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Doing pharma for the first time

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DMTripper

DMTripper

John Murdoch IV
Howdy peoples!

I have 250mg's of caapi extracted harmalas and I want to do pharma for the first time. Will 250mg's of harmalas be enough for full MAOI effect?
How much DMT should I take with it and should I take everything at once or the harmalas first?
Can I mix both in orange juice?

Btw. I'm skinny, 65kg's. And I'm quite used to big doses of shrooms.

So what do you people think?
 
I would down the 250mgs in something like orange juice or whatever you prefer with 70mg of DMT.

If in an hour or two you don't get to where you wanted to be, you can eat more dmt, or smoke more DMT.
You can also eat something light at this time to get your digestive system moving.
 
I always like to take my harmalas/DMT 20 min apart, but either way is viable. The most important part is that you end up getting MAO inhibition because even if the DMT can't take effect, or takes little effect, you can easily just ingest more or smoke some DMT. Unless things are getting out of control intense on their own, I would not pass up this opportunity to see what smoking a small dose (10-15mg) about 1.5-2 hours after ingestion results in. It's always my favorite part, and can take you to levels that even highly experienced smokers have a hard time fathoming without the full throttle of MAOI. The "smoked effects" last about an hour before you're back to "just the drink".
 
I would dissolve the harmalas in a shot of water, give it a stir and take it on an empty stomach.
Wait 20 minutes/till you feel the effects then down XXmg DMT (salts) dissolved in water or freebase in OJ. Jorkest found 30mg spice too much... i found 150mg too little. With that solid 250mg harmalas i would take 35mg of DMT (freebase). Remember DMT salts weigh more then DMT freebase because the salt group adds weight but is not actual DMT. Thus 30mg DMT fumarate will be less DMT then 30mg DMT freebase.

No amount of DMT will be enough unless fully inhibited from the MAOI, so most people would recommend a solid harmala dose as the base for any DMT addition. This way you know any DMT you consume will reach the brain.

If the effects don't start after a while, try eating a slice of wholemeal pitta bread with olive oil.

Have a suitable container about the same volume as your stomach... just incase.
 
Ok that was way too much!!

This was the most hellish nightmare I've ever been through and I still can't believe I managed to get out of it with out loosing my sanity forever.
For the last weeks/months I've felt something like this coming but well not like this. Not so fiercely and brutally. I'm amazed I am what I am after this hell. I was absolutely on the edge of sanity approx. 5 hours ago.

I don't share much of my experiences here because I've never felt words do them justice. But I'm going to tell you my story now.
My wife left the country with my daughter two weeks ago to go visit her sister that lives in Spain. I had decided to use that time to do some tripping and work on myself.
10 days ago I did my first trip of this session with only 1.5gr. of shrooms. I've had 3-4 times that amount before and I have countless trips experienced, but this time I went deeper than ever into ecstasy and euphoria. That trip started a bit rough but I overcame some stuff within myself that night and experienced bliss. I was very surprised how much effects I got from that amount. I have 18 years of experience with shrooms and I thought they could not surprise me but the certainly did that night.

4-5 days later I had another trip with exactly the same amount of shrooms from the same batch but with very little effects. Another surprise. And not a question of tolerance because a friend of mine took shrooms too both these nights and tripped hard the second one too with same amount. Actually he's very experienced with shrooms too but they took him by surprize that night. He got a bit overwhelmed while I hardly felt any effects.

Then last saturday I again took the same amount with very little effects again.

Then last night I decide to go for pharma for the first time and because I only had 250mg's of harmalas I didn't want it to fail I wanted to be quite sure I would feel the effects of both the harmalas and the DMT. Before tonight I had only twice had caapi only brew that was fine and I had done some experimenting with rue seeds.

So at 22:00 I mixed the harmalas with OJ and waited 10 min before drinking it. Then I mixed 85mg's of DMT freebase with OJ and drank that 20 min. later. It took a while to start to take effect and at first I thought maybe I wouldn't feel much effect 'cause I had read how much difference in amount people need.
But then it started and quite fast became quite intense. I've had some anxiety the last months and I wanted to dive into that to try to understand where it came from and how to let go of it.
But what I dove into was not anxiety but pure madness and absolute terror. I felt I was battling some demon inside of me. Later I felt like I was battling a fierce animal. My animal nature. Like I was taming the animal within. first round was what I thought quite hard, but suddenly things went quiet and I could relax a little bit. At that time I thought maybe that was it but I've never been more wrong in my life.

Round two it became more intense and I started to get a bit scared. But again things slowed down a little bit and I started to feel better and I decided to take a hot shower. I was at that point shivering with cold and controlling my body was getting a bit hard.

