• Members of the previous forum can retrieve their temporary password here, (login and check your PM).

death.

Migrated topic.
E

entheogenic-gnosis

Rising Star
What are your views on death?

Knowing that the only thing we know for sure will happen in this life is death, you figure more thought would go into this...

I don't believe we will be able to understand the question "what is life?" Until we can better understand the question "what is death?"

What is life? What is death?

I'm always curious to hear others thoughts on the matter...

-eg
 
I don't believe we will be able to understand the question "what is life?" Until we can better understand the question "what is death?"
Click to expand...
This is true. What you think about death definitely influences how you live your life, so it's definitely something that's important to think about.

I think that ultimately, what you think death is doesn't really matter. Whether you think it's the end of everything or not is moot because when you die, you die. It's not like anyone's come back from the dead to tell us what it's like on the other side. No one remembers what it was like before they were born(there's stories of kids remembering their past lives, take that however you want) and nobody has come back from the dead, like I said. So when you die, it really is the end, at least in a certain sense.

That all being said, though, I personally feel that death is not the end, but just a transition into another existence, whatever that might be. I feel this way because of NDE's, OBE's and the ego death experiences that can happen with psychedelics. All of these phenomena make me seriously consider the possibility of such a thing as life after death. Now, I've never experienced any of these phenomena myself, I only have reports to go on, but I think there's enough there to get me on board. Plus, I believe in reincarnation and the primacy of consciousness over physical matter, so it's not difficult for me to see death as just a transition, not an end.
 
JustAnotherHuman said:
I don't believe we will be able to understand the question "what is life?" Until we can better understand the question "what is death?"
Click to expand...
This is true. What you think about death definitely influences how you live your life, so it's definitely something that's important to think about.

I think that ultimately, what you think death is doesn't really matter. Whether you think it's the end of everything or not is moot because when you die, you die. It's not like anyone's come back from the dead to tell us what it's like on the other side. No one remembers what it was like before they were born(there's stories of kids remembering their past lives, take that however you want) and nobody has come back from the dead, like I said. So when you die, it really is the end, at least in a certain sense.

That all being said, though, I personally feel that death is not the end, but just a transition into another existence, whatever that might be. I feel this way because of NDE's, OBE's and the ego death experiences that can happen with psychedelics. All of these phenomena make me seriously consider the possibility of such a thing as life after death. Now, I've never experienced any of these phenomena myself, I only have reports to go on, but I think there's enough there to get me on board. Plus, I believe in reincarnation and the primacy of consciousness over physical matter, so it's not difficult for me to see death as just a transition, not an end.
Click to expand...

It's always going to be a matter of speculation, and in this case I'm not necessarily looking for scientifically verifiable theories or even anybody's serious beliefs, just ideas...

It seems odd to me how people just accept this situation of life as if it's not an incredibly bizarre situation to be caught up in...I mean what is going on here?

...then to think that this situation is temporary.

It all just strikes me as incredibly odd, how anybody here (in life) can be confident enough to make definant conclusions about this situation is beyond me...

The excerpt below, even though from a television program, makes a good point.
[youtube]
You can not spend all your time in worry about dying, you must live a full and rich life, you can not let the prospect of death interfere with your life, and I'm not doing all this thinking about death because the thought of dying somehow bothers me, on the contrary, I'm completely comfortable with the notion, my Entheogenic experiences enhanced my understanding of death , as well as life, and diminished my fear regarding death, and now it's simply curiosity which remains...

Wei Po-Yang, known as the "father of alchemy" said: Worry is preposterous, you do not know enough to worry."

...as McKenna would say relating to the above statement "it's better to function in place, and wonder"

No matter how I look at it, death as an "end" of consciousness seems unlikely, so what then can it be?

As far as introspective speculations on the matter I'm a little burned out for the time being, when I have a little more energy I can elaborate on the issue, but it's going to have to be tomorrow, or after I have had some rest.

-eg
 
Sometimes I use to think solipsistically about it. I have never perceived others' consciousness, maybe I'm the whole existence and my death will just be the beginning of a different storyline.

One moment I'll be me, then suddenly someone else.
 
