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DMT from Bufotenin?

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Pssilocibinnn

Pssilocibinnn

Rising Star
hello!! :p :p
i'm new in all this things...
i discuss with a friend if is possible reduce dmt from 5-ho-dmt...
my friend found this idea in another forum ..:

Free Base DMT from Bufotenine via Vitamin C?
I was chatting on-line with several chemists last weekend about using calcium hydroxide to create 5-O-DMT from 5-HO-DMT (bufotenine). They all agree that about this part. However, one chemist said “If you take 5-O-DMT and dissolve it in concentrated ascorbic acid it will become DMT”. So this is what he says happens essentially:

Proposal A - Free Base DMT from Bufotenine via Vitamin C (the antioxidant known as ascorbic acid)

Step A1 - free base 5-HO-DMT + calcium hydroxide = calcium 5-O-DMT
Step A2 - calcium 5-O-DMT + ascorbic acid = DMT ascorbate + calcium ascorbate
Step A3 - DMT ascorbate + calcium hydroxide = free base DMT + calcium ascorbate

They all agreed about step A1, citing the “phenol to phenoxide” reaction with strong bases. This makes sense since 5-HO-DMT is a phenolic compound. We can argue this also, if any one likes. They all agreed about step A3 also.

Now what I really want to talk about is step A2. The chemists all argued about step A2.

One of the chemists said the oxygen bond at the 5 position is too strong for the antioxidant property of ascorbic acid to remove it. He said this would happen:

Proposal B

Step B1 - free base 5-HO-DMT + calcium hydroxide = calcium 5-O-DMT
Step B2 - calcium 5-O-DMT + ascorbic acid = 5-O-DMT ascorbate + calcium ascorbate
Step B3 - 5-O-DMT ascorbate + calcium hydroxide = calcium 5-O-DMT + calcium ascorbate

The others argued about step B2, stating the reversal of the “phenol to phenoxide” reaction would take place. Basically saying that as soon as the 5-O-DMT is exposed to the acid it becomes free base again and then 5-O-DMT becomes 5-HO-DMT and forms a salt with the acid like this:

Proposal C

Step C1 - free base 5-HO-DMT + calcium hydroxide = calcium 5-O-DMT
Step C2 - calcium 5-O-DMT + ascorbic acid = 5-HO-DMT ascorbate + calcium ascorbate
Step C3 - 5-HO-DMT ascorbate + calcium hydroxide = calcium 5-O-DMT + calcium ascorbate

If either Proposal B or Proposal C happens, then this is a pretty uninteresting reaction.

But if Proposal A actually happens, then this is exciting news isn’t it?

Anadenanthera colubrina seeds contain up to 12% (actually I heard some people claim 20% with the right extraction tech) bufotenine. So if Proposal A happens, then Anadenanthera colubrina could be the best natural source for DMT using a simple reaction.

The one chemist I was chatting with on-line insisting that “Proposal A” happens claims to have done it and bioassayed it.

Is he full of crap?

Or is he the genius of the group?

Has anyone else done “Proposal A” before?

Does this actually work?
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for my.. is very interesting...😉

love for this wonderful forum!!
 
Im interested in all this tryptamine chemistry and convertions, so indeed lets see what our experts say :D but .... I would be even happier if someone found the other way around: a way to make pure bufotenine from dmt, since the later is usually more abundant and easier to extract :)
 
what was interesting to me was that 5-ho-dmt was converted to 5-o-dmt with calcium hydroxide....whats interesting about that is...isnt that what some teks call for to freebase bufotenine? what is 5-o-dmt?
 
There is NO way that absorbic acid will be able to reduce a phenolic alcohol.
The only conditions that could would be able to do such things are LAH, H2 on palladium or electrolysis.

It is likely he bio-assayed bufotenine and thought it was DMT. This rxn is not possible.

5-MEO could be made from B via a single step. Using Dimethylsulfate to methylate the phenolic oxygen.
Although this is a dangerous reagent and not easily obtained w/o a lab. Because of the amine group this can NOT be methylated using conditions involving methyl iodide as you will end up with the tertiary amine. You could then remove the methyl but this would add another step and decrease yield.
Another possibility would be to put different alkyl chains on the oxygen (Shulgin has been working on this although not by starting with B) as the lone pair of electrons on the amine will be unable to attack the positively charged carbon of the alkyl halide due to steric hinderance. .


SWIM is interested in the calcium B. SWIM's friend has tried this RXN and has yet to bio-assay but has a diff looking material (reddish) from starting.

Method:
Dissolve 10mg of B and 30mg Ca(OH)2 and mix in a enough water to form a paste. Gently add a small amount of heat and let sit at room temp and cool back to RT for 30 minutes. Evaporate water with a hair drier. Then scrap up powder and extract 3X10mL acetone. Filter and evaporate acetone to collect the product. The reddish oil solidifies after 2 minutes, scrap to collect.
 
Interesting SWIM will tell her freind. It is very likely that this compound is calcium bufotenine.

