DMT doesn't distort the mind?

[obliguhl]

Most of you propably know the famous speech about DMT by Terence McKenna, where he talks about DMT not affecting the mind. During my friends last experience, he's experienced a state of beeing with no color, no senses and the unability to think constantly. He tried to put things into words but utterly failed. Everytime he thought he would finally "think" , some kind of energy made him laugh with no end. In this moment, he experienced, the ridiciolous nature of our existence, how man made our concepts are and that culture is nothing more than the ...ridiciolous ambition to know what can not be known.

Retrospecticly, he finds this experience very much like a "mind distortion". It was almost like he could ride on the wave of his consciousness and feel it pour through his existence.

So is his concept of "mind distortion" different from McKennas or was he just wrong?

 

[WSaged]

I think I get what he meant, I feel like when I go to the DMT space, I am there, with my inner monologue pretty much the same.
Except for the occasional experience (usually sub-breakthrough) where something doesn't connect right & I spin out of control with no way to fight it or anything, until it wears off. (only happened to me twice, in over 2 years)
Although when that happens, I'm always aware enough to know it's only temporary & that I have to wait it out. But until it wears off, it feels like my thoughts are coming in huge, fast data-bursts, or running away with themselves.

On the other hand, Have you tried LSD?
One of the main effects of acid is that it literally changes the way you think! In a very strong way!!
For me, my mind goes into so much detail over everyday things, they all seem so wonderful & amazing, or horrible & intolerable.

The way I take in & process the information around me is fundamentally different with LSD...& most strong psychedelics.
But with DMT, I feel like I am there...like I am still me, just in this drastically different place!
Sometimes that place is so strange & alien, my normal thinking process shuts down due to utter amazement (or astonishment...'ala-McKenna:wink & I have to wait for it to wear off a little to actually process what happened. But in the same way it would if I was in a plane wreck...I think.


Anyway...did that make any sense?:d

WS

 

[obliguhl]

So you think that SWIM had a pretty unusual experience? He can't even imagine it to be different in his next trys. It was so weird. His internal dialoge seems to get reduced even on lower doses. It's just that the trance is so strong, he is fixed on his new state of mind?

And no, he hasn't tried LSD yet. Maybe he needed to have a totally ego dissolving experience before moving on.

It was like beeing at the root of everything and laughin about the little games we play with what we call "thought". It doesn't exist.

 

[Garulfo]

It was like beeing at the root of everything and laughin about the little games we play with what we call "thought". It doesn't exist

Do you really need DMT to laugh about that ?

His internal dialoge seems to get reduced even on lower doses

This also happened to SWIM a few times. Internal dialog was just impossible. But 'somewhere' SWIM knew it was due to the DMT and that it was temporary, therefore he enjoyed the experience. But it could have been seriously scaring if it would have happened during his first attempts.
I guess that this can be similar to a AVC event (see Jill Bolt book, a first person feedback from her after a AVC)

 

[Espiridion]

.
.
I am repeating only what I have learned here. That one excercise is to annihilate ourselves over and over again until we are left with that part of ourselves which is undestroyable. That one singular grain of conciousness that evades the culling. In fact, the skinniest sliver of a letter, I.


Purgation of the superfluous.


I am in the process of that very feat at this moment. I have the keys to heaven. Thank you, St.Peter.

Peace and light(from Sonora),

J
.
.

 

[SoCal]

.
.
I am repeating only what I have learned here. That one excercise is to annihilate ourselves over and over again until we are left with that part of ourselves which is undestroyable. That one singular grain of conciousness that evades the culling. In fact, the skinniest sliver of a letter, I.


Purgation of the superfluous.


I am in the process of that very feat at this moment. I have the keys to heaven. Thank you, St.Peter.

Peace and light(from Sonora),

J
.
.

haha good stuff! happy journeying! :d

 

[smokeydaze]

.
.
I am repeating only what I have learned here. That one excercise is to annihilate ourselves over and over again until we are left with that part of ourselves which is undestroyable. That one singular grain of conciousness that evades the culling. In fact, the skinniest sliver of a letter, I.


Purgation of the superfluous.


I am in the process of that very feat at this moment. I have the keys to heaven. Thank you, St.Peter.

Peace and light(from Sonora),

J
.
.

Yes! Nice, awesome, wicked, good job, see you soon. or later!!

 

[Ayawasqero]

Most of you propably know the famous speech about DMT by Terence McKenna, where he talks about DMT not affecting the mind. During my friends last experience, he's experienced a state of beeing with no color, no senses and the unability to think constantly. He tried to put things into words but utterly failed. Everytime he thought he would finally "think" , some kind of energy made him laugh with no end. In this moment, he experienced, the ridiciolous nature of our existence, how man made our concepts are and that culture is nothing more than the ...ridiciolous ambition to know what can not be known.

Retrospecticly, he finds this experience very much like a "mind distortion". It was almost like he could ride on the wave of his consciousness and feel it pour through his existence.

So is his concept of "mind distortion" different from McKennas or was he just wrong?