I am dirt, I am nutrients, I am seeds, I am plants, I am food, I am animals, I am energy, I am fertilizer

I am matter
I am the substrate

I am the organism
I am the energy within it

I am the brain
I am the consciousness within it

I am my ego
I am spirit

I am life
I am death

Who am I? Who lives and dies? Who knows in death who one was when one lived? Who knows in life those selves who have perished?

I think it's fundamentally unknowable until we experience it

I 'know' this life as deeply as I experience it
Perhaps death is unknowable for there is no one left to experience iT
as even in one's final hours there still exists life in them
and even in death life still exists around the one who dies

but here I'm still using language so it's pretty much moot
intriguing to discuss


However, on another 'more practical' note, I've noticed that when I exercise really hard for example and become short of breath, or when I'm tripping so hard I feel as though I must hold on for dear life, these moments certainly give me a greater appreciation of life.

And on another woo-woo visceral note of philosophical enigma:
perhaps, due to our limited experience of life, what with a few decades to get to know this experience, we lean extremely heavily on the works and understandings of those who came before us to decode life for us, but, like the psychedelic experience, perhaps the life experience is in a similar vein where it will come out of the blue with something completely unexpected occurring...such as our lives never ending and we walk around in some technicolour blob world 500 years from now extracting 420-☯-N-N-DimethylPeaceLoveOmamine on sixteen legs.

But thats just me.
 
Yay! I finally get to bomb a thread with a bunch of long-winded semi-related quotes. :twisted:

Your death can give you a little warning, it always comes as a chill. Death is our eternal companion, it is always to our left, at an arm's length.
How can anyone feel so important when we know that death is stalking us. The thing to do when you're impatient is to turn to your left and ask advice from your death. An immense amount of pettiness is dropped if your death makes a gesture to you, or if you catch a glimpse of it, or if you just have the feeling that your companion is there watching you.
The issue of our death is never pressed far enough. Death is the only wise adviser that we have. Whenever you feel, as you always do, that everything is going wrong and you're about to be annihilated, turn to your death and ask if that is so. Your death will tell you that you're wrong; that nothing really matters outside its touch. Your death will tell you, "I haven't touched you yet."
One of us here has to change, and fast. One of us here has to learn again that death is the hunter, and that it is always to one's left. One of us here has to ask deaths advice and drop the cursed pettiness that belongs to men that live their lives as if death will never tap them.

Think of your death now. It is at arm's length. It may tap you any moment, so really you have no time for crappy thoughts and moods. None of us have time for that. The only thing that counts is action, acting instead of talking.
Click to expand...

When a man decides to do something he must go all the way, but he must take responsibility for what he does. No matter what he does, he must know first why he is doing it, and then he must proceed with his actions without having doubts or remorse about them.
Look at me, I have no doubts or remorse. Everything I do is my decision and my responsibility. The simplest thing I do, to take you for a walk in the desert for instance, may very well mean my death. Death is stalking me. Therefore, I have no room for doubts or remorse. If I have to die as a result of taking you for a walk, then I must die.
You on the other hand, feel that you are immortal, and the decisions of an immortal man can be cancelled or regretted or doubted. In a world where death is the hunter, my friend, there is not time for regrets or doubts. There is only time for decisions.
When you get angry you always feel righteous. You have been complaining all your life because you don't assume responsibility for your decisions. To assume the responsibility of one's decisions means that one is ready to die for them. It doesn't matter what the decision is. Nothing could be more or less serious than anything else. In a world where death is the hunter there are no small or big decisions. There are only decisions that we make in the face of our inevitable death.
Click to expand...

We are all going to die. There is something out there waiting for me, for sure; and I will join it, also for sure. Use it. Focus your attention on the link between you and your death, without remorse or sadness or worrying. Focus your attention on the fact you don't have time and let your acts flow accordingly. Let each of your acts be your last battle on earth. Only under those conditions will your acts have their rightful power. Otherwise they will be, for as long as you live, the acts of a timid man. There is no time for timidity, simply because timidity makes you cling to something that exists only in your thoughts. It soothes you while everything is at a lull, but then the awesome, mysterious world will open its mouth for you, as it will open for every one of us, and then you will realize that your sure ways were not sure at all. Being timid prevents us from examining and exploiting our lot as men.
Click to expand...
 
