dmt acetate is soluble in acetone ?

[xa]

i ask if dmt acetate salt are soluble in acetone, i mean that dissolve dmt goo in winegar, filter and evaporate until dry, then add acetone to wash it and then basify again and pull with acetone...can be possible to have a more clean product ? if acetone don't dissolve dmt acetate but the other impurities and fat oil.

 

[downwardsfromzero]

So, nobody noticed this post?

Have you tried this yet?

DMT acetate is usually pretty soggy so unless you've dried it in a desiccator it'll very likely dissolve significantly in the acetone. But that's just an educated guess.
It could go either way.

 

[Ulim]

Acetone will dissolve dmt acetate just like it dissolves dmt and acetic acid. As a polar solvent it will gooble up the acetic acid salt no time.

Also for example fumararic acid dissolves well in acetone even tho fumaric acid usually dissolves terrbily.

As a solvent acetone is pretty good.

 

[downwardsfromzero]

Also for example dmt fumarate dissolves well in acetone even tho fumaric acid usually dissolves terrbily.

If that's the case then all these FASA techniques are a complete waste of time

Or have I accidentally stepped into another universe again?

Fair enough though, that if the acetone or fumarate is even a bit damp then solubility goes up significantly.

 

[Ulim]

Also for example dmt fumarate dissolves well in acetone even tho fumaric acid usually dissolves terrbily.

If that's the case then all these FASA techniques are a complete waste of time

Or have I accidentally stepped into another universe again?

Fair enough though, that if the acetone or fumarate is even a bit damp then solubility goes up significantly.

"FASA" stands for Fumaric Acid Saturated Acetone. I'll use that acronym throughout this post to refer to anhydrous acetone that has been saturated with fumaric acid. 100 mL of acetone can dissolve about 618 mg of fumaric acid)

Thats a better solublity than in water.

 

[endlessness]

Do you have any practical experiment to back up your claim of dmt fumarate solubility in acetone, Ulim, or are you talking theoretically? What do you define as "well" when talking about solubility, in mg/ml?

That quote you posted is about fumaric acid, not dmt fumarate.

 

[Ulim]

I meant fumaric acid not the fumarate :surprised
didnt see i wrote the wrong thing

Could test it. But i currently have to drying agent for acetone.

 

[Ulim]

50mg dmt
anhydrous acetic acid 1g on 10 ml

 

[Ulim]

Dissolved quickly with no rest. Just slight yellow hue in the liquid

 

[skoobysnax]

Curious how something using acetone ended up under eco-friendly? Def safer than some of the other petro chems but...

 

[Ulim]

Curious how something using acetone ended up under eco-friendly? Def safer than some of the other petro chems but...

Acetone is commonly found in plants. Pears. Apples many flowers and your own body all produce acetone.
That doesnt mean you should drink it or pour it all over your skin tho.

Acetone is made as a byproduct in the production of phenol from benzene but can also be made either from fermentation with some bacteria or by destructive destilation of calcium acetate.

 

[downwardsfromzero]

destructive destilation of calcium acetate.

I tried that when I was a teenager. It sort of works, but of course the crude product stinks. It's still a good argument that acetone should be included in the eco friendly section of the forum as it is accessible to the determined through the use of non-toxic natural materials.

Chalk (or egg/snail/sea shells) + vinegar -> calcium acetate -(+heat)-> acetone

So acetone is accessible even on a desert island, more or less.

 

[Ulim]

Dry cold acetone.
Dried over fresh magnesium sulfate overnight in the freezer.

 

[Ulim]

Dmt acetate. Brownish goo with some dust in it because it dried open :roll:

 

[Ulim]

Dissolved immeadiatly upon adding 5ml of the acetone. So its safe to say it has a high solublity in acetone.

 

[some one]

Just curious..

dmt-citrate + fumaric acid <-> dmt-fumarate + citric acid

citric acid has a pKa of 3.13, while fumaric acid's pka is 3.43. Fumaric acid is a weaker acid and thus in the above reaction one should have most of the dmt as a citrate salt and just a tiny amount as a fumarate salt. dmt-fumarate however is totally insoluble in acetone (while dmt-citrate is perfectly soluble), and it precipitates as soon as it forms. The insolubility of dmt-fumarate acts therefore as a "sink" and given time all of the dmt-citrate will eventually convert to dmt-fumarate and precipitate out.

