DMT highly caustic when vaped - help

[Jega]

Hi,

A friend has some DMT he extracted and it tastes highly caustic to the point where your instinct is to immediately let it out on inhaling. Having taken a small sub-breakthrough dose (not even enough for much visuals) half an hour ago my mouth still feels burnt. Any ideas?

-This isn't over-sensitivity- a friend, seasoned smoker of many things had the same issue.
-I don't think it's smoking technique- tried several methods which haven't caused a problem in the past
-This is a straight to base extraction, previously he used Gordo
-Don't see how it could be lye contamination as this is twice re-crystalised, care taken not to suck up aqueous layer, plus I'm told lye doesn't vapourise at these temperatures
-It's definitely a caustic thing rather than a temperature thing

Any ideas?

 

[King Tryptamine]

Freebase N,N-DMT is most definitly a caustic compound as well as most alkaloids which are naturally weak bases. Think of the nicotine found in e-cigs. If you've ever hit a liquid containing 20mg nicotine you'll notice it also feels quite caustic to the oral/esophageal lining giving you that 'throat scratch' so to speak. Another alkaloid example would be morphine, if you've ever licked the sap oozing out of a poppy head you'll notice the distinct caustic or corrosive effect it has on the place of contact.

In summation this caustic effect you speak of when talking about N,N-DMT is just a common property that most alkaloids have, again being weak bases giving them that slightly corrosive property. However some such as cocaine also have local anesthetic/other properties making it harder to notice that burning sensation that alkaloids tend to induce.

P.S. If you've ever vaporized cannabis you'll find that unlike nicotine or N,N-DMT, apart from that resinous sticky throat feel, there's no corrosive feel to the vapor since cannabinoids are not nitrogenous basic organic compounds (alkaloids).

 

[endlessness]

-I don't think it's smoking technique- tried several methods which haven't caused a problem in the past

What technique are you using?

Combustion of DMT generates potentially irritating/toxic compounds, it is known to be very harsh to the throat and lungs.

It is very very different when you can properly vaporize DMT using convection-based vaporization methods.

 

[Jega]

Thanks for the input King Tryp- I am aware that freebase DMT is somewhat caustic, but as I say, I've vaped it with no problems or not the slightest burn in the past.

This batch burns badly, even for an experienced smoker, to the point where you would be nuts to inhale a decent hit let alone hold it in. I just can't figure out what could have caused it given the care he took in extraction/re-x.

 

[endlessness]

DMT is DMT, so unless there are impurities, there is no reason why this batch should feel worse than others. If its recrystallized generally shouldnt be an issue with lye there, but if you want to totally eliminate this possibility, you can redissolve and do a sodium carb wash, and recrystallize.

Also, is the solvent you used clean, did you do an evap test on it?

 

[Jega]

-I don't think it's smoking technique- tried several methods which haven't caused a problem in the past

What technique are you using?

Combustion of DMT generates potentially irritating/toxic compounds, it is known to be very harsh to the throat and lungs.

It is very very different when you can properly vaporize DMT using convection-based vaporization methods.

Thanks for the input. I've tried both the Saionara TAF and the Storz and Bickel Mighty- the latter of which is very repeatable and reliable. On these same setting with another batch you could hardly tell you were inhaling anything other than air.

The issue is not burning the DMT- I know that taste. This is a caustic burning but there is no burnt DMT smell- and I know the settings I use on the Mighty cause no perceptable burning.

It's a mystery to me. I am going to try a carb wash- otherwise this stuff is useless to me.

 

[endlessness]

Im not familiar with the saionara TAF but the S&B Mighty should def be good.

Is it possible your solvent is not clean-evapping and leaves some nasty stuff behind? Do an evap test if you havent yet. Otherwise yeah, do a sodium carb wash.

Did other people try from same batch? Is it possible your lungs/throat is just sensitive due to unrelated reasons and even though it is clean you feel as harsh? Do you have another batch to compare one after the other?

 

[Jega]

Thanks again endlessness.

Solvent evap- it leaves the slightest of slight reside on a slide but he convinced himself this is just an effect of the solvent creating patterns in pre-existing residue on the slide. It's almost impossible to get a slide truly clean... there is absolutely no solvent smell to the final product, even when left in a tightly sealed container for a day or two.

Did someone else try it? YES- a seasoned smoker of many things although not of DMT. He had to let the smoke out immediately as it burned - caustic not heat.

Anyway he did the carb wash and the results are night and day. Massive difference, very smooth now- and this using the same solvent as for his previous re-x's.

The question now is why was it so bad previously after two re-x's? He's very careful with his process. A lot of people are using STB with apparently zero problem.

 

[sbios]

I recently decided to go for a new mod setup from the sai TAF I have. I made the mistake using the same TC temperature for the new setup where the direct heating is way faster than Sai TAF's ceramic donut heating unit. So the heating is much slower with Sai TAF and much more air flow to cool down the smoke. He probably should dial down the Temp setting way down.

