Dripping e-mesh method. The definitive way?

[HardTripper]

Hi to all, i want to share my e-mesh "2.0" way to vape dmt. But first i must say that i've started to experimenting with mesh because standard vaping method caused too much issues to me. Too much variables that makes everything too much "inconsistent". Wicking, preheat/no-preheat, clogged wick etc makes every puff different from the previous one. So i've got an e-mesh atom and used the adeptus psychonautica YT video to make the setup correctly. It works and its fu***n efficient, however there are 2 main BIG problems: harsh in the throat and a very unpractical dosing method.
I've made some reasearch and solved almost immediately the harsh issue. Seems dmt vaporizes at around 150° so ive setup TC to 160°. No harsh (almost cold vapour) and even more powerful trip (seems that at 216° u burn part of the dmt).
Remember that in classic vaping method u use TC only as a protection system, as if everything works perfectly, u never reach that limit. With mesh, u use TC, instead, as a thermostat, meaning that u reach any temperature u input, even 216°, at fast as possible, and u keep that temperature stable. And i think if u vape at that temperature for all night, u'll wake the day after with a Dart Vader like voice
Now let's talk of the dosing issue. I immediately thought that dripping liquid on the emesh will certainly work so ive dripped my 1:6 liquid on the mesh. Don't remember which was the liquid weight but i know it was 0,02g dmt. TOTAL FAIL. The day after ive made a 1:1 liquid, and tried as before, with 0,02g. Result: good trip but far less efficient than solid dmt. Still a good result, maybe efficient like standard vaping. but i ve further experimented...
2:1 liquid (2 dmt, 1 PG): dripped 0,03 (0,02 dmt)... same trip as solid dmt! tried 0,04 and...reached, what i think, hyperspace!!!!
I've also noticed, but still have to experiment, that whole dmt is vaporized much earlier than reaching 10s, however u still have to inhale the vapour for all that time. I think that after 6-8s its enough to inhale without continuing pressing the button. In fact the more time passes the more heat u feel, meaning that u re only inhaling burned residues and heated mesh.
Now let's recap cons and pros of this method

PROS
Consistent results. If u dose 0,03 today, tomorrow, and the day after, u'll always get the the same power
100% efficient just like with solid dmt
No harsh
Easy dosing without even a scale, by using a 1ml syringe
No need of a fancy and hi-tech box mod with independent watt and TC settings. A standard cheap box mod with TC where u regulate only temperature it's enough (TO CONFIRM)

CONS
Still not practical as a liquid filled atom
Need a good amount of dmt for making the liquid. I've used a 3ml syringe to make a 0,80 dmt 0,40 pg liquid but its quite hard. u can't make such low amount in a 10ml vial because it will stick on the walls and dont get even a drop from it. While mixing in a 1ml syringe its impossible. An easily pullable liquid (by a 1ml syringe) should be, i think at least 3ml (3-4g dmt?). However i think this is not an issue for most people here, as 1:1 liquid isnt so rare. I was used, instead, to a 1:6

Let me know what do u think of this, and i hope i'll be promoted, finally, to standard user

 

[Loveall]

You are adding e liquid directly on the mesh (no cotton)? Doesn't that cause it to splatter?

 

[HardTripper]

You are adding e liquid directly on the mesh (no cotton)? Doesn't that cause it to splatter?

no cotton. u drop on the mesh. 2 drops are enough to breakthrough

 

[CloudyDays]

Can you say a bit more about the liquid dosing method? Is the main advantage that you don’t need a scale?

I am using a GeekVape Mini for my mod box and the temperature control seems very inconsistent. Is your mesh stainless steel? Any tips for consistent temperature control?

 

[HardTripper]

Can you say a bit more about the liquid dosing method? Is the main advantage that you don’t need a scale?