[YOUTUBE]
.
I cant profess to know with certainty anything about death other than its terrible and beautiful finality.
It gives me a strange comfort, knowing there is at least this much certainty.
I can escape taxes, but not death.
It can be my master or I can master it.
 
Consider our planet orbit the sun at 67,000 mph (107,000 km/h) and that our galaxy is moving 70 miles per second (112 km per second). We are – our planet a bullet projectile running thru time and space. Life, reality – is really really weird…

Death seems equally weird. If not more so. Unless the 1000+ stories at IANDS (International Association for Near Death Studies) and NDERF (Near Death Experience Research Foundation) are totally full of nut jobs – the “afterlife” seems pretty real and amazing. However, who want to die to get there?

As for life, it seems or must be a “purpose” either it be for your own amusement, experience, growth w/a.

Death, as a end “goal” of the journey seems kind of mandatory. Everything dies, even suns and galaxies. The only thing that seems to go against this is “space”. Consider, if it’s true or not – but seems so – that the entire universe is expanding constantly – and not only that, it increase in speed doing so. Is there an end to this?

As for ourselves, we could argue that we are expanding too – as souls or w/e. Is there an end to this? Moreover, do we increase in speed as well doing so? *Just a fun thought experiment

I think death is a blessing in disguise. We are afraid to face it – but once we do we laugh ourself silly. IF NDE accounts are true, the ones that experienced them almost all (if not all) lost fear of death afterwards.

The NDE accounts are quite profound to read/lissen too. They share some insights to the dying process and the absolute bliss that follows.
 
I still think the human body is a temporary vessel who's function is to play life support for the current stage of our mental creation. We're in a particularly unstable stage of our creation so a body was added that plays the role of holding things together when otherwise a mind would fade or just fail.

Take note of the psychological change that takes place between birth and death. Also note the spiritual or otherwise choices or decisions each individual makes as well as some of the "seen" consequences.

My hypothesis is that if you put in the work, by the time your body fails, your mind will have a better opportunity to hold together without the help of a flesh body. There's endless variables, but I think to sum it up that's what we're experiencing here.

There are great and amazing things in the world/space etc. but as I'm sure some of you, if not all of you are aware of, the real magic happens right there in your mind. Things modern science will never have a chance of explaining or defining. So I suspect this entire life here on earth is a step, or learning of, how to correctly live and communicate as well as enjoy the life we will ultimately graduate into.

Is death the end? I have no idea and it is one hell of a thrill knowing we all have that ahead of us. A thrill seekers paradise as far as rolling the dice go, but from what I've observed, I just cant come up with a reasonable theory or explaination as to why things would progress to this level of complexity just to be thrown away and forgotten. That makes zero sense to me and seems a polar oppisite to what I have thus far witnessed here.

The good news (maybe) is each and everyone of us is going to find out the answer. Of that you can be sure, so why not enjoy our time while we wait for that answer, right?

What if this really is just a one shot, random chance reality? Just a 1 in a billion fluke? It's quite overwhelming to be included in that. So either way, in either scenario, it is quite the realization to realize you get to take part in it. And then if it does go on, how much better? Graced by life's presence man, what a trip..
 
Limbol said:
Consider our planet orbit the sun at 67,000 mph (107,000 km/h) and that our galaxy is moving 70 miles per second (112 km per second). We are – our planet a bullet projectile running thru time and space. Life, reality – is really really weird…

Death seems equally weird. If not more so. Unless the 1000+ stories at IANDS (International Association for Near Death Studies) and NDERF (Near Death Experience Research Foundation) are totally full of nut jobs – the “afterlife” seems pretty real and amazing. However, who want to die to get there?

As for life, it seems or must be a “purpose” either it be for your own amusement, experience, growth w/a.

Death, as a end “goal” of the journey seems kind of mandatory. Everything dies, even suns and galaxies. The only thing that seems to go against this is “space”. Consider, if it’s true or not – but seems so – that the entire universe is expanding constantly – and not only that, it increase in speed doing so. Is there an end to this?