Is regular B smoked very visual for SWIM?
SWIM has had significant visuals however no where near the intensity or complexity of those from DMT. Ron claims to have very strong visuals however many others do not report such effects.
Is there something SWIY would compare them to?
 
Red...isn’t that usually a sign of oxidation?

SWIM tried making calcium bufotenate by mixing calcium and bufotenine for 24 hours in a mix of IPA and water. He dried it and extracted it with acetone and filtered it, which removed the calcium. He then dried the acetone. The end result was not smokable. Something happened to it for sure. It tasted soapy and didn’t look the same. The color changed. If I recall correctly it was reddish brown colored.

SWIM believes dehydrobufotenine was the result of this, and not calcium bufotenate. Alexander Shulgin believes bufotenine eventually breaks down into dehydrobufotenine when subject to alkaline environments for extended periods of time.

SWIM never tried the end results orally or sublingually. He has a feeling it will be very active by those routes.
 
its interesting because the redish stuff that SWIM smoked gave him the best most dmt like visuals...longer lasting and less intense
 
Jorkest said:
SWIM has actually smoked that redish stuff..and it was the most active/visual bufo hes ever tried
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SWIM found that doing the calcium hydroxide reaction for less than 1 hour produces an end product that is smokable, but after mixing for 24 hours it's not smokable.

How was it made? Was it left to mix with calcium hydroxide for 24 hours, or just a short time like what bufoman mentioned? Was acetone also involved?

Maybe the acetone is reacting with it? Acetone is slightly acidic and is known to be quite reactive.

What if you are getting 5-AcO-DMT from this? Is that even possible?

Think about it, you mix concentrated calcium hydroxide with it, and because bufotenine is phenolic the calcium should theoretically form a salt with the bufotenine, making something like Ca+ -5-O-DMT, or “calcium bufotenate”. Then after it dries, it’s no longer alkaline, and I don’t think Ca + -5-O-DMT will exist out of solution, so it comes apart and forms -5-O-DMT, which would become 5-HO-DMT if exposed to water, so the outcome would just be bufotenine again if ingested. But if you extracted the -5-O-DMT with acetone, it might react with the acetone forming something like 5-AcO-DMT. Is that even remotely possible?
 
SWIM cant remember the details of how it was made..but it was one of his earliest attempts at bufotenine..it was the time i posted about trying it with mescaline and having a wonderful time...
 
Jorkest, SWIM has on occasion made something with calcium hydroxide, bufotenine, IPA, water, and acetone, that was more visual than bufotenine and DMT combined. But SWIM can't consistently duplicate the tests. SWIM still has the alkaloid in a vial. He's compared it to pure bufotenine. The effects are very different. It was however made from bufotenine. SWIM doesn't know what it is. It’s about 1/2 the potency of bufotenine. It tastes different. It’s much more pleasant than any other psychedelic SWIM has tried, but unfortunately SWIM can’t make it again. He's tried many times and can't get it right anymore and doesn't know why. He doesn’t know exactly how to make it. It has something to do with mixing bufotenine with calcium hydroxide, IPA and water for a certain amount of time, then drying, then extracting with acetone. Sometimes, the end result is not smokable. Sometimes the end result is just bufotenine. Sometimes the end result is the most amazing psychedelic compound SWIM has ever tried.

I don’t talk about this much because SWIM cannot easily duplicate the reaction. It’s very puzzling. He has his lab notes and everything and has tried many times, and it fails most of the time. But sometimes it works, and when it does, it is the most amazing psychedelic there is. It’s more visual than DMT, more visual then bufotenine, and has NO MIND FUCK at all, and no side effects. It’s also orally active (but causes nausea). Anyway, I don’t know what to call it. I don’t think it’s calcium bufotenate. I think it’s 5-AcO-DMT, and that the reaction is just very difficult to get right. Timing seems to be critical. If not enough time is used for the reaction, nothing happens, if too much time is given, the end result is not smokable.
 
It would be really cool if other SWIMs can investigate this.

SWIM basically just mixed bufotenine (it was unfortunately impure and extracted from A. colubrina) with equal amounts of calcium hydroxide. He used water and IPA (50:50 mix of the two) to mix the two in. He mixed for 1 hour once and it worked. Another time it failed after mixing for 1 hour and needed 2 hours. Another time it needed 3 hours. Anyway, after mixing, it was diluted to 75% IPA and the calcium was filtered out. It was then dried with a fan. Then dissolved in acetone, and filtered. The acetone was then evaporated to give the final product. Sometimes it was just bufotenine, other times it was inactive when smoked, other times it was the most amazing psychedelic there is. SWIM tried doing the exact same set of steps and it would sometimes work and sometimes fail. If mixed for too long it would form something that was not smokable. You can consistently make the non-smokable alkaloid or whatever it is by letting it mix for 24 hours, but to get the amazing unknown psychedelic compound, the mixing time had to be just right. SWIM gave up on it after a while because he could never get consistent results.