Then all hell broke loose! There's no way I can explain the terror. I'm convinced this is the hardest most horrible thing my soul has been through in all my existence. I was so afraid I would never come back and my wife would come back home with my wonderful daugther just to discover I was dead or been locked away in a mental hospital for the rest of my life. I just couldn't take what I was perceiving. This was absolute madness. It got so bad that at the end I called 112 and asked for a doctor to come to just put me to sleep. Yes I'm not fuckin joking. I still don't understand how I managed to dial 112 on my phone and talk and explain what was happening to me. But talking to someone helped a lot because it made it possible for me to focus my mind a little.

The guy started asking me a lot of questions about DMT and all that and fuck I just wanted someone to come there and put me to sleep. I just couldn't take more. I was done. The guy told me he could not send a doctor but he could send an ambulance. I agreed 'cuse I could not take the situation any more how it was. He told me I had to wait 10-15 minutes and I panicked even more, especially when he told me police would be with them. I hanged up and then started to freak out even more. How the fuck was I going to deal with all these people and police. How the fuck was I going to survive for 10-15 more minutes, I felt there was no way I could handle it. I would break and loose it forever :( I thought about hitting my head as hard against the floor to try to knock my self out. But I just saw a lot of blood and even more problems arise with that. Then I thought about just attacking the police and hit one of them in the face so they would take me down and maybe put me to sleep with some technique they learn in the police academy.

I just couldn't believe I had put myself into this situation. I couldn't believe that state of mind existed. I live in a quiet neighborhood and I knew my neighbors would wake up if they were asleep and witness the whole thing. I just couldn't understand how this state of mind was possible. What happened. I just couldn't understand how my situation was possible. What went wrong?
I'm still surprised I managed to think all this. That I could communicate with the guy from the emergency line. The confusion was so absolute but somehow I managed within all that to do what I needed to do.

But suddenly I heard footsteps outside and someone coming up the stairs to my appartment. First came there 2 police officers. A woman and a guy. When they arrived it had been exactly 2 hours since I took the harmalas and at that point I think things started to get a little easier. I asked them to put me out but they just shook their heads. But they could in no way see my state of mind. Well they saw I was fuckt but they realized I was not dangerous. And they started to ask my endless question about what I had done. I told them everything and tried to explain. I told them I needed to be put to sleep. I couldn't take it anymore. They just asked the same questions again and again. How to spell DMT and what it was and why I did this shit to myself and where I got it and all that.
Then the ambulance came and 2 or 3 paramedics. This was so crazy. I managed to stumble downstairs and into the ambulance where they kept on asking endless questions. But they could hear I knew what I was doing. I told them about harmalas and how they can not be mixed with some pharmaceutical drugs so they wouldn't inject me with some nasty shit. At that time I knew I was safe. I wouldn't need to be put to sleep with some disgusting chemicals.
Fortunetely I live in Iceland where people are generally very nice and the police is mostly human :) In the back of the ambulance it was just me, one paramedic and the police woman. Just talking to someone made me feel so much better.

Arriving to the hospital they put a million needles in my arm for countless bloodtests. And the doctorst kept on asking questions about DMT and harmalas. None of them had heard of it. But everyone there was very curious about this stuff but mostly WHY I had done this to myself. I told them these substances could give you the ultimate lessons about life and how it pay's just to be a good person and do no harm. Be friendly. There were some extremely nice nurses there and they were very amused by what I was telling them. At that point I was feeling good, and later fantastic still tripping quite hard but the visuals had subsided. I was so energized and happy to have lived through that I just kept on talking about life the universe and everything. And how happy I was. How I had a wonderful wife and daughter and so many good people around me. I was so happy to be through that hell, and that my daughter wouldn't need to see me in a mental institution for the next 50 years looking like a total madman.

I'm a lucky fella :) And when I cry my tears are tears of joy :)

Be careful people and I hope you don't ever have to go through that hell I went through.
I'm done with psychedelics, I need no more lessons from them. From now on it's yoga and meditation for altered states of mind.
I've studied this stuff for 15 years so I can not be blamed for not doing my research. I do not regret anything but I will need to pay my neighbors a visit and explain what was going on. They are all nice people. Yes I'm surrounded with good honest souls. Thanks God for that :)

Peace!
 
I'm very happy it were total strangers that helped me out of this 'cause I wouldn't have wanted anyone I know to see me in that state. People wold have panicked and got very scared.
 
Wow man that's scary I thought 250mg was a bit too much but I did not say anything cos. I am not so experienced as others here. I wouldn't give up though cos this was just another lesson to be learned. Next time if there will be next time you will know how to do it again. I'm sure with lower dose you would not have such a terrifying experience. Enjoy your meditation now and thank you for sharing your story.
 
