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Doing harm while travelling?

Migrated topic.

Sampo

Sampo
Hi,

This is my first post on this most excellent board.

I was talking with a friend of mine, who had quite an amazing experience vaporizing spice.
He asked me to do some research, as he can't become wiser himself.

A while ago he extracted some spice from MHRB using the Noman's tek (using Heptane as solvent)
The spice came out beautiful so he didn't wash it.

Lacking a proper vaporizing device the spice has been sitting around for a while, most of the time in the freezer. (He has an Aromazap vaporizer, but it's hard to get a proper hit – not recommended, he says.)
Somehow he was fortunate enough to get hold of a VaporGenie pipe, and this device can hold enough spice to send him off.

One nice morning he decided to try out the pipe the second time, which was already loaded with approx. 50-60mg spice. (The spice was soaked around some tiny crumbled MJ leaves, weight 10-15mg, intended for the Aromazap)
He inhaled a long slow draw, without applying too much heat to the pipe, held the breath for 17 seconds and exhaled a lot of white vapour while already feeling the effects. Inhaling the second time, putting down the pipe and lighter and lying down on the bed with his cover above him.
He relaxed completely, and emptied his mind. There was no markedly visuals, but mostly blackness initially. No bad/burnt/metallic taste, even afterwards.

He says he didn't remember a lot of the first part too well, but he's sure he felt like space was filled with “bubbles” of either dimensions/universes/realities. He was moved around, having forgot who and what “he” was. Suddenly after a while it was like a universe had been created, with suns and planets, etc. and “he” was in the middle of it. Up until now “he” was just feeling so blissful, almost what he later would imagine a sperm would feel like before it finds the egg.

The next part stuck to his mind, as “he” suddenly became aware of being aware – and opened his eyes. The space he was in was so strange and unfamiliar. He closed his eyes again, not sure what would happen. What was the reason, what was the purpose, what/who was he, what was he supposed to do??
He opened his eyes again, and the same unfamiliar room was still there. Everything looked so alien and strange. It was like he was just born to this new world, not having a single clue as what to do – so he sat up and looked around. (My friend is near sighted, and journeys without his glasses or contacts – so nothing was in focus) He wanted it to go away and return to where he came from, but reality was a reality, and it wasn't going away!
He quickly came to the conclusion that he would have to start learning everything he needed to learn in order to experience this reality, as it would be a complete waste of life otherwise. No matter what others might think of him, he was sure he would succeed.

After a minute of awe, he realized the meaning of responsibilities and work. Would he be able to full fill a job position? Suddenly he recalled a project where he works, and knew deep down that everything would solve itself. Slowly his memory came back to him and he understood more and more about society, etc.
During the entire time his core “I ~ consciousness” was present right in the middle of the rear of his scull, he just had total amnesia.

30 or so mins later he had almost landed completely, feeling very alive.

He was also a little sad, as he had realized from previously reading other peoples postings, that we might cause hurt in other “entities lives”. He said he remembered reading about other people describing “waking” up with parents looking down at them in different realities.
Sometimes the person was moved/rushed to a different place. To me it sounds much like child birth.
I've read a lot about astral projection, but never consciously experienced it myself, but supposedly the soul is connected to the body through a silver cord. This cord is only broken when you die, leaving you in the astral realm (Spice land?).

What if spice travel is allowing the human soul to take hold in a different body, but only temporarily? What would happen afterwards to the body, that was visited by the traveller – would it die?
Is this why some people report they're not allowed “in at various places in hyperspace” - the beings there have realized what spice is capable of doing - killing their off-spring?

On the other hand it sounds like a great mechanism to spread consciousness and knowledge between vast distances in dimensions/space/time – if done correctly.

My friend has been debating the issue a bit, but has come to the conclusion that if he intends no harm, wishes no harm, but is open to what the spice can teach him – that he'll do no harm, and not be harmed, while exploring in the future. (Some species on this planet eats their own off-spring, and I'm sure they don't feel hurt doing that)

Anyway, I promised to ask:

Does anybody think spice journeys can cause any harm to other entities?

And,

Has anybody ever completely forgotten who/what they were during/initially after a trip?
(Most posts seems to indicate to us that people know they “belong” here on Earth, while exploring other realms)



We hope this long post was enjoyable :d

Happy travels!
 
