowledge

 

[Seeingisbelieving]

I have found out (sometimes in a rough in your face way) that thoughts you put aside in your mind seconds, minutes, hours ,days and years usually pop back up to "haunt" you LOL :twisted: People forget that these molecules are tools used for DEEP introspection. DMT can be fun sure sure but IMHO they shouldn't be used for an exclusively fun ride. Some people act like these substance are supposed to be all rainbows, elves and sunshine fairies but I haven't found that to be the case at all. I think the dmt state has more to do with brain states and areas of the brain that are activating synchronistically that are causing us to have these experiences. It's like we're shown the different filters our brain imposes on our experiences, memories , and most importantly our emotions. I think it's interesting to observe how our normal brain function is restored after smoking a dose of dmt. Through introspection I can watch the filters being reimposed until finally even my thought processes are brought back into focus and performing the usual habits and thinking thoughts that I normally attribute as my self. This allows me to acknowledge deep emotional issues that I haven't been confronting and maybe didn't even know that I should be confronting.

 

[Tomtegubbe]

Tomtegubbe, THANK YOU MORE THAN MOST! I like to share my experiences and help others, but I truly appreciate feedback referring to Hyperspace. I'm hoping you respond before next time I go there, but have you ever allied before with the elves? I NEED to know. They always seem to upset things for me. And not just me, they sometimes leave worlds underdeveloped when I show up to humiliate the entities (that's my POV). You seem to have more experience with them than me. Should I leave them be? Or is there anything there? They seem like background nonsense; even though sentient. I vehemently apologize if this derails the thread, but I truly seek your knowledge

Thank you and thank you for sharing your experience. I think the elves, jesters and succubi (possibly others) are distractions, like the brilliant colors and geometric shapes. They do have a purpose though. DMT is a teacher, and you need obstacles to learn. Inexperienced adventurers are foolish by nature and the elves/jesters can teach you about your foolishness. I have got several useful lessons, which of course weren't nice to have, but I have taken the time to examine them and I see now what was wrong with my attitude.

I understood very early on that if you want to get the spiritual journey, you need to go through the distractions, not by force, but right amount of both determination and trust. I have never allied with any of the entities I have encountered. I'm sure an elf would like to take you to a place which would make you wonder and make him amused, but there's little point in doing that.

I'd say it's best not to pay attention to them. If you are not prepared to go further, they will stop you, in which case it's best to take some time and reflect what you need. It's good to be respectful to everyone. After all, regardless of their metaphysical nature, they exist in you.

I experienced powerful presence of Goddess on my first oral dmt trip. I try remind myself of the positive encounters I have had before taking the dose and desire the good. Often you have to go through a world that is chaotic and distracting before you get to the more meaningful encounters, but it's there to teach you right attitude and prepare you, so that you are worthy when you enter the more significant worlds.

I think vigilance is a virtue, but not stubborness. Right amount of determination and surrendering will get the farthest. Then you may come to a point where you can't progress before you mature and get things fixed in your ordinary life.

I hope this helps! My experiences have changed and progressed quite rapidly in a course of couple of months. Many spiritual stories and myths offer clues to how that world operates. One of my favorite is the story of Aladdin and the magic lamp. Only one with pure of heart can enter and even he has to avoid the distraction of the gold glimmering on the path and proceed with confidence but not arrogance.

 

[Sinbad]

Derailing thread in progress...

Thank you for responding Tomtegubbe!

I really like that you've also taken Aya orally, and that you're not dismissive of the things I've said/seen, and I'm also not of yours. Isn't it just so wild that there's so much in common between all the trips?

That being said, for some reason, unknown to me to this date, I kicked the ever living heck out of the door into Hyperspace the first time. As the gates opened, my mind was severed in half. Literally nothing was good to listen to, drink, or do in any way shape or form. Complete silence, me, and The Spirit Molecule. I've given the highlights in here: Jurema Wine Experience

The next 2 times, I was ready for Madness. Ready for the dissociation from the present and time. I waded through the swamp of my memories with regret, and learned that reflection is greater than that emotion. But it was a DMT trip, so I lost ~90% of all the discussions

All that being said, I've never allowed an entity to "stop" my travels. I'm genuinely curious about this. My allies wouldn't allow it because we're figuring out this outlandish tale together.

There was a time mid-peak that I rolled over in my comfy bed, and I remember I ended up in a strange cavern beneath the earth. This Diglett-looking dude showed me all these gems he found scattered about the ruins. There were sooooo many pretty colors that split apart and coalesced. He was getting me to focus on them. Distracted, and the elves slowly appearing, I hardly noticed him growing so large behind me.

The dragon I befriended before did though. He saw him growing big and tall, so he did likewise. As the dragon grew, that weak thought given Reality behind me shrunk into a pile of mud, but the dragon never stopped: He morphed into the next phase taking everything over for us, and making a clean space to spring out from.

That's why I love my allies, but I find that curious that you don't have any. Maybe I'm forced into many unfortunate circumstances. It sounds like we have completely different yet similar experiences

 

[Tomtegubbe]

Sinbad, have you read this article by Nick Sand? Just a Wee Bit More About DMT, by Nick Sand - Psychedelic Frontier

I think there's excellent advice on that article on clarifying your intention and how to go deeper.

