Does God Make Mistakes?

[TimeGearingBlocks]

There is an ongoing and popular belief that ALL IS ONE. I have this theory that because mistakes exist in the world and if All is ONE than the ONE is also creating those mistakes. Think about it> If you by yourself were the creator and your creation was a computer, you might make a lot of mistakes along the way in creating that computer until you finally make a functional computer, the final result. But that computer doesn't just end at that. You make more discoveries. Discoveries you didn't know where there. You're feeling around in the dark looking for all of these possibilities that would create a newer and better computer; you would evolve the computer as you discovered these new possibilities that you didn't know where there. This reminds me of people and how when we learn something about each other, we either change our behavior toward one another and evolve to a new belief and get rid of the old beliefs that didn't make sense or you have such a strong truth about something that you cannot let go of it and it becomes unearthed thousands of years later. Such as Buddhist or Hindu teachings. Things that are not yet tangible on that computer/science level. Tangible evidence is though, something that only humans have created. A sort of logic that keeps us separated from our imagination and from believing everything that happens in our imagination is real on this physical plane.

I am not saying that I think as a whole God made one huge mistake but rather along the way, God makes several mistakes until God finds the truth as he/she/it is feeling around in the dark. I like to refer to the imagination as it's own plane of existence. That everything happening in our imagination is real on some level of existence even if not here on this third dimension. Perhaps the imagination is just a draft set of blueprints. Dreams can only come to life if they are realistic right? So maybe the imagination is Gods playing field. "How could this possibility exist here on this planet or that planet or this plane or that plane?" Meanwhile, we get to take on the individual burden of each of Gods dreams that might be executed. Maybe God had to execute them to see that he/she/it even exists itself. Sort of like when you pinch yourself to see if you are awake.

My partner likes to argue that we are not yet evolved enough to understand or comprehend the grand picture of things (which is as far as we know true); that God in essence does not make mistakes because God has to execute all possibilities that exist in the universe including the dark and twisted ones and including what us humans perceive as mistakes. But why do we make the same mistakes? Well we don't actually. We make a variation of that mistake. Lack of memory could cause you to repeat a mistake and if God is all and everything, I can't imagine how many brains and memories God goes through trying to remember everything. Or like with the black hole theory, not all information is thrown away. It is stored somewhere. Like maybe on a different plane.

The example I hold for this "mistake" philosophy is only single minded, my own perspective. Which is this: if God does not make mistakes, then my mother who claims she made a mistake giving birth to me was only her free will and God was relying on her personal mistake to create me. I can't wrap my head around that one. But of course that example would rely on the belief that there is one creator that created all of us. If ALL IS ONE, though, than this example is void of truth in my perspective. It sort of irks me to think that God would create a mistake perceivable by one human just to throw us into all of the hardships we have had to endure in our lifetimes.

Honestly, I would rather believe that God is a part of me and a part of my mother and a part of you and since my mother made that mistake, a part of God also made that mistake. It would go hand in hand by that belief. And when we create a mistake, we are either forced to abandon the mistake, throw it away (death) and retry in a new setting or fix the mistake and create something better from it (recycle/rebirth) or even do our best to cover up this mistake with lies. And perhaps if this is true than maybe God keeps waking up to all of it's own darkness, thinking it was all just a dream and couldn't really exist, perhaps ashamed and hides these darkness or thinks it is hiding them which may be why lies exist in the universe and repetition of these mistakes. Have you ever lied to yourself about something you thought wasn't true and had to keep testing it to make sure it was true? If God is all and everything then God is everything that exists now, including the opinion of mistakes, the lies, the hatred, the ignorance, the brilliance, the love, the truths, and the opinion of perfections.

 

[Psychelectric]

A Sermon of Iron

" “The world now exists as unforged steel, the fires of hell and the hammers of time push the impurities out until there is nothing left but a gleam.” He spoke with a certainty that bordered on fanaticism. His callused hand griped leather bound to iron and moved swift against the black and grey lump. An orange glow spread out in the cracks of metal like tiny bolts of lightning. Each strike echoed in the forge like a thunderclap.

“What does that make you?” The apprentice’s words trembled with a curiosity tainted by fear.