Now that you mention it, if what we're doing is more than just in our head, I have no doubt that we're screwing something up somewhere.... Its rare that humans mean to cause harm, we just seem to spread it wherever we go regardless....
 
Very good topic. I'm relatively new to the spice world, but I've read a lot on forums and erowid and I've never seen anyone pose this question. If these dimensions are "real" and not just in our head then we ARE likely having an effect on other beings or dimensions (ex. Quantim Leap). It is also possible that you and I(as they exist on Earth in CE 2009) are all creations of McKenna(or anyone else)'s mind in the midst of a DMT session and are living out our "lives" in that creation.
 
Sampo said:
Does anybody think spice journeys can cause any harm to other entities?
No, I personally don't think, but I do think that worrying about such things could affect your journeys negatively. If you personally think that your journeys will hurt other beings in this world or another, then maybe the right thing to do would be to stop journeying. Project love and ye should be fine!
Sampo said:
Has anybody ever completely forgotten who/what they were during/initially after a trip?
During, yes, such as ego death. It can get very weird in there. SWIM has always been fine afterwards, but he has heard stories told on here of people thinking they were god for a few days afterwards, but he doesn't know how strongly such beliefs truly were.
:)
 
Thanks for your interest and answers.

ohayoco said:
Sampo said:
Does anybody think spice journeys can cause any harm to other entities?
No, I personally don't think, but I do think that worrying about such things could affect your journeys negatively. If you personally think that your journeys will hurt other beings in this world or another, then maybe the right thing to do would be to stop journeying. Project love and ye should be fine!

Fortunately my friend has the "ability" not to worry, and has come to the conclusion that more good than bad can be done with spice. He's just very ethical, and lacking experience he wanted to know what others might have learned.

ohayoco said:
Sampo said:
Has anybody ever completely forgotten who/what they were during/initially after a trip?
During, yes, such as ego death. It can get very weird in there. SWIM has always been fine afterwards, but he has heard stories told on here of people thinking they were god for a few days afterwards, but he doesn't know how strongly such beliefs truly were.
:)

Sounds interesting. I presume they regained their memories about their "former" earthly life (from before taking the spice journey) when they came back with (a) God's memories :?:

Well, I presume the next thing for him is to learn how to dose correctly, so ego death is avoided.
Also some longer journeys might help integrate things better, perhaps with mushrooms as a base (which he's surprisingly insensitive to).

Take care!
 
Sampo said:
What if spice travel is allowing the human soul to take hold in a different body, but only temporarily? What would happen afterwards to the body, that was visited by the traveller – would it die?
Is this why some people report they're not allowed “in at various places in hyperspace” - the beings there have realized what spice is capable of doing - killing their off-spring?

Hi Sampo, great post, sorry to chop off the other parts, but the question I'm quoting above is of particular interest to me.

While I've never had a feeling of occupying a different body, I was thinking that the reason some places were 'off limits' was due to personal inability to navigate those spaces, the entities dislike for the traveler, or breaking some rules in places and being kicked out of them (has anyone else ever been thrown out of an entity-owned pub?).

The thought that bodies were dying somewhere never occurred to me, but it seems that there may be a consensus that we can't physically hurt them (emotions seem to be fair game) and they can't hurt us, even if we/they want to.
 
I tend to think the Entities (or at least most of them ) do rather Benefit from Travellers coming from our Plane of Reality - they want you to learn to operate and get used to their worlds/dimensions/technologies .
The more we can access their plane of Reality - the more they can access the Next higher Level.

I guess thats also what the Implants are about.
 
Observant said:
I tend to think the Entities (or at least most of them ) do rather Benefit from Travellers coming from our Plane of Reality - they want you to learn to operate and get used to their worlds dimensions technologies .
The more we can access their plane of Reality - the more they can access the Next higher Level.

I guess thats also what the Implants are about.

How does that work? Do you mean that once we are famililar with their dimensions and technologies (I'm glad you pluralized both of these), we can take over their functions so that they can focus on 'the Next higher Level?'

Can you expain the Implants?
 
This is a most interesting topic, that I belive was touched on in another thread.