"So I had to let DMT seduce me along the path of the vision quest, through beauty and mystery, until my rigid psychological structures and boundaries had relaxed enough and I had gathered enough courage to look beyond the veils of these incredible designs."

 

[Jees]

... thoughts you put aside in your mind seconds, minutes, hours ,days and years usually pop back up to "haunt" you LOL :twisted: People forget that these molecules are tools used for DEEP introspection...

It's like we're shown the different filters our brain imposes on our experiences, memories , and most importantly our emotions....

This allows me to acknowledge deep emotional issues that I haven't been confronting and maybe didn't even know that I should be confronting.

You have been posting some good value imho Seeingisbelieving (not restricted to this thread)

An overly clear example of what you say I had on a few of experiences during the come-up of pharmahuasca: the recalling of my regular night dreams, but shockingly it were dreams I had a long time ago and were fully wiped out of daily memory. O-yes that dream, and oohh yes that too..
I concluded that non of our experiences are wiped out, ever, but "stored" somehow, and the molecules could open a link. It were rare occasions but they illustrated the tool-potential.

In this context I could place a part of ahum 'shamanic powers' to dig into solution data for a particular case. I forgive the woo if it is able to be successful in the end, but I'm afraid the consultation of the data is not straightforward and prone to be corrupt, as are the trips.
Maybe it needs ultimate talent/experience to cut away distractions on demand and come to access the core data center. Too bad this potential easily gets buried under shamanic-show in the scene.
I think it is not important in which suit the data comes in, in whatever entity-tale it uses, aka do not look at the finger but at the place the finger is pointing. A defiant task between the spectacle brainfarts.

... DMT can be fun sure sure but IMHO they shouldn't be used for an exclusively fun ride...

Good you said 'exclusively'
In a traditionist aya group I said afterwards "I also liked the tripping b*lls" and got a "oh no that is not why we do this" response. I knew they pointed to healing but overshoot imho a notch too far as if pleasure was guilty and counterproductive.
This touches the subject of avoiding distractions to reach a goal, I get that. But on the other hand being-serious-about-aya can in its very self become a distraction, as I have noticed with few traditionalists. You will know them by their fruits

 

[Sinbad]

Sinbad, have you read this article by Nick Sand? Just a Wee Bit More About DMT, by Nick Sand - Psychedelic Frontier

I've just read half of it, and I really appreciate you sending me this link. I'll type up a reply tomorrow. Sorry for the late reply. I'm working a job right now

 

[RMQualtrough]

I honestly don't know if you can. I've had a lot of bad experiences but twice I had legitimate full scale panic attacks. I was almost yelling for help. The times when this happens are when it convinces me fully that I have committed suicide or whatever, and of course I believe it in the moment. Like Salvia you can forget you are on drugs or lose rationality.

So I think you are better to take measures beforehand or while going into the experience...

Setting seems even more important than mindset, I don't understand why and might be wrong but I'm never using in my bedroom again.

One hit style use is Russian Roulette. I started instead using smaller hits first to feel trippy and then I can feel or tell the direction it wants to take me gradually and hit more and more. If it's going to be bad it usually feels weird or frightening even on very threshold doses and I just abort.

Be PHYSICALLY healthy. When my body's really beat up I've had a number of experiences where I felt I couldn't breathe properly. When in a better state of health the body load is not so overwhelming or suffocating. If you do cardio a few times a week and stay fit it seems to help. I wouldn't use if I'm feeling poorly or breathless for any reason.

I'm also quite sure having trusted friends you're V comfortable with nearby helps but I've used solo all but once.

 

[○]

As I gain more experience I was wondering if people have skills they use during and after really intense maybe even scary experiences. Skills they may use themselves of with others that may be with. Seems like a good thing to think about in advance. In the past I have had bad LUCY trips and helps others to stay present during theirs. But the molecule is a little different.

Love to hear any experiences.

Learn not to fight the comeup/peak if that's an issue [something I feel that can def be learned over time and with a solid intent], which leads into making sure you're truly comfortable in where you're doing it/the immediate space you're in - making sure this base is covered to the point that you can relax fully - nowhere to be, no constraints, no worry about someone interrupting you suddenly, somewhere you can just kick back and chill out, etc. Being really comfortable in the immediate space you're in prior to doing it is huge imo/e.

The space you're doing it in and any sort've personal ritual you might have leading up to taking the first hit - these couple things have seemed to matter quite a bit for me personally over the years.

It's not that these things change any sort of the contents or intensity of any of the experiences for me, but these things moreso have helped me drastically in how well I'm able to cope with and deal with the experience as it's coming over me & happening throughout.

Take care

 

[Sinbad]

Sinbad, have you read this article by Nick Sand? http://psychedelicfronti...bit-more-dmt-nick-sand/

I think there's excellent advice on that article on clarifying your intention and how to go deeper.

"So I had to let DMT seduce me along the path of the vision quest, through beauty and mystery, until my rigid psychological structures and boundaries had relaxed enough and I had gathered enough courage to look beyond the veils of these incredible designs."

I promise you I'm working on an adequate reply. The fact that I haven't just responded immediately with something to satiate as a reply means that I'm genuinely thinking about it as something worthwhile to think about.

Maybe I'm thinking about this too hard, but I have 2 small rough drafts about what I was planning to say