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DMT is not diluting in PG

Migrated topic.
M

mamont

Rising Star
Hello dear community,

never had an issue with diluting my spice in PG/VG 50/50 mix or pure PG using a microwave for 5 seconds and it's always perfect.
Had different spices, from white to yellow. Always mixing 1g of spice and 2g of liquid for years.
Today I got new spice, slightly yellowish and I can't dilute it at all.
1. try was to dilute it in 50/50 it become very, very thick. I've filled one cartridge, the coil burned after the first hit (I felt the effect, but It can not be vaped, it's to thick)

2. try I mixed 0,5g spice with 1ml pure PG and got a consistency like gel.

What can it be, does anyone hat issues like that?

Thanks for your help.
 
Loveall said:
It could simply be impure dmt. Did you extract it yourself?
Click to expand...

No I don't but it looks very pure. Is there a possibility to clean it ?
I know it from other "spices" that you can clean them with acetone for example.
 
That's weird. If the PG is pure, and the spice is freebase, it should dissolve with no issues. Afaik PG/VG mixes do tend to be thicker, but i don't see why it would behave differently to your previous mixes with the same ratios. It sounds to me like there's something different about your new DMT.

Maybe you have a salt form, such as fumarate. Fumarate does look quite similar and can be yellowish.

Trying to dissolve it in (dry!) acetone isn't a bad idea in my opinion.

If it doesn't want to dissolve at all (at room temp), it is not freebase. In this case, if you're lucky some impurities will dissolve in the acetone and your DMT salt has better purity afterwards. You can then convert it to freebase if you want, or use it for pharmahuasca.

If it does dissolve easily, it is probably freebase, and any bits that won't dissolve are impurities you can leave behind. In this case, you can simply evaporate the acetone to get back your solid freebase.

Btw, this sort of thing is a major reason why we encourage everyone to extract their own. That way, you know what you have, and troubleshooting is easier if at all necessary.
 
mamont said:
Sakkadelic said:
Perhaps base contamination?

In this thread bIRD_ noticed some polymer forming when basifying a solution containing PG/VG

This could explain the thick/gel consistency you got
Click to expand...


Do you mean that the PG/VG mix is contaminated?
I'm using the same bottle at least for 2 years now, last dilution I made was 2 weeks ago and everything was perfect.
Click to expand...
No, I meant the DMT is contaminated. It sounds like DMT is the only variable in your process so it's likely to be the culprit
 
Sakkadelic said:
mamont said:
Sakkadelic said:
Perhaps base contamination?

In this thread bIRD_ noticed some polymer forming when basifying a solution containing PG/VG

This could explain the thick/gel consistency you got
Click to expand...


Do you mean that the PG/VG mix is contaminated?
I'm using the same bottle at least for 2 years now, last dilution I made was 2 weeks ago and everything was perfect.
Click to expand...
No, I meant the DMT is contaminated. It sounds like DMT is the only variable in your process so it's likely to be the culprit
Click to expand...
Agreed. OP, you should learn how to extract and clean it (e.g. naphtha re-x). I would not have tried to vape the viscous mix you got for safety reasons. Stay safe and be well.
 
Homo Trypens said:
That's weird. If the PG is pure, and the spice is freebase, it should dissolve with no issues. Afaik PG/VG mixes do tend to be thicker, but i don't see why it would behave differently to your previous mixes with the same ratios. It sounds to me like there's something different about your new DMT.

Maybe you have a salt form, such as fumarate. Fumarate does look quite similar and can be yellowish.

Trying to dissolve it in (dry!) acetone isn't a bad idea in my opinion.

If it doesn't want to dissolve at all (at room temp), it is not freebase. In this case, if you're lucky some impurities will dissolve in the acetone and your DMT salt has better purity afterwards. You can then convert it to freebase if you want, or use it for pharmahuasca.

If it does dissolve easily, it is probably freebase, and any bits that won't dissolve are impurities you can leave behind. In this case, you can simply evaporate the acetone to get back your solid freebase.

Btw, this sort of thing is a major reason why we encourage everyone to extract their own. That way, you know what you have, and troubleshooting is easier if at all necessary.
Click to expand...

Thank you very much for your answer.
I tried to dissolve it and it dissolved easily. How to get out the impurities ? Should the acetone evaporate at room temperature or how to do it best ?

I tried to understand biRD_ thread but didn't really understand how to go back from e-juice fo FB.
 
Loveall said:
Sakkadelic said:
mamont said:
Sakkadelic said:
Perhaps base contamination?

In this thread bIRD_ noticed some polymer forming when basifying a solution containing PG/VG

This could explain the thick/gel consistency you got
Click to expand...


Do you mean that the PG/VG mix is contaminated?
I'm using the same bottle at least for 2 years now, last dilution I made was 2 weeks ago and everything was perfect.
Click to expand...
No, I meant the DMT is contaminated. It sounds like DMT is the only variable in your process so it's likely to be the culprit
Click to expand...
Agreed. OP, you should learn how to extract and clean it (e.g. naphtha re-x). I would not have tried to vape the viscous mix you got for safety reasons. Stay safe and be well.
Click to expand...

In my conditions where I am and live etc. It's impossible for me to extract on my own. To get MHRB is nearly impossible too..
 
mamont said:
Thank you very much for your answer.
I tried to dissolve it and it dissolved easily. How to get out the impurities ? Should the acetone evaporate at room temperature or how to do it best ?

