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Discussion on Visuals, Increasing them, Effects of MAOI, and other Spice Additives

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Apoc

Apoc

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HELLO!!!!

I recently had a smoked spice trip. While it was awesome, it was short. I assumed that if I take maoi's before smoking, it will make the trip last longer, and potentiate the effects, just like an oral dose. But then I read this comment from this thread Mescaline visuals - Generic - Welcome to the DMT-Nexus

bufoman said:
The claims of MAOI's enhancing visuals are interesting. In the literature and in SWIMs experience personally and with close friends harmine and harmaline taken alone decrease the visuals of smoked DMT. There also exist reports in the literature of several MAOI's decreasing the effects of LSD and DMT especially the visuals. Not sure about mescaline? If anyone is interested I can post the name of a review that can be found on erowid article database. Jonathan Ott has also talked about this in that he said people mistake "activation" of oral DMT by MAOIs with "potentiation". Thus the MAOIs actually decrease the intensity of the experience and alter it in their own way. However it may depend on the drug taken as in the harmaline sec of tihkal Shulgin reports potentiation of mescaline with harmaline.

Also THH definitely potentiates the visuals of DMT especially in combination with MAOIs but also alone to dome degree. I think many people on here will back this statement up. It is interesting how it overrides the visual attenuating effects of harmine and harmaline. I wonder what THH would do to a non-visual hallucinogen like 5-MeO-DMT ? THH may thus play an important role in ayahuasca. Still one can still get strong visuals off of DMT if enough is ingested. Therefore the effects may very likely depend on the specific MAOI taken... as well as the hallucinogen. I am not aware of any studies of MAOI on mescaline aside from Shulgin's reports I will take a closer look at them.

SWIM found mescaline to be visual maybe not as intense as some other drugs but still significant and equivalent or more so than as 2C-Xs. I suspect everyone is different in this regard. Also with psilocin and DMT SWIM has had trips that were very visual and others that were mostly psychological with minimal visuals. Thus one needs to take a compound many times in the same setting to fully understand its effects.
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This surprised me. What are other peoples experiences with maoi and smoking? Do harmaline and harmine actually decrease visuals when smoking? And does thh really increase the visuals? Do the maoi's prolong the experience? If not, are there other substances which can prolong or enhance a smoked experience?
 
Dosing harmalas sublingual for me 15 minutes before smoking potentiates the visuals to a greater degree(more colors,and difference in colors comparable to which harmalas are being used), and the body load pre launch comes on much stronger.

The biggest difference though is the time window before launch when your taking your tokes. It's extended to where you can get more tokes in. And the comedown can last around an hour for me sometimes depending on the harmala dose.

Everyones different though
 
In my personal experience, Caapi tea will DEFINITELY deepen the experience. Duration is extended, intensity of the voyage is extended, and I tend to have more time to revel in awe at the inner workings of the universe. I am, however, also extremely sensitive to Caapi and it has many effects on its own at small doses for me...

As for straight up visuals, though, I can't really comment. They are so variable from experience to experience. Sometimes I have no "visuals," only a shift in color field and have a totally different experience through my entire body.

The feeling I got while smoking, one day, was that I immediately needed to go and drink some Ayahuasca. It was like smoking can open a veil--but Ayahuasca lends the strength to hold it open for a bit longer, if that makes sense.
 
Harmalas definatly decrease visuals big time. For me its like -30% at least!
The most visual friendly experience would be a sublingual pre-dose of 10mg syrian rue harmala extract. It's also slightly visionary for me this way.
 
SWIM agrees MAOI's seem to decrease visuals of smoked DMT.
However with high enough doses one can get strong visuals.

Plenty of reports in the literature exist where various MAOIs (typically non-selective) decreased the effects of DMT and LSD. In some cases the effects were almost attenuated patients said they just felt a little weird but nothing like there previous experiences witrh the substances.
 
Interesting. Before i started using any of the harmalas I used to always vape in the range of 40-50mg on average and use nothing else. The first time I picked up some THH and harmaline. I used about 30mg THH and 30mg harmaline subling. Decided to vape 40mg shortly after..... I was blown away.. I mean sure...the experience was slowed down a bit..but the onset was stronger and visually I thought it stepped up several notches in comparison to just vaped spice. There was more intricacy with it, color seemed much brighter and there was a definite color change compared to just vaped spice.
 
It very likely depends on the type of MAOI taken and the doses. Mixtures may also have different effects. There is also a thread regarding the THH that has been available. I am not going to get into it here but maybe check it out. SWIM has had experiences on harmalas which were very visual but has also had ones that were not.