“The devil.” His voice was stern and his eyes never left the anvil. He paused and sunk into a more gentle voice, gentle at least for a thirty-year blacksmith whose work had seen nine wars and countless minor skirmishes. “And God. Without the fire, nothing can be forged. Without metal, nothing can be worked. And without the crafter, nothing can be created. But alas I only work iron. Some men work the trees. Some men work the stone. Physicians work the flesh. Even the bards work words. We all do our part in shaping iron into steel. After aeons pass, when God is satisfied with his creation then the almighty will wield his sword, but until that day, we are still seated on the anvil having the devils beat from us and the fire burning away our sins.” "

–The Dragon and the Hourglass.

 

[SpartanII]

Maybe God's/The Universe's "mistakes" are how it experiences it's creation?8)

The Cosmic Catastrophe

"What better way for "God" to know himself than to divide his awareness so that "he" can observe objectively as creator and subjectively as creation?"

"One of the first things we learn is that emanation consists of a hierarchy of awareness. The Kabbalah explains that the Ein-Sof (Logos, Brahman, whatever) made ten emanations called Sephiroth, vessels to contain the light (consciousness) pouring into them from Consciousness-Without-An-Object's imagination. These vessels weren't able to contain this outpouring, and in what Kabbalists describe as a "cosmic catastrophe", the vessels shattered into innumerable pieces and scattered throughout the realms of hyperspace, each fragment containing a spark of divine light (that's us). The main task of every Kabbalist is to "raise the sparks" of his or her own separated consciousness to reunite with the Ein-Sof that emanated them."

"Every sentient entity in the multiverse is both an observer and an object of perception, and the source from which they emanate is the Primary Observer, which is unadulterated Consciousness itself. Before emanation, perception can not take place because perception involves both an observer and that which is observed."

and

"[The universe is apparently] constructed (and thus in such as way as to be able) to see itself. But in order to do so, evidently it must first cut itself up into at least one state which sees, and at least one other state which is seen. In this severed and multilated condition, whatever it sees is only partially itself...But, in any attempt to see itself as an object, it must, equally undoubtedly, act so as to make itself distinct from, and therefore, false to, itself. In this condition it will always partially elude itself." (55)

"Thus consciousness is prior to observation. Combine this logical necessity with emanation and we see that whatever the Cosmic Mind imagines cannot be separated from its source. It follows then, that as the matter-energy created within this explosive act of imagination expands and fragments, becoming ever more complex, each emerging monad of fresh awareness perceives as a subjective fractal of the objective One Mind in whatever dimension it finds itself. Hence universe becomes Multiverse."

The Cracking Tower, by Jim DeKorne

(I've posted this several times here at the Nexus because I feel it is so applicable to many ideas on the concept of God, Mysticism, the duality/oneness paradox, and subjective/objective nature of reality).

 

[RhythmSpring]

First of all, you are unconsciously applying the dimension time to the concept of God. God exists outside of time. Therefore God could not have made a mistake in the past, nor will he make a mistake in the future. If he "made" a mistake, then it's happening right now. God is a constant source of reality; the Big Bang is happening in every moment.

Here's how I see it:

God is the source of all things. God is perfection. God in itself is unmanifest.

Humans are a/the bridge from the unmanifest to the manifest. This takes quite an amount of skill 8) *Humans* make the mistakes. We are both earthly and godly. We bridge the two worlds. We stand with one foot in the eternal, the perfect, the unmanifest, and another foot in the finite, the imperfect, and the manifest. If everything was the former, everything would be harmonious, static, but nothing real, nothing tangible. If everything was the latter, all would be just lifeless, dumb matter, static in a different way. The world of human consciousness (which is the only world we know of) is a dynamic interplay of both.

So I guess what I'm saying is that God doesn't make mistakes; humans make mistakes. Just because humans are part of god doesn't mean we *are* god. We're just half god. The other part of us is definitely not god-but it might eventually be infused with the essence of god if we get this shit right.

 

[Intezam]

Even the wicked can see where this goes off-taal (rhythm)...therefore we are in dire need of a RhythmSpring....:|

 

[Gonzukes]

Well, define a "mistake"

Perhaps on the grand scheme of infinity, there are no mistakes. It's all just unfolding in whatever manner it is.

 

[upwaysidedown]

Well, define a "mistake"

Perhaps on the grand scheme of infinity, there are no mistakes. It's all just unfolding in whatever manner it is.

While you are at it define "God" or "The One".

But if you assume that "God" is the neo-platonic "The One", i.e. a definition of all that is and all that can be, then anything defined as a mistake is also contained; however it is that you define mistake.