I tried to understand biRD_ thread but didn't really understand how to go back from e-juice fo FB.
Click to expand...

If the freebase dissolved in acetone easily, you should have freebase, or at least not DMT fumarate. If everything dissolved, that means any impurities present are also soluble in acetone. I think lye and sodium carbonate are not soluble in acetone, so if i'm not mistaken that would rule out base contamination.

The bad news is that if both the DMT and the impurities (assuming there are any) are soluble, evaporating the acetone doesn't achieve separation. You can evaporate the acetone to get back the exact same thing you put in. It should evap at room temp with time, but you can put it on something warm to speed things up a bit. NO FLAMES.

Or you can do something different that will separate most non-alkaloid impurities. You dissolve some fumaric acid (other acids should work but i'm not sure which ones - you want one that's soluble in acetone but produces a DMT salt that is insoluble in acetone) in a small amount of acetone, and then add the acidic acetone to the dmt containing acetone. After a few hours, there should be a DMT salt powder in the bottom (DMT fumarate if you used fumaric). The impurities should stay in the acetone. So then you'd filter out your DMT salt, and wash it with a bit of fresh cold acetone. You can then either use the salt for oral consumption (don't smoke salts!), or convert it back to freebase eg. using one of the ways described here.

If your impurity is an alkaloid such as NMT, this won't achieve separation either. I don't know if and how you could separate NMT from DMT if that turns out to be the case.
 
Homo Trypens said:
mamont said:
Thank you very much for your answer.
I tried to dissolve it and it dissolved easily. How to get out the impurities ? Should the acetone evaporate at room temperature or how to do it best ?

I tried to understand biRD_ thread but didn't really understand how to go back from e-juice fo FB.
Click to expand...

If the freebase dissolved in acetone easily, you should have freebase, or at least not DMT fumarate. If everything dissolved, that means any impurities present are also soluble in acetone. I think lye and sodium carbonate are not soluble in acetone, so if i'm not mistaken that would rule out base contamination.

The bad news is that if both the DMT and the impurities (assuming there are any) are soluble, evaporating the acetone doesn't achieve separation. You can evaporate the acetone to get back the exact same thing you put in. It should evap at room temp with time, but you can put it on something warm to speed things up a bit. NO FLAMES.

Or you can do something different that will separate most non-alkaloid impurities. You dissolve some fumaric acid (other acids should work but i'm not sure which ones - you want one that's soluble in acetone but produces a DMT salt that is insoluble in acetone) in a small amount of acetone, and then add the acidic acetone to the dmt containing acetone. After a few hours, there should be a DMT salt powder in the bottom (DMT fumarate if you used fumaric). The impurities should stay in the acetone. So then you'd filter out your DMT salt, and wash it with a bit of fresh cold acetone. You can then either use the salt for oral consumption (don't smoke salts!), or convert it back to freebase eg. using one of the ways described here.

If your impurity is an alkaloid such as NMT, this won't achieve separation either. I don't know if and how you could separate NMT from DMT if that turns out to be the case.
Click to expand...


I disolved 0,3g and was left with yellowish, fatty something and it was about 0,05-0,07g
What could it be? And how can I clean it?
 
Oh i just see that i mistyped :) i meant "if the powder dissolved easily".

Usually my guess would be plant fats, but i think they would dissolve in acetone too? So, i have no idea.

If you had a residue, that means the dmt in the acetone is already cleaner than it was. If you evaporate the acetone now, you'll have at least partly cleaned your DMT.
 
Homo Trypens said:
Oh i just see that i mistyped :) i meant "if the powder dissolved easily".

Usually my guess would be plant fats, but i think they would dissolve in acetone too? So, i have no idea.

If you had a residue, that means the dmt in the acetone is already cleaner than it was. If you evaporate the acetone now, you'll have at least partly cleaned your DMT.
Click to expand...


May be I misunderstood something. After the acetone evaporated I was left with this fatty, yellowish residue.
How do I get the spice out of it?
Can I recrystallise the spice ?
 
Homo Trypens said:
Wait, how do you end up with less product if it all dissolved and then you evaporated the solvent? Seems i misunderstood. I thought 0.3g dissolved near completely, with only 0.05-0.07g undissolved.
Click to expand...
This latter part was my conclusion also, except I found the statement ambiguous. So, mamont - was there any residue remaining after you had dissolved your material in acetone? What happened to the other ca. 0.24g of material? Are your scales maybe unacceptably inaccurate?

It would be helpful if you were to describe the cleanup process in full detail from start to finish as well.
 
downwardsfromzero said:
Homo Trypens said:
Wait, how do you end up with less product if it all dissolved and then you evaporated the solvent? Seems i misunderstood. I thought 0.3g dissolved near completely, with only 0.05-0.07g undissolved.
Click to expand...
This latter part was my conclusion also, except I found the statement ambiguous. So, mamont - was there any residue remaining after you had dissolved your material in acetone? What happened to the other ca. 0.24g of material? Are your scales maybe unacceptably inaccurate?

It would be helpful if you were to describe the cleanup process in full detail from start to finish as well.
Click to expand...


With my scale is everything fine, rechecked.

I took 0,3g of spice and maybe 4ml of acetone.
Everything dissolved may be during 1 minute. After the acetone evaporated I was left with yellowish, fatty something.
I thought it's the residue and the spice evaporated with acetone...
And now as I understand, the residue was the spice, right? But why it was so fatty ?
 
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