I read a story about one hippy back in the ´60´s, unable to lift up the hands after one DMT trip, so others have to took the pipe out of his mouth, :lol:.
I think it´s OK, DMT dissolves culture.

 

[polytrip]

I know exactly what you mean when you describe this state of mind. I don't know if you should call this a distortion of the mind. The experience contains a bit of 'truth', but it's probably more complicated. I think it's also not just the experience itself that's so utterly strange but how you 'experience the experience', if you know what i mean. One of the strangest things about DMT, the thing that someone who has no experience with it or any simmilar substance, will not be able to understand is this 'experiencing the experience' alteration. The whole concept of reality itself is suddenly being turned upside down. Not the whole 'hyperspace thing' itself is so strange, anybody could deal with strange concepts and just be very impressed. What makes DMT so...impossible is what everything you experience, at that moment means to you. How that 'meaning' is being affected.

I believe that what psychedelics do, is just changing the equilibrium a little, between the different parameters of the mind. The mind is such a complex structure that changing one thing a little, has such dramatic results. One of the things that's typically altered and usually dramatically increased by psychedelics, for instance, is the 'feedback-looping' system of the mind. The mind normally needs a little 'looping' in order to function properly, but when the looping increases so dramatically, it seems that everything is getting sucked into this loop, wich can lead to a feeling of disconnectedness. As if any meaning in life, is no more than just a loop, as if the loop is everything there is.

Part of this you could call a distortion, but it's not a distortion in the sense that reality is being mutulated. the distortion of reality is based on principles of wich reality is normally composed.

 

[cellux]

polytrip: well said.

If it were only visions, it wouldn't be too interesting. What makes it interesting is the way our perception/processing of the information "out there" changes in the psychedelic state. That it affects the meta-levels of our experience and existence. Like seeing with hitherto unknown "eyes". Or that experience of "visible language" that Terence McKenna was speaking about.

 

[obliguhl]

Wow polytrip!

What makes DMT so...impossible is what everything you experience, at that moment means to you. How that 'meaning' is being affected.

It means everything. THIS IS IT. That'S the very distinct feeling. THIS IS IT. And it doesn't matter what it is. It just is 'It'.

Swim wouldn't use the term "mind distortion" now. It can feel distorted if you're overwhelmed, but it seems like you can actually think, if you're not in a loop. The thing is, you can't control what you are beeing shown...this is what one could percieve as a distortion. Ridiciolous isn't it!

´My friend actually thinks, that one HAS tO THINK in sub breakthru doses to make best use of this psychedelic state of mind. To open yourself up for the lesson you have to learn.

 

[shoe]

On the other hand, Have you tried LSD?
One of the main effects of acid is that it literally changes the way you think! In a very strong way!!

does LSD do that every single time you get a good strong dose, or is it a one-shot thing; born with a normal brain, rewired by lsd and then you think in acid-mode forevermore?

 

[polytrip]

On the other hand, Have you tried LSD?
One of the main effects of acid is that it literally changes the way you think! In a very strong way!!

does LSD do that every single time you get a good strong dose, or is it a one-shot thing; born with a normal brain, rewired by lsd and then you think in acid-mode forevermore?

LSD doesn't cause brain damage. On the other hand the experience is unforgettable.
The tryptamine 'distortion' is comparable with a magnifying-glass; it changes the way you look at things, and once you've seen through the glass, you never look at what you saw with exactly the same eyes.

 

[obliguhl]

It seems to "differentiate" thoughts ....you can somehow pull the glue between thought connection patterns away to look at a thought in detail. You could say that it makes it easier to form more flexible thought patterns to solve problems. Or at least that's what happened to my friend. Most of this effect went away but a bit of it got carried over to the normal waking state.

 

[wake and bacon]

My friend actually thinks, that one HAS tO THINK in sub breakthru doses to make best use of this psychedelic state of mind. To open yourself up for the lesson you have to learn.

Absolutely.

In SWIM's sub-breakthrough experiences, he's learned (over time) how to channel ALL of his thoughts towards 'hyperspace' to provide himself with a very, very rewarding experience, even on doses half of what his normal breakthrough dose is. SWIM always closes his eyes immediately after exhaling (naturally), and fully submits himself to the experience. Once he gets a glimpse of 'the veil' he focuses all of his energy towards it, which usually leads him to absolute bliss, 'awareness' of energy&soul, and ready to learn anything and everything there is to be seen, felt, and heard out there. He is then able to effectively traverse wherever he ended up, quite similar to a breakthrough dose, just less 'intense'/all-encompassing.

SWIM believes this is very important to his own journeys, as it makes them so much more than just swirling colors, laughter, and smiles. Undoubtedly, he loves those journeys as well (how could you not?!), but the channeled sub-breakthrough journeys are far more rewarding.

Letting go is an incredibly important thing during the launch (DMT-101, right WS? ), but it doesn't necessarily mean to not think. It means more so to let go of any preconceived notions, any thoughts you have about the spice and where it takes you, and any thoughts that can distract you when you get struck by that 'noetic lightning'. It is a basic principle that allows this channeling to work. For SWIM, at least. :d