I subscribe to very much a Rupert Sheldrake view of the evolution of the Universe (and thus also the One), humanity's evolution is probably analogous to the evolution of the consciousness of the One.

This to me is where the vision of a perfect pure goodness and light of a creator God is wholly flawed. Clearly there can be gods or entities that can encompass only concepts that we as humans consider good, virtuous, loving etc. But the Whole contains all.

The other frame of reference is to define all "good" things as existence, and all bad as absence or a lack of good. Thus we have The One surrounded by a void. But to me even void must have substance, and if it can tangibly produce concepts (such as fear, harm, anger) then these are real and must form part of the One.

Thing is as Gonzukes wisely points out. What is a mistake? Every "mistake" led to here and now, and here and now is where we are and what we are. If mistakes are bad then you are implying that here and now is a mistake and not what we should be - I am not sure what meaning that has.

With much thought I would say we are becoming. Not having yet become, but continuing, is the process of becoming, it is not a mistake. Which is what I think everyone here is agreeing on.

I would just personally disagree in "The Dragon and the Hourglass" quote. Which implies God is separate from the sword or stands outside of "creation". But who knows what I may think tomorrow.

 

[RhythmSpring]

Even the wicked can see where this goes off-taal (rhythm)...therefore we are in dire need of a RhythmSpring[/spoiler]

I have returned.

No, but seriously,

how can you have music without tension?

You do not pause the Bach piece on the most hideous chord near the end and say, "Why is this mistake here?" You continue on, and the final notes of the piece put the rest of the "mistakes," the tension in the piece, in context.

Interesting youtube videos, Intezam.

 

[hug46]

Well, define a "mistake"

Perhaps on the grand scheme of infinity, there are no mistakes. It's all just unfolding in whatever manner it is.

Yes i like that aswell it reminds me of the story of an old farmer who had worked his crops for many years. One day his horse ran away. Upon hearing the news, his neighbors came to visit.

"Such bad luck," they said sympathetically.

"We'll see," the farmer replied.

The next morning the horse returned, bringing with it three other wild horses.

"How wonderful," the neighbors exclaimed.

"We'll see," replied the old man.

The following day, his son tried to ride one of the untamed horses, was thrown, and broke his leg. The neighbors again came to offer their sympathy on his misfortune.

"We'll see," answered the farmer.

The day after, military officials came to the village to draft young men into the army. Seeing that the son's leg was broken, they passed him by. The neighbors congratulated the farmer on how well things had turned out.

"We'll see" said the farmer.

My thoughts on the matter are that of course God makes mistakes. Nobody is perfect. Perfection is a human made subjective concept and we consider God to be perfect as a reflection of our own aspirations. The lofty and impossible myth of perfection serves us well in that there will always be something for us to work towards..the unattainable.

 

[brilliantlydim]

If God is all, then it created itself. It did not exist before its creation, paradoxical I know.

I don't think it has made, is making, or will make a mistake. The thing is that I believe the system is perfect in its entirety, and would have to be in order for it to exist in the way that it does.

What we define as mistakes are necessary for the the complete package. If you could look at the entire system as a whole including all frames of what we call time at once you would be able to understand that it is perfect.

Its kind of how we look at death as a bad thing (most people for the most part), yet we know death in the greater scheme of things is not bad, and is necessary. When something dies, it breaks down and becomes the building blocks for something else, something that is needed at that time.

I think this is where the idea of "faith" came from in certain religious systems. It is the idea that even though we can't see the entire system and don't understand the larger implications of the smaller things that are happening, if we blindly trust that the system is perfect, runs in intelligent way, the ride to be smoother for us.

As we can see humanity in general has a problem with this trust, and instead we want to "reinvent" the system in our own ways. We make "mistakes" when doing this, but in the greater scheme of things they are not mistakes. Like a toddler growing up, not listening to their parents and doing things on their own, "mistakes" are part of the package and are necessary for us to evolve. Thats the beauty of the system, its auto correcting.

 

[Koornut]

God or no god, what your mother said to you is plain old messed up selfish behaviour. That much is true.

 

[JDSalinger]

This is something I have pondered on for years. I believe that there is one God which has always existed outside of time and space, within this there are most possibly lesser gods or beings. When you talk about 'all is one' this is something I have personally felt, but I believe that there is still an intrinsic individuality to us. I think about the trinity, three beings separate yet the same. I believe that after death we will be a part of this union, so in a sense we will all be joined, yet God is still not us per se.