Well I'm already getting a bit worried that I will at some point in the future dive in again. The mistake I made yesterday was not to start low. But I didn't want to do it too low and then not have enough harmalas for another try. MAOI containing plants are regulated in Iceland so it's quite hard to get your hands on some.
I've once before had a similar experience with shrooms. Way too big dose, but that was child's play compared to what I went through last night. But after that experience with shrooms in the fall of 2004 I thought I wouldn't have to go through that again. The only thing I had to do was to leave psychedelics alone. But man did I fail :p
Well I'm not making a mistake like this again. When experimenting and doing things for the first time you should start on the low side. And don't do it alone. Have a sitter. Dumb me :p
 
Damn......

I'm sorry you had such a powerful freak out, and I hope your psychedelic free life is a good one. Also, I'm glad you're not in jail. I could see other countries automatically arresting you.

You see people, caapi can send you to hell too. Perhaps people new to this sort of thing should realize freak outs are a potential. It doesn't matter if you have a strong will, dmt breaks down ego. The most difficult place on aya or pharmahuasca is when you reach a point where no thoughts make sense. The unfiltered universe rushes through you, often viciously, and none of it makes any sense. You can't grasp your own thoughts. You don't even know what thought is, or whether you're alive or dead. It can be scary.... although I'm fairly at peace with those places now. Such moments it is important to have a sitter, or trip abortion method. Maybe we need a thread on trip abortion methods. It is also useful to have a trip abortion method if, for whatever reason, you need to stop the trip if something unexpected arises and you want to be baseline.

Emergency services won't give you a trip abortion. They'll ask you a whole bunch of questions that probably don't pertain to your situation, in order to make sure you aren't physically at risk of death, which is their main concern. Once they realize you're not dying, they'll probably ask a whole lot more questions just to get as much information as they can, or to get you to incriminate yourself. So if you're having a freakout, consider before you call emergency services on yourself. It will take them some time to get there, then they'll ask you a whole bunch of questions before doing anything, and probably won't make you feel safer either with all the hectic stressful activity. By this time, your scary episode will probably be over anyway. And since their primary concern is probably phsyical overdose, they might even just give you a bunch of charcoal and make you purge severely, which again, won't do anything for your situation. If you're merely having a psychological freakout, then emergency services won't do much for you.

Plus, calling emergency services for a psychological freakout is a waste of their time, and if someone actually is in an emergency, you may be taking away precious resources for someone who really is in danger. Plus, put yourself at risk for legal woes, which is a waste of time for the entire world, wastes legal resources, puts strain on your job, your whole life, makes you less productive and the world less productive as a whole. This could all be avoided if you simply have a sitter, or trip abortion method.

Good luck, tripper.
 
Global said:
I believe benzos are contraindicated for MAOIs apoc.
Click to expand...

whoops. Post edited. I'll inquire about trip abortion in another thread, to make sure we get it right.
 
I've always been against trip abortions but after last night I'm understand. Sometimes a way out is just what you need.
But I'm glad I did call the emergency services. I seriously needed someone there and I wouldn't have wanted any of my family or friends to witness the total madness.
It's good it was just a bunch of strangers. But I won't need this again.

Ohhh it feels good to be alive :)
 
I always keep xanax on standby when I take shrooms or acid, but I have to know that it's not a possibility when I take pharma/aya. This is unfortunate, but in those situations you really gotta wait it out. In case of a freak out when I can't take xanax, I find watching television, talking to a friend or listening to music usually more than adequate for getting through a rough part of the trip. Distracting your mind can be your best friend. I usually find it easy to turn a bad trip upside down with some good music.
 
When things were the worst I was way too messed up to turn on music. I think even if I had it ready and only needed to press play I could have messed that up :p
I still don't get how I managed to dial 112 on the phone. But as soon I started talking to someone things got a little easier.
But I should have had some easy music ready anyways. I just didn't know what I was getting myself into. Didn't prepare properly.
 
The only time SWIM has gone that deep with ruemosa, she tried calling friends and the phone made absolutely no sense and made her lose her grasp even more. Even focusing enough to realize she had to press the button to turn it on was way beyond her.
 
ragabr said:
The only time SWIM has gone that deep with ruemosa, she tried calling friends and the phone made absolutely no sense and made her lose her grasp even more. Even focusing enough to realize she had to press the button to turn it on was way beyond her.
Click to expand...

Do you remember your dose at that time?
You are very sensitive to these substances too aren't you?
 
This was before learning to weigh the dose. It was a lot of Rue, 500g if I remember correctly, boiled three times, and reduced to a solid. Some of that, and some of 150g of MHRB, treated the same way, were taken in gelcaps. At the hour mark, only minor effects were felt, so we doubled up, and about 10 seconds later it all kicked in at once and went for about 6 hours.

Very sensitive to the spice, sensitivity to harmalas tends to vary for some reason.
 
Im glad your ok man. This should be stickied for people to read. Starting low and working up is the best method for avoiding such things.
People should use sitters and for reasons just like this.

For those not using or able to find a sitter... this is exactly why working up the dose each session starting low is ideal.
Like i said, Im glad your ok but i feel like this could have been avoided had you heed the words we say so often.
 
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