I am using a GeekVape Mini for my mod box and the temperature control seems very inconsistent. Is your mesh stainless steel? Any tips for consistent temperature control?

yes basically its the main advantage, but for me its a HUGE advantage. i cant imagine dosing between trips such small amounts, using a microscopic spoon...
i use SS316L mesh but i dont think a consistent TC matter. even in a case your mod "floats" temperature between 150 and 170 (while setup at 160), it will work anyway. consider a drop vapourizes in maybe 5s, 2 drops in about 8s. The only important thing its to not going too high otherwise ull burn dmt and get harsh.

 

[The Sofa Traveler]

Hi there

Remember that in classic vaping method u use TC only as a protection system, as if everything works perfectly, u never reach that limit. With mesh, u use TC, instead, as a thermostat, meaning that u reach any temperature u input, even 216°, at fast as possible, and u keep that temperature stable.

What do you mean exactly ? Not sure to understand. TC works the same way either with mesh or other type of coils : reaching - without exceeding - a defined temperature through an algorithm that relies on impedance variations from the used metal type. I'm using the e-juice method since 5/6 years, and for a long time I was convinced that TC was THE ultimate way but after many setbacks I finally changed vaping mode and I will not go back to the TC. The TC is too random and not regular enough in the results, too many things impact rendering : coil temperature calibration, dust on the 510 pin, different behaviours from one machine to another, etc. I had some success but also many coil clogs, browning liquids due to calcination, etc. Anyway, this was the past.
From now on I use a mode called VPC (Voltage Power Curve) on my Aegis S100. It allows to set a voltage cluster second by second for 5 seconds. Typically, the curve is a decreasing one, starting at the highest value (to heat quickly) then decreasing values (to maintain the reached temperature without exceeding it). Since I started using this method I haven't had any problems. With the actual coil I already vaped like 6ml of DMT juice without clogging, without burning spice, without browning liquid, without any problem actually and a regular efficiency. I placed this coil in june 2022, and I still use it...
I'm happy for you that you found a method that works fine though it's a shame to loose the traditionnal e-juice method convenience. I think that the traditionnal "e-juice in a tank" method works pretty fine once you have the right equipment, using the right mode with the right settings. IMHO, the VPC curve is currently THE perfect mode for vaping DMT e-juice and it's also much easier to tune for those who begin in the world of vape, compared to the messy TC mode.
Have a nice day

 

[HardTripper]

Hi there

Remember that in classic vaping method u use TC only as a protection system, as if everything works perfectly, u never reach that limit. With mesh, u use TC, instead, as a thermostat, meaning that u reach any temperature u input, even 216°, at fast as possible, and u keep that temperature stable.

What do you mean exactly ? Not sure to understand. TC works the same way either with mesh or other type of coils : reaching - without exceeding - a defined temperature through an algorithm that relies on impedance variations from the used metal type. I'm using the e-juice method since 5/6 years, and for a long time I was convinced that TC was THE ultimate way but after many setbacks I finally changed vaping mode and I will not go back to the TC. The TC is too random and not regular enough in the results, too many things impact rendering : coil temperature calibration, dust on the 510 pin, different behaviours from one machine to another, etc. I had some success but also many coil clogs, browning liquids due to calcination, etc. Anyway, this was the past.
From now on I use a mode called VPC (Voltage Power Curve) on my Aegis S100. It allows to set a voltage cluster second by second for 5 seconds. Typically, the curve is a decreasing one, starting at the highest value (to heat quickly) then decreasing values (to maintain the reached temperature without exceeding it). Since I started using this method I haven't had any problems. With the actual coil I already vaped like 6ml of DMT juice without clogging, without burning spice, without browning liquid, without any problem actually and a regular efficiency. I placed this coil in june 2022, and I still use it...
I'm happy for you that you found a method that works fine though it's a shame to loose the traditionnal e-juice method convenience. I think that the traditionnal "e-juice in a tank" method works pretty fine once you have the right equipment, using the right mode with the right settings. IMHO, the VPC curve is currently THE perfect mode for vaping DMT e-juice and it's also much easier to tune for those who begin in the world of vape, compared to the messy TC mode.
Have a nice day

in standard dmt vaping usually the "advanced TC mode" is used. Where u setup a fixed temp and then regulate power as in power mode. in this case u setup TC maybe 20°C above the "operative temperature" (190 usually) and its purpose its only to protect against dry hits. So in ideal conditions u never reach that limit.