 

[Jega]

I recently decided to go for a new mod setup from the sai TAF I have. I made the mistake using the same TC temperature for the new setup where the direct heating is way faster than Sai TAF's ceramic donut heating unit. So the heating is much slower with Sai TAF and much more air flow to cool down the smoke. He probably should dial down the Temp setting way down.

Thanks for pitching in, however as stated, this is not overheating the spice or burning it. It is caustic.

What's the new mod you went for, out of interest? How's it compare with the Sai?

 

[Tony6Strings]

I've noticed DMT to be caustic. This oftentimes applies to the vapor. It will burn/irritate my lips and mouth when I vape. To remedy, I eat a piece of sour candy (sour punch twist, sour spaghetti, anything with sour powder on it). Rub the powder on my lips. It does the trick, nixes the irritation and is downright delicious after a cruise through hyperspace. Or anytime really. I've also noticed DMT can irritate the mouth when eaten.

 

[DeeMenTalist]

This oftentimes applies to the vapor. It will burn/irritate my lips and mouth when I vape.

In my experience this happened only when dmt burnt with improper vape technique. NOTHING like this when I use GVG or some one hitter glass pipe.

 

[Tony6Strings]

This oftentimes applies to the vapor. It will burn/irritate my lips and mouth when I vape.

In my experience this happened only when dmt burnt with improper vape technique. NOTHING like this when I use GVG or some one hitter glass pipe.

A gvg is what I use. Not talking about burned DMT that's a whole different thing.

 

[Tony6Strings]

I think what was happening in my situation, I had a bunch of recrystallized spice reside in the pipe. When I would smoalk it would heat up and melt the reside, and I would suck up some of the liquified DMT onto lips and mouth. Come to think of it, since I cleaned my pipe I have not noticed any burning lips or mouth. Not until the other night that is, when I ate some DMT.

 

[DeeMenTalist]

Ah ok. Then no idea whats wrong with your dmt guys. Never had problems like this. As previously suggested - check solvent, carb wash your spice and re-x more thoroughly.

 

[null24]

I've noticed DMT to be caustic. This oftentimes applies to the vapor. It will burn/irritate my lips and mouth when I vape. To remedy, I eat a piece of sour candy (sour punch twist, sour spaghetti, anything with sour powder on it). Rub the powder on my lips. It does the trick, nixes the irritation and is downright delicious after a cruise through hyperspace. Or anytime really. I've also noticed DMT can irritate the mouth when eaten.

Kinda like sucking limes when eating Thai food, eh?

Maybe keep a few slices handy when you trip?:lol:

 

[sbios]

I recently decided to go for a new mod setup from the sai TAF I have. I made the mistake using the same TC temperature for the new setup where the direct heating is way faster than Sai TAF's ceramic donut heating unit. So the heating is much slower with Sai TAF and much more air flow to cool down the smoke. He probably should dial down the Temp setting way down.

Thanks for pitching in, however as stated, this is not overheating the spice or burning it. It is caustic.

What's the new mod you went for, out of interest? How's it compare with the Sai?

For the new setup I use eleaf TC mod 40w with mesh wire RDA. The Sai is easier to load and ideal for moving around/places. The mesh RDA heats up ways faster and is not as forgiving as Sai TAF titanium bucket's donut heating underneath which heats up at slower rate.

 

[Jega]

For the new setup I use eleaf TC mod 40w with mesh wire RDA. The Sai is easier to load and ideal for moving around/places. The mesh RDA heats up ways faster and is not as forgiving as Sai TAF titanium bucket's donut heating underneath which heats up at slower rate.

Thanks. Given the disadvantages, presumably you find the mesh RDA superior in some respect?

 

[Asher7]

I just noticed this thread. With the irritation you guys got did any of it involve numbing of your lips or tongue?

This is twice now I’ve read that a sodium carb wash fixes whatever problem is going on here. At the chance of taking ridicule, is there any chance that naphtha doesn’t keep out traces of lye as well as is generally thought? That’s the only thing I can think of. So far all the reports I’ve read of this is with naphtha, not other solvents so I can’t compare if it is strictly naphtha or if it’s also happening with others. Maybe STB is just so lye rich that some pushes through, or maybe slight unnoticeable amounts get vaccumed in when pulling the naphtha layer off the sludge.

Thanks again endlessness.

Solvent evap- it leaves the slightest of slight reside on a slide but he convinced himself this is just an effect of the solvent creating patterns in pre-existing residue on the slide. It's almost impossible to get a slide truly clean... there is absolutely no solvent smell to the final product, even when left in a tightly sealed container for a day or two.

Did someone else try it? YES- a seasoned smoker of many things although not of DMT. He had to let the smoke out immediately as it burned - caustic not heat.

Anyway he did the carb wash and the results are night and day. Massive difference, very smooth now- and this using the same solvent as for his previous re-x's.

The question now is why was it so bad previously after two re-x's? He's very careful with his process. A lot of people are using STB with apparently zero problem.