DMT, Disrespect, & a Lack of Ass-Kicking

[Exitwound]

> I’m not sure why some here in the Nexus are either critical, cynical, or dismissive about the sacred ways of curanderos

Just my opinion:
Maybe it's skepsis not about ways of curanderos, but about the way you present yourself. Maybe, because you feel the need to mention your 20 years with curanderos in almost every thread you participate. The way I see it, true teachers don't need to put their diplomas on the wall for all to observe.

I am personally, not skeptical about ways of shamans and/or curanderos at all. But I believe, shamans and/or curanderos don't hold the monopoly on the truth, there are many different paths, as valid as the one you mention.

 

[Ajqij]

> I’m not sure why some here in the Nexus are either critical, cynical, or dismissive about the sacred ways of curanderos

Just my opinion:
Maybe it's skepsis not about ways of curanderos, but about the way you present yourself. Maybe, because you feel the need to mention your 20 years with curanderos in almost every thread you participate. The way I see it, true teachers don't need to put their diplomas on the wall for all to observe.

I am personally, not skeptical about ways of shamans and/or curanderos at all. But I believe, shamans and/or curanderos don't hold the monopoly on the truth, there are many different paths, as valid as the one you mention.

Would you please direct me to any of my posts where I claim "curanderos hold the monopoly on the truth?" I'd like to see one, and if you can't find one, I humbly ask that you reflect on, and share with me and others following this thread why you would interpret my sharing in that way.

Also, I'm proud of, and humbled by the 20 years I spent south of the boarder, and I share it in some of my threads to provide people with enough information about my background to perhaps become interested in what I have to offer. . . but hey, you're welcome to take it to the demeaning place you did if that's your deal.

And finally, I'm not here to make enemies, @Exitwound, but in my experience, you are less than welcoming, accusitory in your opinions, and painfuilly lacking in curiosity and humility. And for whatever it's worth . . . "exit wound" is exactly how it feels to be on the receiving end of your opinions. I would like to back up with you and see if we can start fresh as I value you as a member here, whether your "established," "senior" or whatever other "diplomas" are endorsed here.

 

[Varallo]

Would you please direct me to any of my posts where I claim "curanderos hold the monopoly on the truth?" I'd like to see one, and if you can't find one, I humbly ask that you reflect on, and share with me and others following this thread why you would interpret my sharing in that way.

Also, I'm proud of, and humbled by the 20 years I spent south of the boarder, and I share it in some of my threads to provide people with enough information about my background to perhaps become interested in what I have to offer. . . but hey, you're welcome to take it to the demeaning place you did if that's your deal.

And finally, I'm not here to make enemies, @Exitwound, but in my experience, you are less than welcoming, accusitory in your opinions, and painfuilly lacking in curiosity and humility. And for whatever it's worth . . . "exit wound" is exactly how it feels to be on the receiving end of your opinions. I would like to back up with you and see if we can start fresh as I value you as a member here, whether your "established," "senior" or whatever other "diplomas" are endorsed here.

Ajqij, no one said you used the phrase “monopoly on the truth”, but your framing has consistently positioned curanderos as uniquely connected to deeper wisdom, and modern thinkers as too arrogant, disconnected, or unworthy to access it. That’s not a misreading, that’s what multiple people have pointed out in response to your actual words.

Then while your personal experience is valid and clearly important to you, when it’s used as a shield against critique, or as the basis for authority in a conversation, it becomes fair game for discussion. That’s not “demeaning” that’s what happens in healthy dialogue.

And as for the final part of your message: calling someone unwelcoming, accusatory, and lacking in humility right before saying you want to start fresh isn’t reconciliation, it’s performance, and manipulation. If you genuinely want mutual respect, it begins with owning your tone as much as you ask others to own theirs.

Again if you are really serious about being an member here, and being accepted, then you need to reflect on your behavior and stop this now all to recognizable pattern of behavior.

 

[Exitwound]

@Aiqij
Hard to talk when the other person misinterprets your words and takes answers to their questions as personal attacks.

Also what's up with that flame for some title/flair the forum software has automatically assigned to me. I've changed it, is it better now?
Since you changed yours, I thought you'd know more than flame others for some forum flair they might not even pay attention to

P.s. you can also put "20 years experience of traveling in Central and South America and of collaborations and journeys with shamans, elders, and curanderos over those years. " in the signature, this way you won't need to type it every time, could save you a bit of time and energy too.

 

[brokedownpalace10]

Most people would get slapped. Some would not.
It has been said in the thread that a person might get what they are looking for. If they want a party or an escape then it's possible that's what they might get.
First off, it's just more enlightenment for the rest of us. But second, you might just feel sorry for that person.
I've seen people online who said they overused psychedelics in a partying way like that and they had to quit them through an effort of will or a 5 step program like any other addictive drug. Even when I overused LSD for a time in my teens, I never had that kind of feeling or relationship with it. It got old and I stopped because I felt like it.
Maybe those "partyers" on psychedelics can also develop an addictive relationship with them that the rest of us just won't. Maybe pity them?