It is strange to think of God making a mistake, since God is omniscient then a mistake would have been deliberately made, contradictory I know yet I believe 'us' to be that mistake. When I think about the destruction we have wrecked upon the world (God's own creation), I become ashamed of who we are. We not only hurt our own kind in the most horrible ways but everything else as well. That is free will though, or awareness, we are aware of others to such a degree we become selfish and all that is derived from that want. Yet we emanate from God, so this was all foreseen and allowed...

 

[Chan]

People say human beings are like a cancer or a virus. . . well there’s one other thing that has the exact same growth curve and that’s mushroom spores. And if you look at the space probes we send out, they look exactly like bacterial spores or mushroom spores. And there’s no way those probes are sterile. Think about it -- the bacterial spores from which all life on Earth originally evolved are being taken into space and dropped everywhere. One of the early critics of James Lovelock’s Gaia hypothesis, Richard Dawkins, argued that Gaia wasn’t alive because Gaia doesn’t reproduce. But how could a man with an 80 year life span know what a 4.5 billion year old organism is capable of? Gaia learns over time and is always innovating. What if Gaia is reproducing? It took about a billion years for the bacterial membrane to form around the Earth and for Gaia to come into being. That’s a long time.
Now we humans have used a huge amount of the Earth’s resources to get where we are. But think about a plant in the fall when it’s setting seed, it begins to look kind of ragged and straggly, right? That’s because it’s using up all of its resources to set seed. What if Gaia is setting seed? What if we had to use Gaia’s stored resources to build the kind of technology (but it’s not new so don’t think it is, it’s all based on patterns already present in the Gaian ecosystem) to launch Earth’s bacteria into space, to other planets so it can germinate there? And think about it, all the time we want to go “up and out”. Even the ancients were fascinated with the solar system. And the whole Christian thing: “It’s out there! That’s where we have to go.” Why are we driven to go up and out? Because it’s part of our ecological function to do so. People think that this means some sort of Star Trek future. I’m not so sure. We are, as Bucky Fuller said, only throw away. It’s the bacteria we carry within us and from which we come that is important, from that all things are possible, new planetary life is possible.

And so then what happens? After the plant sets seed, winter comes and the plant regenerates itself. We’re right on the edge of another ice age, which is winter for the planet so it can regenerate. It’s an incredibly elegant pattern. I think one of the reasons we believe we’re so special is we have a sense that we’re the pollinators for the planet in this period. This concept is not new, it’s just that you have to think outside of the box to see it. Bucky Fuller said, and I thought it was a metaphor at the time, “We’re like bees, you see. Bees who go out looking for honey without realizing that they’re also performing cross-pollination”. That’s what we’re doing. Part of the function of people like you and me and the Gaian work we’ve been given to do is to help maintain the balance while we go through this.

Full Interview

 

[nen888]

..i like the concept of Gaia theory...but this is still a very small scale..

the concept of a 'mistake' is completely within the relative and limited perspective of the human mind..

the idea of 'God' from the Advaita Vedantan perspective (which i think is one of the most developed or advanced)
is that 'It' is the nature of reality itself, and is Non-Dual..
it is the basis and hence origin of everything, but it (Brahman) does not create..
creation is seen as 'Maya', which is a 'power' of Brahman, but is not the absolute itself...
what is seen as the universe, through mind, is a projection (imagination) emanating from the absolute, but is not the absolute itself, as the absolute (or 'She' to the shakta) is everything which is, and everything which is not..

say the upanishads 'the absolute void and it's opposite, I am'

from this position, there are no 'real' locations in space and time, they are all projections within a singularity..
or it could be seen like holographic theories in which the space/time dimensions are embedded in a higher, timeless dimensional reality..
all that is truly 'real' is the thing doing the projection (imagining)..the rest is transient..