Oral Harmaline (120 mg) (90% pure with 10% harmine Confirmed identity) for SWIM and his close friends for sure seems to decrease the visuals of freebased N,N-. This was confirmed several times. It may also be that low dose sub-lingual may have different effects. We don't know yet but it should be looked at.
 
This thread seems to be rather vague in referring to simply "harmalas".
From people's posts, it seems like the decrease of visuals is usually due to harmaline and harmine taken sublingually. Does the decrease in visuals also apply to harmine and harmaline when vaped with the spice?

Personally, my vaped caapi leaf extracts in changa have always seemed to increase the visuals significantly, especially at sub-breakthrough levels. Freebase at low levels usually just made me feel a little funny, along an altered state of mind and some color changes. But if you throw some 10x caapi leaf into the mix, it's the difference between feeling funny and having the walls melt into dancing Aztecs.
 
Wow... indeed it is generally agreed that the leaves have little THH. Like ms_manic_minxx, I too always thought they were chock full of THH. I guess not!

In that case, a little vaped harmine goes a long way in increasing the visuals, methinks. Or at least
harmine+a little THH, considering those reports showed some THH content in the leaves.
 
From people's posts, it seems like the decrease of visuals is usually due to harmaline and harmine taken sublingually
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For me, a caapi extract decreases visuals the most, while a syrian rue extract sublingualy leaves them intact the most.
 
I find these responses very interesting because they are so conflicting. Some people are saying harmalas (harmine, harmaline, thh) do increase visuals. Some say that only thh increases visuals, and the other ones decrease visuals. And some say that visuals increase if the maoi is taken sublingually. I guess there is no concrete answer on this, I'll have to see for myself.
 
To add further confusion: harmine and harmaline sublingually slow down the experience but don’t effect the visuals, and THH (or whatever it is I’ve been taking that’s labeled THH 😉 ) intensifies the visuals but doesn’t seem to slow down the experience at all.

All three (harmine, harmaline, THH) change the nature of the experiences – my first true spiritual DMT experience was with sublingual Caapi Copy, and some of my strangest experiences (strange even by DMT standards) were with THH.
 
Route of administration and dose are likely key factors.

Higher doses may lead to greater attenuation whereas lower doses may enhance. Harmala's have a variety of pharmacological effects they are not just selective RIMAs.

With the "THH" it seems at least for SWIM she was usually taking lower doses than other harmala's (<100mg)and taking it sublingual whereas harmine and harmaline were usually taken at higher doses and orally. I know others have taken "higher doses" of "THH". Also experience to experience can be very variable even with the same doses.
 
gibran2 said:
To add further confusion: harmine and harmaline sublingually slow down the experience but don’t effect the visuals, and THH (or whatever it is I’ve been taking that’s labeled THH 😉 ) intensifies the visuals but doesn’t seem to slow down the experience at all.
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What do you mean when you say harmine slows down the experience? Also, does anyone know why it's so important to take the RIMA's sublingually? Why not orally? Thanks.
 
Apoc said:
does anyone know why it's so important to take the RIMA's sublingually? Why not orally? Thanks.
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The sublingual route has a higher absorption rate so it takes smaller doses.

White sage (Salvia apiana) decreased visuals but there was still a very bright background. Chiricaspi (Brunfelsia chiricaspi, "Cold Tree") increased colors with ayahuasca though never tried it with the vaped dmt.
 
Well, just to sort ANY of this out, has anyone tried both sublingual and smoked harmalas and can compare?
As mentioned, vaped harmalas add to the visuals for me. But mostly I'm hearing that sublingual decreases the visuals. Anyone tried both and can definitively compare?
 
Bananaforeskin, I've tried (evertything predose+smoked freebase)

-homemade caapi copy sublingual 30mg: Anxiety, serious tone of the experience, little visuals, slightly longer peak, slower onset
-smoked caapi vine predose: similiar to the sublingual administrattion but more visuals, slightly longer peak, slower onset
-smoked caapi leaf 10x vine predose: Toned down visuals, slightly longer peak, slower onset
-crude syrian rue extract sublingual 10mg: Slower and fewer visuals but not toned down, slightly visionary, peak very prolonged, slower onset
 
I have never experienced a quantitative effect from any MAOI on visuals. Not even with large doses of MAOI's. Maybe some minor effects on the quality of visuals, making them clearer or foggier.
Datura has a much greater effect on visuals and cannabis also noticeably enhances visuals for me.
 
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