• Members of the previous forum can retrieve their temporary password here, (login and check your PM).

Density and ionic strength questions

Migrated topic.
dooby

dooby

Rising Star
Hello,

I'm looking for ways to facilitate or speed up the process of water crystallisation of dmt-freebase...

I would like to know if I could manipulate the solutions density or ionic strength in a way that benefits the crystallisation process.

Hence the following questions
1. What factors affect the density of a solution? Temperature, pressure, adding chemicals?
2. Are there chemicals that could be used without creating negative side-reactions?
3. What techniques or chemicals apart from NaCl could be used to increase ionic strength/polarity of the solution, in the case of adding chemicals - without creating negative side-reactions? (e.g. the creation of dmt-hydrochloride through addition of NaCl)

Thanks ;)

PLUR
 
1. Temperature will not affect density but rather viscosity of a liquid; Pressure will have no effect; dissolving stuff like NaCl or sugar will increase the density.

2. table salt or any other salt that is a product of a strong base and a strong acid (like NaCl, Na2SO4, KCl, K2SO4) is the first that comes to mind; simple sugars like glucose and fructose or sucrose may be used but they may react at pH extremes.

3. See 1 and 2 for suggestions. NaCl will never form dmt hydrochloride in high pH due to dmt being freebased). And in low pH NaCl will not form dmt hydrochloride either (because there is not such a thing as salt when said salt is dissolved in water).


Good luck at trying to speed water crystallisation of dmt freebase from water, even though I do not think that there is absolute need for doing so! If there was a necessity to speed things up I would probably try something totally different.
 
Infundibulum said:
Good luck at trying to speed water crystallisation of dmt freebase from water, even though I do not think that there is absolute need for doing so! If there was a necessity to speed things up I would probably try something totally different.
Click to expand...

Thank you for the education/inspiration/confirmation (regarding the NaCl)...

And maybe I should have said "make more efficient" rather than "speed up" ;)

I also forgot to ask: do centrifugal forces affect density of a liquid? Or does that count as pressure as well?

edit - needless to say I will post results and observations of any experiments I do (if I mess up I can still pull from the solution with an nps, lol)
 
You're welcome.

Density is a function of weight so since centrifugal forces in effect affect g then yes, centrifugation will affect density, only while things centrifuge though. Not sure how you plan on applying that however.
 
It makes sense that centrifugal benefits would be only temporary - reaping them would imply centrifuging while freezing, which due to my lack of a centrifuge that fits into a freezer will remain a hypothetical option...

I may run a side-by-side comparison however of a salted and a non-salted solution - unfortunately most solubility data regards room-temperature or above... Data for near-freezing or freezing conditions would be very helpful - I would like to make sure that all solutes remain in solution except for the wanted alkaloids, at least if that's possible...
 
For anyone who is interested (apart from myself)...

The density of water is at its highest between 0 and 4 °C (highest at 4 °C)

Increasing the density of the water, at 4 °C, to a point where it is denser than dmt requires 125 g of NaCl per litre of water - well within its solubility limits ;)...

This should make sure that the dmt floats on top of the solution?

density of dmt: 1099 kg/m³ - density of saline solution (125000 ppm): 1101 kg/m³

I can't do a side-by-side comparison at the moment, as it would require splitting in half a fresh batch - the current batch already has a lot of crystals forming so it's hard to divide into two even parts as far as alkaloid content of the solution is concerned...

I will however measure my solutions volume and add 125000 ppm of NaCl just to see if this makes the dmt float or not - which of course it should, theoretically ;)
 
Yes, it can/does...

Unfortunately I cannot prove yet that dmt will float in a solution if the solutions density is high enough...

The saline solution should be dense enough, but the increased ionic strength seems to be very detrimental to crystal formation - I suppose due to inter- or intramolecular forces?

I could pull with an nps and start over ;)

Or I could try to find a way to reduce the solution ionic strength without affecting pH too much or without creating unwanted by-products...

Next time I'll have to try to increase density without the use of NaCl, lol

PLUR

ps I'm not giving up yet...
 
Back
Top Bottom