If someone could figure out a way to make the unknown compound 100% of the time that would be a great leap forward in psychedelic chemistry. It is truly the most amazing psychedelic SWIM has ever tried. He doesn’t talk about it much because, it’s hard to make it. Sure the chemicals involved are easy to get, and there’s nothing difficult in the process, but how to make it always work is the hard part. It’s so unpredictable and I don’t know why.
 
that is so interesting...because it was one of the first extraction teks he tried to make bufotenine..and he didnt use IPA and is pretty sure he used calcium hydroxide..and acetone...but he cant remember for the life of him how he got it to work...he also smoked just a tiny amount while on some mescaline..not sure if this was an extract or just from eating the chips from achuma(grossss)

anyway the tiny amount that he smoked was VERY visual and dmt like..but with no side effects to speak of...just euphoria and cool visuals...and this was from a tiny crumb...a higher dose would have been fantastic

SWIM is most certainly going to work on this....he thought it was just impure bufo...and didnt know anybody else had even heard of it...this is sweet...let me loook for my old post

he thought THAT was bufotenine...and let me see if i can find the report...but he was unable to make it again...maybe the report he wrote on here might describe how he did it...he did use acetone...and pretty sure he used calcium hydroxide...but it could have been sodium carbonate..but is not entirely sure

he also remembers that he was working with some fairly bunk seeds at the time..so the amount that he had was very small...
 
ok here...i found my old posts

anyway..his mind was very active..and he could feel this interesting connectedness..his mind would be slightly scattered..but he was still able to follow his thoughts fully...the effects probably lasted at least 12 hours...and at the end he smoked some bufotenine..which boosted the visuals..and changed them slightly..it was extremely nice though..because the amount of bufotenine that he had to smoke was very small..but it worked great..
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yes i agree with that..SWIM would also like to figure out how to extract it...SWIM liked eating the dried cactus chips..he carved them very thoroughly and only had the nice green parts..he only had to eat 3.5 grams to get strong effects for the whole day..and into the night...and then at night..he smoked a low dose of bufotenine(impure) and still got amazing visuals from it...so SWIM is interested in doing mescaline again and smoking bufo...the experience was VERY nice

this was T. bridgesii he ate BTW..he may try carving up a few more and trying an extraction from that...

have you been using the whole cactus?
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SWIMs first good bufo experience was also on mescaline from T. bridgesii..and he did not have to smoke too much bufo to get very nice bufo visuals..even perhaps a bit nicer than plain bufo..im thinking that mushrooms, lsd, mescaline, and possibly a few others will have a nice synergistic effect
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69ron posted
SWIM tried bufotenine with mescaline and DID NOT LIKE IT AT ALL. For SWIM it ruined the mescaline visuals and the mescaline ruined with bufotenine visuals. They seemed to enhance each others side effects and destroy each other's positive effects. At least that’s how it went for SWIM.

So far the best combinations SWIM has used with bufotenine have been Ginkgo biloba (the best), and THH (very nice).

I imagine that Ginkgo biloba would also go very well with LSA. THH might also, but SWIM hasn’t tried that yet.
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so when SWIM was on the achuma he was testing this reddish waxy stuff that he thought was just impure bufotenine...and he said that it was even better than plain bufo..maybe this is the mystery alkaloid that has been stumbled upon accidentally...it would be AWESOME if we could figure out how to duplicate the reaction
 
thanks !!
can swim reduce dmt from bufotenin? exist a method?
swim have a lot of cebil seeds... swim live in north of argentina and Anadenanthera Colubrina is in everywhere...
thanks!
and sorry for my bad english,,, is so bad..
:) :) :) :) :)
 
I highly doubt that 4-aco-dmt is the end product. The effects would last 4-6 hours....and I'm not sure it is even smokable. Next time someone has a bit on hand I would be curious to see if vaporized 4-aco-dmt is even active.
 
5-AcO-DMT, not 4-AcO-DMT. But even 5-AcO-DMT is unlikely.

Many seem to say the calcium hydroxide does something to change the effects of bufotenine, but no one seems to agree on what it does exactly to the bufotenine. At any rate, no one knows what it is that the calcium creates and it seems all threads dealing with this subject end up going no where.
 
Pssilocibinnn said:
thanks !!
can swim reduce dmt from bufotenin? exist a method?
swim have a lot of cebil seeds... swim live in north of argentina and Anadenanthera Colubrina is in everywhere...
thanks!
and sorry for my bad english,,, is so bad..
:) :) :) :) :)
Click to expand...

I recommend experimenting with the effects of calcium hydroxide on bufotenine. There's a substance that can be created from it if everything is mixed just right. The substance is much better than DMT and all other psychedelics out there. The trip lasts 3 hours, is very visual, and extremely euphoric, quite different from bufotenine, more like DMT, but much better.

I’m surprised more people aren’t looking into this. I believe the people on this forum would greatly benefit by making a tech that does this conversion and works 100% of the time. The end result is so much better than DMT and completely unlike bufotenine. Anyway, that’s SWIM’s take on it.
 
The OP on this thread uses a very different method to get that mysterious compound. Might be more reliable if the results are the same as with the calcium hydroxide.
 
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