DMT Piezoluminescence - Any Observerations?

[SnozzleBerry]

I was just watching an interview with Nick Sand where he stated that pure DMT exhibits piezoluminescence. Sure enough, wikipedia states:

In the folk-literature surrounding psychedelic production, DMT, 5-MeO-DMT, and LSD have been reported to exhibit piezoluminescence. As specifically noted in the book Acid Dreams, it is stated that Augustus Owsley Stansley III, one of the most prolific producers of LSD in the 1960s, observed piezoluminescence in the compound's purest form,[5] which observation is confirmed by Alexander Shulgin: "A totally pure salt, when dry and when shaken in the dark, will emit small flashes of white light."

Has anyone observed this?

 

[anrchy]

OK, so I just attempted it. Imagine anrchy standing in a cramped closed with zero light, slamming and shaking a vial of DMT as hard as he can. I mixed all my DMT together the other day so i no longer have any white pure product unmixed. I believe in order for this to work you must have atleast a very pure if not almost completely pure product.

Someone want to try with some white funfest? I'm sure someone in here has glass crystals of DMT.

 

[DansMaTete]

I want a light made of it 8)

I have to start new extaction and improve my re-x

 

[arcologist]

I'll try it with my jar of very pure fumarate when I get home. I don't have any freebase ready so hopefully that will do.

Edit: No luck… It might work to maybe crush the DMT (i.e. mortar and pestle), shaking doesn't seem to do it.

 

[Nathanial.Dread]

I'll try it with my jar of very pure fumarate when I get home. I don't have any freebase ready so hopefully that will do.

Edit: No luck… It might work to maybe crush the DMT (i.e. mortar and pestle), shaking doesn't seem to do it.

I think it probably has to be freebased. I'm also not entirely sure I buy this one. It may be a case of 'psychedelic magic,' or people without a whole lot of chemistry knowledge generalizing from LSD.

I don't know much about physical chemistry, but I can't think of any mechanism by which DMT, even when under light pressure might emit enough energy to be perceived as measurable visible light. LSD is really unstable, and the breaking of bonds might release light, but DMT is a pretty well put together molecule.

I certainly think that if DMT is piezoluminescent, a host of other tryptamines should be as well (not just other psychedelic ones) and I've never heard of that in any literature.

Blessings
~ND

 

[downwardsfromzero]

I'm thinking it could be people mixing up fluorescence and piezoluminescence...

If it would have worked, I'd have put my money on the fumarate. Hmmm... but just how pure is 'very pure'? It's not as pure as 'extremely pure'

 

[dark-king]

Although infamous because of his black-market LSD production, Sand was also the first underground chemist on record to have synthesized DMT. Sand and a lab colleague were the first people to notice that DMT exhibits piezoluminescence: when hardened DMT that had collected in a tray was being chipped out with a hammer and screwdriver in a brightly lit room, the blows emitted massive amounts of colored light. Sand was also the first person to realize that synthetic DMT could be smoked for effect; prior to this, self-experimenters were injecting DMT. This discovery came about by serendipity, when some crumbs of DMT fell onto a hotplate and vaporized, inspiring Sand to try smoking it.

Erowid quote

piezoluminescence (definition) = is a form of luminescence created by pressure upon certain solids. This phenomenon is characterized by recombination processes involving electrons, holes and impurity ion centres.[1] Some piezoelectric crystals give off a certain amount of piezoluminescence when under pressure, as in handheld cigarette lighters when the button is pressed.[citation needed] NaCl, KCl, KBr and polycrystalline chips of LiF (TLD-100) have been found to exhibit piezoluminescent properties.[2] It has also been discovered that ferroelectric polymers exhibit piezoluminescence upon the application of stress.[3]


and

In the folk-literature surrounding psychedelic production, DMT, 5-MeO-DMT, and LSD have been reported to exhibit piezoluminescence. As specifically noted in the book Acid Dreams, it is stated that Augustus Owsley Stansley III, one of the most prolific producers of LSD in the 1960s, observed piezoluminescence in the compound's purest form,[4] which observation is confirmed by Alexander Shulgin: "A totally pure salt, when dry and when shaken in the dark, will emit small flashes of white light."[5]

from wiki ...which QUOTES Shulgin's THIKAL....

so imo the phenomenon is totally possible
but
1.)need uber pure DMT
2.)crystal or solid form (clearly not fluffy fumerate)
3.)big quantity (to be observable i assume)
4.)hard strong impact (ex: chipping it from hardened surface with hammer etc...not simply shaking a vial ...that might work for LSD though)

also got here via some info on Nick Sands...man was a legend...