Your method doesnt seem easy to setup. That curve needs certainly some (many) calculations, and still have many variables. Wicking isnt for everyone (not for me) and results arent always the same. If u find the correct mesh lenght then u can use a centimeter to cut it, and ull get ALWAYS the same result.U cant say the same with cotton. I call these things "digital" and "analogue". Mesh is digital: 1 will be always 1. Standard vaping is analogue: 1 can be 0,87 as well as 1,09. Hope u understood what i mean

 

[The Sofa Traveler]

in standard dmt vaping usually the "advanced TC mode" is used. Where u setup a fixed temp and then regulate power as in power mode. in this case u setup TC maybe 20°C above the "operative temperature" (190 usually) and its purpose its only to protect against dry hits. So in ideal conditions u never reach that limit.

Just a clarification : English is not my mother tongue, so sometimes I could express myself badly or misunderstand. What I meant is that in any case, whether we are talking mesh method or juice method, TC works the same way with the same technologic background. TC has not only for purpose to avoid the dry hit (this is indeed the initial purpose for nicotine vapers), it also allows the coil to reach a defined temperature and not exceeding it (that's what spice juice vapers look for). It's simply how it works, whatever the goal. When I used TC with DMT juice it was not to avoid a dry hit but to reach a desired temperature without exceeding it, to avoid the juice burning because of overheating. As a daily nicotine vaper I never used TC for the nicotine dry hit avoiding purpose.

Your method doesnt seem easy to setup. That curve needs certainly some (many) calculations

Absolutely no calculation, very easy to setup, especially for vape beginners as they don't have to care about the type of metal they're using, the coil calibration or TCR adjustment (+ random behaviours because of dirty pin connectors that distort the calculation). It works exactly the same way as a basic power mode (no algorithm calculating a temp according to impedance) except that you can define a power curve to be more accurate in the rendering and the power provided. You just have to know the recommended power range of the coil - usually written on it - and trying settings from this information, with values a little below of the recommended one as DMT juice puffs are usually quite longer than traditionnal nicotine puffs. It's very easy to practice with a blank juice until you find the right settings. And, once found, it works flawlessly, without the randomness and whims of the TC, and you'll just have to adjust the whole power cluster one or a few watts up or down if you want to modulate the puffs efficiency. I would say about VPC mode that it's somewhere between TC mode (but without it's instabilities) and power/watts mode (but more accurate). In any case, especially for those who are total noobs in vape world, there is a learning curve, with e-cig things seem easy theoretically but in practice it's more tricky than just "load-press-puff". Nobody gets the perfect result the first time and forever It takes a little practice and adjustments before finding the "sweet spot", regardless of the mode or method used.
Anyway, glad you found a method that brings you satisfaction, all experiments bring new tools in the box.

Peace.

 

[HardTripper]

in standard dmt vaping usually the "advanced TC mode" is used. Where u setup a fixed temp and then regulate power as in power mode. in this case u setup TC maybe 20°C above the "operative temperature" (190 usually) and its purpose its only to protect against dry hits. So in ideal conditions u never reach that limit.

Just a clarification : English is not my mother tongue, so sometimes I could express myself badly or misunderstand. What I meant is that in any case, whether we are talking mesh method or juice method, TC works the same way with the same technologic background. TC has not only for purpose to avoid the dry hit (this is indeed the initial purpose for nicotine vapers), it also allows the coil to reach a defined temperature and not exceeding it (that's what spice juice vapers look for). It's simply how it works, whatever the goal. When I used TC with DMT juice it was not to avoid a dry hit but to reach a desired temperature without exceeding it, to avoid the juice burning because of overheating. As a daily nicotine vaper I never used TC for the nicotine dry hit avoiding purpose.