'mistakes' are ignorance of full knowledge...everything except the non-dual is in some way 'ignorant', however our individual minds may qualify them

Brahman (god) or Para Adi Shakti (She), through the power of Maya (projection) is the angels and demons, the saints and sinners...she (it) is ultimately compassionate, blissful, and completely unstained or affected by her (it's) creations..

from the high view, there is no difference between pleasure and pain...this is just a limited perspective..

this is echoed in the ancient Gnostic text, The Thunder - Perfect Mind:

"For I am the first and the last.
I am the honored one and the scorned one.
I am the whore and the holy one.
I am the wife and the virgin.
I am the mother and the daughter.
I am the members of my mother.
I am the barren one
and many are her sons."

all possibilities are allowed, and seen from points of view of mind...
but everything within the creation (within the Absolute) is, Vedanta says, 'ignorance'...a 'veiled' or limited aspect...
whether its a saintly human being, an idea, a measurement, an emotion, a monster, a disease, or a beautiful flower..
'she' is ultimately compassionate and the nature of bliss itself..

from the Dvaita (unqualified dualism Dvaita Vedanta - Wikipedia ) point of view (Vaishnavis etc, or like the christian philosophies of Saint Augustine), god is 'perfect' (complete), but god's creations are not - they never can be..'good', 'bad' or otherwise, which is only ever relative (though in dvaita vedanta the ultra god does not create either)

what is ultimately 'Good' (not a mistake) is the Existence itself, and the miracle of the mystery of creation within Reality..

'God' as the Absolute is beyond the comprehension of mind, as mind is a limited aspect of it...
many judeo-christian and similar concepts of 'god' are far below this bar, including intellectually and compassionately..

and of course the paradox is that you are ultimately that..

Amen
.

 

[thymamai]

Never thought about it. Or if I did, it was a very long time ago because it seems odd, odd like something from a line in apocalypse now. This existence is not, I repeat it is not my apocalypse now. It is rather dull and underwhelming, but otherwise extremely neutral and neither here nor there on all fronts.

When you've stopped searching for reasons and excuses for why you are unhappy and stopped looking for the truth almighty, the truth will come for you like the destroyer himself. And you will not be happy, and you will not be clean, but you will never look back again.

 

[ganesh]

Our thinking is our biggest stumbling block. What/who is God? What if God was just an energy? What are mistakes? What if what we judged as mistakes were just as important to human functioning/God, as anything else?

Maybe us Humans have a problem whereby we think we are superior and know best. But maybe we don't. We are living miracles, yet can allow such mundane stupidities to get us down.

Personally i believe that God is an energy, and we are part of the energy. We have the ability to choose which energy to flow with, and we know too well what happens when we play with this flow. Sometimes life is easy, sometimes we make mistakes. But mistakes aren't wrong, just learning opportunities. What is important is that we learn not to repeat them and move on, keep flowing.

I think God is infused into everything that exists via various energetic vibrations, and yes, we are therefore 'all one', at the core. However we are also individual energetic vibrational expressions of God trying to work together in tandem for a greater positive, high frequency, and we know this because it instinctively 'feels right', and that is what drives us, this positive vibe.

So God is in the Planet, the rocks, the sky, the sea, us, animals, everywhere. We act as humans do, animals as animals do, rocks as rocks do, etc.. We are trapped into being humans, we are not rocks! Think about it. Does a rock care about our concerns, no, it is just a rock operating at a different vibration!

God will always exist. The energy will just transform. There are no mistakes (or rigidity), just movement. We can't 'think this out' in all it's vibrational broadness, but we can at least understand that God flows like a stream does, and that water never makes mistakes as it flows. We as humans can either sail along it or battle against it, but we will surely learn sooner of later (by the power of the nature) the better way forward...

 

[darklordsson]

Start by listening to this,--->

Lessons cannot be learned without mistakes. Especially the ones with most impact, you will remember those.

Oboros, repeating the same thing, the serpent. Dont let things or people make you eat yourself, a self-destructive pattern gets you nowhere.

Until he stops making mistakes and learns not to make them twice, its called growing.

Now there is a different circle of things a strong Raaa!! Is heard and is formed into this (by ones self). As mythology is concerned dragons reflect light and are spiritual beings. They breath fire and are great things,

here's another bit of info that boggles the mind,

God is not weak, nor does this being want us to be weak, become something great, be moral, and uphold the right in my opinion the world is full of liars and cheats. Don't be deceived, when you look someone in the eye

Make sure you or they are not full of shit, because you reap what you sew. It wouldnt seem to me that he's out just for a devastating stroll, but to find the wrong and consume them.

True GOD does not want you to be part of him but to follow the teachings of better existence, not drown yourself in what is "whole". Cut the damn cord already and rely on yourself and true friends, for he is tired but still very awake, he will help if you ask.