 

[Ajqij]

Most people would get slapped. Some would not.
It has been said in the thread that a person might get what they are looking for. If they want a party of an escape then it's possible that's what they might get.
First off, it's just more enlightenment for the rest of us. But second, you might just feel sorry for that person.
I've seen people online who said they overused psychedelics in a partying way like that and they had to quit them through an effort of will or a 5 step program like any other addictive drug. Even when I overused LSD for a time in my teens, I never had that kind of feeling or relationship with it. It got old and I stopped because I felt like it.
Maybe those "partyers" on psychedelics can also develop an addictive relationship with them that the rest of us just won't. Maybe pity them?

@brokedownpalace, yes, the "Slap" in my estimation is about entering a sacred space, (both into being human and into the DMT state) with excessive baggage, arrogance, separateness, and a closed-mindedness. If one were authentically curious and interested in gaining greater insight in their lives through the use of plant medicine (or their extractions), they might wonder why the entities, others, (or whatever you wish to call them/it) seem to hand out such firm reflections. I suspect, (and am not asserting truth here, but simply my take) that their "firm bent of nature" towards requiring a measure of humility for visitors is because this rigorous hyper-stance reflects the indwelling nature of Nature, and the indwelling Spirit of medicine plants themselves. And what is the essence of this indwelling Nature and Spirit? Humility rather than hubris, interconnectedness rather than separation, and surrender rather than resistance.

I've come to this "Nexus" to share my experiences with sacred plants and with the sacred human beings who have for many centuries, cared for them, communed with them, and learned from them about the nature of being alive and how to sustain life on this planet; which is the very way the cosmos goes about being alive and sustaining its existence. I'm not claiming to know what's best for people or even claiming to be an advocate for the curanderos and elders I've met during my travels, but I am claiming that my experience is a valid experience and worth exploring without being an arrogant, cowboy-independent jerks about the invitation.

Also, I will not feel sorry for or pity those who refuse to honor what they do not understand. The plants, and not I, will deal with these half-brained psychonauts and humble them into realizing that they cannot expect to take advantage of sacred medicines without surrendering their ego-centric self-importance . . . and those who refuse to learn by getting slapped will get devastated . . . and those who remain in denial and refuse to live and demonstrate reverence before, during, and after tripping will end up in emergency rooms, psych-wards, or cemeteries. The wonderful thing about the universe is that there is perfect justice within the cosmos . . . everyone gets exactly what they deserve. In Lak'ech!

 

[Ajqij]

@Aiqij
Hard to talk when the other person misinterprets your words and takes answers to their questions as personal attacks.

Also what's up with that flame for some title/flair the forum software has automatically assigned to me. I've changed it, is it better now?
Since you changed yours, I thought you'd know more than flame others for some forum flair they might not even pay attention to

P.s. you can also put "20 years experience of traveling in Central and South America and of collaborations and journeys with shamans, elders, and curanderos over those years. " in the signature, this way you won't need to type it every time, could save you a bit of time and energy too.

@Exitwound, well, I feel in a similar way as you do, so perhaps take a look in the mirror, as reflections often reveal that what we see in others is where we are seeing from.

And, I don't understand your "title/flair" comment . . . provide more detail please? And thanks for the suggestion about my signature, but I'll stay with one I've choose rather than one that others feel would be more helpful. And as for the laughter emotes the two senior / mod members responded with . . . making fun of people is disrespectful and an indication of immaturity and arrogance . . . something I find unproductive and counter to the guiding values of this forum, "Learn, Share, Expand." Perhaps they can make a title suggestion of their own that is more in line with how people treat one another here? "Dismiss, Negate, Contract"

 

[Exitwound]

Well, have fun, I won't engage with you anymore

 

[Ajqij]

Well, have fun, I won't engage with you anymore

Not here for "fun," interested in dealving more deeply into the mystery and majesty of plant medicine . . . which sometimes is fun and other times isn't. And I honor your choice to not engage anymore as that is one thing we do agree on. Blessings on your path.

 

[Ruffles]

Going back to the original post and theme.

This heavily reminds me of LSD's run through the modern world since it's inception by Hoffmann. I am not certain about the morals of the story, but I would argue that it reached so many different people in different cultures that the first class team and their original expectations of a tool for psychoanalysis was too limited and biased.

Turns out that you can actually do many different things while on and thru LSD, from the most mundane and casual to emotional and sensory ecstasy and spiritual heights and intellectual flights of fancy. Just try "[insert verb] on LSD" and you will probably identify more positives than negatives, even if you don't agree with it.

DMT's recent popularity is likewise going around...

 

[Ajqij]

Going back to the original post and theme.

This heavily reminds me of LSD's run through the modern world since it's inception by Hoffmann. I am not certain about the morals of the story, but I would argue that it reached so many different people in different cultures that the first class team and their original expectations of a tool for psychoanalysis was too limited and biased.

Turns out that you can actually do many different things while on and thru LSD, from the most mundane and casual to emotional and sensory ecstasy and spiritual heights and intellectual flights of fancy. Just insert verb and add "on LSD" and you will probably identify more positives than negatives, even if you don't agree with it.

DMT's recent popularity is likewise going around...

Indeed, agree with you on your points @Ruffles . And let's not forget Psilocybin, high doses are repeated journeys evoke extraordinary spiritual and intellectual heights, plus the universal feminine presence who is totally up for positive dialogue is both inpiring and a model for how we humans can interact with one another if we open our minds and hearts.