 

[dark-king]

needless to say this topic fascinates me and any insight on someone who can experiment a bit in proper conditions is more than appreciated.

". Sand was also the first person to realize that synthetic DMT could be smoked for effect; prior to this, self-experimenters were injecting DMT. This discovery came about by serendipity, when some crumbs of DMT fell onto a hotplate and vaporized, inspiring Sand to try smoking it." ... seems like the father of DMT ... so it might be true ..but still curious to hear from others

 

[Icon]

I took a picture of one of my most pure freebase recrystallizations while it was sitting on a hard drive disk. I guess it's not the same as piezoluminescence, but I've been wondering why it appeared the way it did - I don't understand light much. I assumed it was the electromagnetism of the disk or the lamp's reflection or something. Kinda cool tho:

But yea, never noticed flashes of light from shaking the crystals. Maybe one of those gemstone-like crystals would be dense enough to flash? Mine are always extremely delicate or powdered.

 

[Spaced Out 2]

Now smash it with a hammer in the dark and see if it makes a spark :d
That's a sweet chunk though :thumb_up:

 

[MaNoMaNoM]

This thread resparked my interest in this, and i thought i would share some links.....

Homebrew piezoelectric

piezo for bug bites

Super simple Piezoelectric Crystal Speaker

homebrew piezo video

make piezoelectric LED light

Wonder if pure enough DMT has strong enough piezo-properties to make things like;
microphones, speakers, electric generators, radios... That would be the AWE+=SUM.

 

[dark-king]

@Icon ...fascinating. so the black line in the mid isnt visible normally?
prob light reflect but nice pic anyways.

what camera did you use? and zoom lenses/filter?

been taking macros myself with a 600d and zoom filters or inverted lens for macro...mostly taking pics of weed buds or e but never got such a line ...max some blur/distort but not a clear line so it surprises me..especially not in the focus point which always comes out the sharpest...

dunno electromagnetics....but i assude it would fuck up the pic worse if it were to be of noticable strenghth...so i wouldnt atribute it to that..

sorry for bad type- injured several fingers.

 

[entheogenic-gnosis]

Although infamous because of his black-market LSD production, Sand was also the first underground chemist on record to have synthesized DMT. Sand and a lab colleague were the first people to notice that DMT exhibits piezoluminescence: when hardened DMT that had collected in a tray was being chipped out with a hammer and screwdriver in a brightly lit room, the blows emitted massive amounts of colored light. Sand was also the first person to realize that synthetic DMT could be smoked for effect; prior to this, self-experimenters were injecting DMT. This discovery came about by serendipity, when some crumbs of DMT fell onto a hotplate and vaporized, inspiring Sand to try smoking it.

https://erowid.org/culture/characters/sand_nick/sand_nick_biography1.shtml

I personally have not noticed DMT emitting light in response to pressure, and was naturally curious...




-eg

 

[Ulim]

Very interesting. Is it piezoluminescence or triboluminescence? Those are very near together.

 

[syberdelic]

I would not doubt in the slightest that DMT is piezoluminescent. Many crystalline structures exhibit this property when the crystalline structures are broken or forced to change polarity. Tin for example when put under enough hydraulic force gives off a crackling whining sound as the crystals in the fractures quickly change polarity. This rapid change in physical structure gives off the audible sound. In the same way, any crystalline structure will emit some sort of vibrational energy such as photons as it's structure is forced to change with energy input.
My guess is that in order to observe this with DMT with the naked eye, it would require a large diameter crystal of high purity being broken in absolute darkness. Imagine someone grasping a 12" long by one inch diameter crystal and applying force to it like trying to bend a metal bar until it snaps. There will be a snapping sound but probably accompanied by the emission of a significant amount of protons.