If one believes that hyperspace is only a reality to the spice traveler then obviously no harm can come to others.

However, if one believes that hyperspace is what the definition of hyperspace is "a place occuring outside of normal space" then the question becomes valid.

Personally, no I do not believe that we cause any harm to others while in hyperspace. Too many entities are thrilled to see me (or could care less) when I enter their realm.

Sometimes I believe that I have acutally crossed over to the other side (i.e. realm before birth and after death), and there no harm can come, only love.

If you intend no harm in hyperspace I don't believe you can cause any.
 
Yea, personally, I don't believe I've caused harm to anything in hyperspace, however, that's not to say I think it would necessarily be impossible to harm entities in hyperspace, but I feel that this is a case in which the individual would have to truly carry the intention to do harm into hyperspace. Personally, I don't know if such a strong intention could be carried through with the individual, IMO it would require some serious concentration and mental effort. However, even with the intention carried through, how would you actually go about causing harm? As Acolon said, the entities are always so excited to have you there and the interactions happen on a level where harm, as we would define it, seems to be an irrelevant concept.

I've definitely forgotten who I was, ala ego death, but I found this to be a much less disconcerting forgetting (as I had experienced it with mushrooms and acid) than forgetting the concept of what human was. I can't truly describe it, but essentially I was myself trying to remember what it was to be human, deeper than body parts, it was as though i had truly entered an alien consciousness that could picture the physical human entity but could not actually make any sense of what it was or any concepts or specifics of what it meant to be human.
 
how would you actually go about causing harm?

Ok, I see we can let it loose here, so here it goes :)

Let's say you're rising up on the frequency ladder to such high vibratory states where the Gods are doing their thing. They see that you have the right frequency (otherwise you would be incompatible with that dimension so you wouldn't even perceive it) so they allow you to their secret chambers (actually, the high vibration guarantees the entrance like kind of a psychedelic passport). You start playing with the reality controls yourself, creating and sustaining universes, thinking out new kinds of beings, that stuff. Then somehow - perhaps not even the Gods understand how as they never saw a being from another plane coming to theirs, it's perhaps a thing that only those strange human beings do according to God's unknown plan - you lose your balance and start to wreak havoc in the control room. What they see is that a gross frequency level is turned on, so the human being seems to be present on two levels at once, and he - God forbid! - starts channeling the chaotic stuff of the lower level (unknown to them as only human beings have chakra systems with which they can be present on several levels at once) to their reality. Whooo what a bummer, in a second that human being changed something very basic in the course of history or that particular ego structure or whatever. Like blasting with a random generator into the middle of their cherished mathematical perfection. According to God's plan? Possibly. But who knows.
 
SWIM has had experiences where the people there seem upset and are trying to scare you away. But, most of the time they seem either welcoming or just indifferent to your presence. Lately they've been human-size faceless people and are simply pointing and pulling and vying for attention. - So IMO hyperspace travelers are probably not causing any harm at all- maybe just startling them sometimes.

SWIM has definitely had the feeling of forgetting everything. Like you forget everything from your name to being able to speak/comprehend the language you spoke 5 mins. ago.
 
It seems that when we smoke the spice we able to move between the 3 worlds in shamanism, upper, middle and lower this can account for the range of experiences and the worst experiences likely come from those of us accidentally travelling to some stuck spirit in the middle world, perhaps it could also be someone sleeping somewhere having a nightmare.

Truly I don't know but traditionally shamans would only travel into the middle world if they where highly experienced because in the upper and lower world there are supposedly more helping spirits than malevolent ones, the middle world can have highly angry spirits which died in bad circumstances and are still suffering and mad.

This is what I have garnered over my study of core shamanism however I must say when I journey it can be difficult to figure out which world I have gone too. Too bad there arent shamans living in every town like doctors.

I don't think that the spirits that push us away are always guarding something from us(sometimes I do though) perhaps they are protecting us from a particularly dangerous piece of hyperspace.

Peace and Love
 
wertpog said:
Fascinating, I don't know of any other drug that raises these questions.

I doubt you will ever find one that does. This is yet another reason this facinating molecule is a lot more to many of us than just another mind altering substance (aka "drug").
 
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