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Do solvents form unwanted compounds when replacing them in a recipe?

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Ufostrahlen

Ufostrahlen

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OG Pioneer
So I want to make a Calea ternifolia (aka zacatechichi) extract in the fashion presented in this paper: Mayagoitia, L; Diaz, J; Contreras, C (1986). "Psychopharmacologic analysis of an alleged oneirogenic plant: Calea zacatechichi". Journal of Ethnopharmacology 18 (3): 229–43. doi:10.1016/0378-8741(86)90002-4. PMID 3821139.

Quote:
One kilogram of the dried plant (stem and leaves)
was mashed and extracted with hexane until exhaustion [..]
The remaining material was thoroughly extracted with methanol
and the organic fraction evaporated.
Click to expand...

The hexane should be no problem, I'll use a low boiling Petroleum ether (40-60 °C). However, in order to save money, I'd like to replace the Methanol. I know that Methanol is a great polar protic solvent - the next best thing to it in my stock is Acetone and IPA. I'd like to do an Acetone pull first, because it's easier to evaporate than IPA. I see that Acetone lacks an H to form additional bonds, but this can be fixed by a second IPA pull.

My question now is: do Acetone and IPA form new (and unwanted) compounds, when replacing the MeOH? In the paper they've tested the MeOH extract thoroughly, but with the new twist I'm a little bit worried.
Or is a polar pull with water no different than a polar pull with Acetone or MeOH? Maybe someone could give me a hint towards the underlying principle. Thanks!
 
Thanks! Good to know. Maybe I'll make a 80:20 Acetone:IPA mixture so my solvent has some H-atoms to form H-bonds, yet the boiling point stays low.

However, I expressed myself unclear.

I want to know, if Acetone or IPA triggers a chemical reaction with the plant compounds MeOH does not. I understand polar solvents in that way, that they form bonds with the salts in the plant, that will later break (due to heat?) when the solvent evaporates.
What I don't know, is if Acetone or IPA forms a bond with a salt or other compound in the plant matter, that later won't break and may cause problems.

I want to get the same extract (quality-wise, not quantity-wise) that a MeOH extract does. Can this be done?
 
That depends on the polarisation of the solvent, a quick google will give you a comparison of the three.
Then you will have to research the chemical make up of Calea ternifolia and determine the solubility of such.
I think you answered your own question that acetone and ipa will dissolve some salts as they are not 100% non polar.
Even naptha for example has been seen to dissolve excess citric acid.
 
Ufostrahlen said:
Thanks! Good to know. Maybe I'll make a 80:20 Acetone:IPA mixture so my solvent has some H-atoms to form H-bonds, yet the boiling point stays low.

However, I expressed myself unclear.

I want to know, if Acetone or IPA triggers a chemical reaction with the plant compounds MeOH does not. I understand polar solvents in that way, that they form bonds with the salts in the plant, that will later break (due to heat?) when the solvent evaporates.
What I don't know, is if Acetone or IPA forms a bond with a salt or other compound in the plant matter, that later won't break and may cause problems.

I want to get the same extract (quality-wise, not quantity-wise) that a MeOH extract does. Can this be done?
Click to expand...
The best alternative (quality-wise) for methanol is water, at least if used as described in your first post. Of course water won't be evaporating as fast as methanol.

Your second alternative is ethanol obviously and will evaporate fast.
 
Thank you guys for your answers. Good idea with the water, I was very focused on boiling points, so I haven't thought about that. Well, I have some time left to think about choosing the right solvent, while the leaves dry.
 
Very interested how it turns out, as i have Calea Zacatekichi too.
Will you extract into the water by heat? ....and then evaporation.

Is there a specific molecule you are after :want:
 
MaNoMaNoM said:
Very interested how it turns out, as i have Calea Zacatekichi too.
Will you extract into the water by heat? ....and then evaporation.

Is there a specific molecule you are after :want:
Click to expand...

Mhh, my calea plants turned out to be 10g dry and inactive material :( Since it was only 10g, I ate the whole batch and my dreams didn't intensify.
My original plan was to adhere to the paper, since they've tested the extract thoroughly. Water seems to be fine, but evaporating ~300 ml at room temperature takes a lot of time. That's why I wanted MeOH... I don't have a specific molecule in mind, as the plant is poorly researched. A full spectrum extract should do fine.
 
One thing often neglected with acetone is to only consider it for pH neutral extractions.
For extracting dried foliage is should generally be benign but if the system becomes significantly acidic or basic acetone becomes chemically reactive and will react with itself forming much higher boiling compounds as well as reacting with several classes of chemical compounds.
...so probably fine here, and not known to cause probs when used in neutral Salvia extractions, but not so much when people use it in a STB extraction, or something like that.
 
Thank you Auxin for this information! Good to know. Being a chem noob, I have to stick to proven paths, but I also like to extend my knowledge.
 
So acetone is bad, unless used in a neutral extractions... Good to know!

Would you please go over the steps in your process, please :d ?
CaleaZ tea, with CaleaZ smoke before bed, turned out a success.

I hope to make an extract sometime this year.. Would an A/B with xylene be a full spectrum?
 
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