As for ourselves, we could argue that we are expanding too – as souls or w/e. Is there an end to this? Moreover, do we increase in speed as well doing so? *Just a fun thought experiment

I think death is a blessing in disguise. We are afraid to face it – but once we do we laugh ourself silly. IF NDE accounts are true, the ones that experienced them almost all (if not all) lost fear of death afterwards.

The NDE accounts are quite profound to read/lissen too. They share some insights to the dying process and the absolute bliss that follows.
Click to expand...
People who experience an NDE are definitely not "nutjobs", anybody can have an NDE if near-death, these experiences definitely happen, whether they are the result of a misfiring of residual brain activity or a true encounter with the divine.

Something about NDEs that people don't usually know about is that "negative" NDEs actually exist.
These are basically a similar version of an NDE but where instead of bliss, you get a terrifying experience, much like a bad trip with psychedelics.

Greyson and Bush (1996) classified "distressing NDEs" in three categories, according to the folks who experienced them:

1. a similar version of a classic NDE with the usual components (the tunnel, the light, etc.) but experienced as frightening by the individual
2. a terrifying experience of an overwhelming feeling of being alone in the universe forever in the void. They often receive a very convincing message that they never existed and nothing ever truly existed.
3. an even more rare case of an NDE with hellish imagery, such as demons, scary animals, loud noises.

Distressing Near-Death Experiences

IANDS, International Association for Near Death Studies
iands.org

The authors concluded that there was no particular difference between the people who had a distressing NDE and the classic NDE (no difference in terms of background, mental health profile, etc.), and the ones who had a negative NDE ask themselves why that had to happen to them (and they don't necessarily see any benefit from the negative version of an NDE).

I think any attempt at an explanation of the NDE phenomenon (whether a materialist one or a spiritual one) needs to account for this negative version of the experience.
 
Given what this life brings to the table, I never really took that suggestion as the comforting idea I often see it portrayed as being.

Infact it's a good bit more concerning when you think about it. Physical death is coming either way whether physically violent or peacefully in your sleep. Given the difference between the two scenarios, there are a lot of variables but the promise of death includes with it that you will black out and everything will stop. A tap out, I'm done, sort of thing.

Saying that transformation is promised opens up a pandora's box of, who knows? I've witnessed death, usually it's about 90% get a horrid dragging on, miserable experience. The black out doesn't come quick enough. For the other 10% they may just fall asleep one night and, poof, gone.

So, the details of that transformation become pretty much key highlights of interest. Especially when it's someone who doesn't necessarily believe in some kind of God that's the one suggesting this possibility.

I'd like to think we all end up in some warm and fuzzy wonderland where we have a personal God to wipe every tear from our eyes and everything suddenly becomes magically ok for ever and ever amen. But this current formation of life, suggests something very different. You don't find much mercy on this earth, it's pretty cutthroat, all around. So the thought of it never ending, but just spinning into other formations hits me personally as a little potentially troubling.

That's just one aspect of what I suspect, but I'll spare you the full rundown of what I believe is taking place here. Truth be told I hope and believe I can see how there could be a great "accomplishment" that will land us in an entirely different setting eventually.

I just think it's smart to really evaluate what you think you believe. All different sides and aspects because there is always some other "factor" that can potentially throw everything you think you stood for into dust. And by that very "factor's" nature and definition, you never see it coming until it's inside you.
 
I've witnessed death, usually it's about 90% get a horrid dragging on, miserable experience. The black out doesn't come quick enough. For the other 10% they may just fall asleep one night and, poof, gone.
Click to expand...

Yes, that lucky 10%!

A friend of mine died of breast cancer a few years ago.. thank god there are good euthanasia laws in this country, or it would have been hopeless torture for more months. In such cases, death is graceful... illness is the ugly process that leads to it.


Transformation: yes, or maybe something like this in some generic programming language:

10 login new System (Birth)
20 live Life
30 logout (Death)
40 process Life information and integrate
50 take a break
60 if Boredom == TRUE then goto 10
 
Back
Top Bottom