Does the same apply for acetic acid? (= pKa 4.76)

If you add FASA to a DMT-acitate acetone solution, will DMT-fumerate precipitate out?

 

[downwardsfromzero]

Just curious..

dmt-citrate + fumaric acid <-> dmt-fumarate + citric acid

citric acid has a pKa of 3.13, while fumaric acid's pka is 3.43. Fumaric acid is a weaker acid and thus in the above reaction one should have most of the dmt as a citrate salt and just a tiny amount as a fumarate salt. dmt-fumarate however is totally insoluble in acetone (while dmt-citrate is perfectly soluble), and it precipitates as soon as it forms. The insolubility of dmt-fumarate acts therefore as a "sink" and given time all of the dmt-citrate will eventually convert to dmt-fumarate and precipitate out.

Does the same apply for acetic acid? (= pKa 4.76)

If you add FASA to a DMT-acitate acetone solution, will DMT-fumerate precipitate out?

Great question that deserves to be answered ASAP. Quite a stop-start thread this one, eh?! (I think the answer will be 'Yes!')

 

[Brennendes Wasser]

Sadly can't confirm both

dmt-citrate + fumaric acid <-> dmt-fumarate + citric acid

citric acid has a pKa of 3.13, while fumaric acid's pka is 3.43. Fumaric acid is a weaker acid and thus in the above reaction one should have most of the dmt as a citrate salt and just a tiny amount as a fumarate salt. dmt-fumarate however is totally insoluble in acetone (while dmt-citrate is perfectly soluble), and it precipitates as soon as it forms. The insolubility of dmt-fumarate acts therefore as a "sink" and given time all of the dmt-citrate will eventually convert to dmt-fumarate and precipitate out.

DMT Citrate will instantly precipitate very voluminously and create a goo, so there is no "sink" over time to remove something from the equilibrium.

If you add FASA to a DMT-acitate acetone solution, will DMT-fumerate precipitate out?

I just checked, indeed you get clouds. But there is nothing precipitating. I let it for evaporation and what I got was just a goo. Molecular ratios were pretty precise, so I guess it would not work? :?

 

[downwardsfromzero]

Thanks for trying!

I just checked, indeed you get clouds. But there is nothing precipitating. I let it for evaporation and what I got was just a goo. Molecular ratios were pretty precise, so I guess it would not work?

One further confirmatory experiment would be to try dissolving DMT fumarate in some acetone spiked with the equivalent amount of acetic acid to the molar amount of DMT present in the DMT fumarate solubility test material, stir for a bit, remove the liquid and evaporate in a weighing boat. This would demonstrate any solubility that arises from the acetic/fumaric/acetone combo. It's possible that some equilibrium amount of DMT acetate and DMT bifumarate will form - the pKa's are fairly close, so maybe up to 10% as a rough guess - which, if the bifumarate also has appreciable solubility, will lead to up to 20% of the DMT going into solution.

At least evaporation recovers things, and acetic acid is volatile.

Maybe the precipitation can be forced with excess fumaric to a certain extent. After that (and after removing the supernatant), strong evaporation will drive off most of the remaining acetic acid and a quick rinse with fresh acetone will clean up any remaining excess fumaric. Maybe.

 

[Transform]

Thanks for trying!

One further confirmatory experiment would be to try dissolving DMT fumarate in some acetone spiked with the equivalent amount of acetic acid to the molar amount of DMT present in the DMT fumarate solubility test material, stir for a bit, remove the liquid and evaporate in a weighing boat. This would demonstrate any solubility that arises from the acetic/fumaric/acetone combo. It's possible that some equilibrium amount of DMT acetate and DMT bifumarate will form - the pKa's are fairly close, so maybe up to 10% as a rough guess - which, if the bifumarate also has appreciable solubility, will lead to up to 20% of the DMT going into solution.

At least evaporation recovers things, and acetic acid is volatile.

Maybe the precipitation can be forced with excess fumaric to a certain extent. After that (and after removing the supernatant), strong evaporation will drive off most of the remaining acetic acid and a quick rinse with fresh acetone will clean up any remaining excess fumaric. Maybe.

In addition to this, the acetic acid is likely to be a reasonably good solvent for DMT fumarate. Keeping everything anhydrous would be something of a challenge, of course.