With that said, I'd love to see a recording of this.

 

[Aum_Shanti]

AFAIK piezoluminescence doesn't necessarily mean the crystal structure has to be broken. AFAIR E.g. quarz exhibits this property without it needing to be broken.

Indigenous people used this property to use quartz crystals like a flashlight by using a stick on it.

I think it is closely related to piezoelectricity. There also fractoelectricity exists which only yields potential if structures are broken. Compared to normal piezoelectricity which is reverseable.

 

[null24]

In posts above, the quote attributed to N. Sands re: chipping (synthetic) DMT from a tray producing large amounts of bright colored light seems pretty outlandish, while the observation attributed to Shulgin re: a vial of crystals producing flashes of white light seems plausible. From what little I know about the piezoelectric phenomenon, I'd wager that a salt would produce the effect before a freebase xtal, but again, what do I know?

Interesting, so who here is going to do the experiment? I have no xtal with which to...

Indigenous people used this property to use quartz crystals like a flashlight by using a stick on it.

Do what? Really? Cite your resource please!

 

[Aum_Shanti]

Do what? Really? Cite your resource please!

Sorry too long ago...
AFAIR this was once a short topic in a documentary. They crafted ripples on top of the stone so that if you move fast along the top with a stick with pressure it very quickly gets pushed together and released again. Similar like the wooden sound frogs.
It got demonstrated and it really did shine a bit in the dark. But surely nothing like a modern flashlight.
But if you have nothing else, I would rather have something like that in a cave than nothing...

BTW: One theory of the origin of the myth of the famous Rheingold was, that quartz stones got transported on the rock bed. When they did often hit each other they also emitted this yellowish light (which was only visible in great darkness).

 

[entheogenic-gnosis]

I was just watching an interview with Nick Sand where he stated that pure DMT exhibits piezoluminescence. Sure enough, wikipedia states:

In the folk-literature surrounding psychedelic production, DMT, 5-MeO-DMT, and LSD have been reported to exhibit piezoluminescence. As specifically noted in the book Acid Dreams, it is stated that Augustus Owsley Stansley III, one of the most prolific producers of LSD in the 1960s, observed piezoluminescence in the compound's purest form,[5] which observation is confirmed by Alexander Shulgin: "A totally pure salt, when dry and when shaken in the dark, will emit small flashes of white light."

Has anyone observed this?

Repeated recrystallizations from methanol produced a product that became progressively less soluble, and eventually virtually insoluble, as the purity increased. A totally pure salt, when dry and when shaken in the dark, will emit small flashes of white light.
-shulgin ; TIHKAL

I always thought The shulgin mention of LSD was regarding Triboluminescence.

Triboluminescence is an optical phenomenon in which light is generated through the breaking of chemical bonds in a material when it is pulled apart, ripped, scratched, crushed, or rubbed (see tribology). The phenomenon is not fully understood, but appears to be caused by the separation and reunification of electrical charges. -Wikipedia

This is what I originally posted, before losing the topic:

Although infamous because of his black-market LSD production, Sand was also the first underground chemist on record to have synthesized DMT. Sand and a lab colleague were the first people to notice that DMT exhibits piezoluminescence: when hardened DMT that had collected in a tray was being chipped out with a hammer and screwdriver in a brightly lit room, the blows emitted massive amounts of colored light. Sand was also the first person to realize that synthetic DMT could be smoked for effect; prior to this, self-experimenters were injecting DMT. This discovery came about by serendipity, when some crumbs of DMT fell onto a hotplate and vaporized, inspiring Sand to try smoking it.

https://erowid.org/culture/characters/sand_nick/sand_nick_biography1.shtml

...another issue I had was the hot-plate story, if people at the time were injecting the compound it would have been in salt from as the freebase is not water soluble...so sand must have known to experiment with the freebase Before it fell on hot-plate.

-eg

 

[downwardsfromzero]

^ Sand would still have produced the freebase during the synthesis at some point. Plus it need not have been freebase for the hotplate to provide the inspiration.