Your method doesnt seem easy to setup. That curve needs certainly some (many) calculations

Absolutely no calculation, very easy to setup, especially for vape beginners as they don't have to care about the type of metal they're using, the coil calibration or TCR adjustment (+ random behaviours because of dirty pin connectors that distort the calculation). It works exactly the same way as a basic power mode (no algorithm calculating a temp according to impedance) except that you can define a power curve to be more accurate in the rendering and the power provided. You just have to know the recommended power range of the coil - usually written on it - and trying settings from this information, with values a little below of the recommended one as DMT juice puffs are usually quite longer than traditionnal nicotine puffs. It's very easy to practice with a blank juice until you find the right settings. And, once found, it works flawlessly, without the randomness and whims of the TC, and you'll just have to adjust the whole power cluster one or a few watts up or down if you want to modulate the puffs efficiency. I would say about VPC mode that it's somewhere between TC mode (but without it's instabilities) and power/watts mode (but more accurate). In any case, especially for those who are total noobs in vape world, there is a learning curve, with e-cig things seem easy theoretically but in practice it's more tricky than just "load-press-puff". Nobody gets the perfect result the first time and forever It takes a little practice and adjustments before finding the "sweet spot", regardless of the mode or method used.
Anyway, glad you found a method that brings you satisfaction, all experiments bring new tools in the box.

Peace.

i understood well what u said but i say, again, that u re talking of classic TC mode, availale on all box mods. im talking of this, instead:

9:52m

Sorry i dont know how to split quoted parts so i divide them by a line

I had no problems with TC. i had problems mainly with wicking and clogged wick. I used 1:6 liquid while people suggested to raise it to much more. Problem is, if u wick badly, u have to throw cotton and most of the liquid present in the atom as it will stuck between walls. The more concentration, the more losses. so i sticked with 1:6. Now, problem with this concentration is that if u dont preheat then, even at 35w 10s ull get a very light trip. Preheating on the other side burns cotton fastly. Either concentrations has its pros and cons, while both has a lot of losses... not mentioning classic vaping isnt efficient, so its another loss...

 

[CloudyDays]

HardTripper, I wonder if the PG is perhaps stabilizing the temperature of the mesh. For instance, even if your TC is flaky, and the mesh wants to go to 220 C, it can’t until the PG has boiled off. During this boiling period, the local mesh temperature is fixed at 188 C, the boiling point of PG. That gives the DMT time to vaporize rather than burn.

What do you think?

 

[The Sofa Traveler]

Well HardTripper, what I see on the video is a TC mode, nothing else. I used to use the TC mode with the same mod (Aegis). The main difference is that we are talking of different use/settings of TC, RDA vs tank+prebuilt coils (or RTA). In the video the max temp is conditionned by the wattage setting, not the defined temp, which won't be reached anyway due to the low wattage. TC in the video is used to avoid the dry hit. The max temp is reached/defined by the 25 watts. Exactly same result could be achieved by just setting the mod in power mode at 25w, you just don't have the dry hit protection anymore. Indeed, dry hit avoiding is essential with RDA, it's less a concern with a filled tank or RTA, as you can regularly refill before the tank becomes empty. With a filled tank, the main TC aim (for DMT vape) is to reach and maintain the desired temp without exceeding it. The exact opposite of what you say :

Remember that in classic vaping method u use TC only as a protection system, as if everything works perfectly, u never reach that limit. With mesh, u use TC, instead, as a thermostat, meaning that u reach any temperature u input

In the video the aim of the TC is to avoid the dry hit, and works as thermostat only in this case. The max temp is not regulated by the TC algorithm, it's the max temp you can reach with 25 watts. TC works as thermostat ONLY once you reached the settled temp. This never happens in the video, it's even written : "Temperature won't be reached. Mod will try by continuously pumping the max wattage in the coil". So, no, you don't necessarly reach any temperature you input, you only reach the temperature you input if the power (watts) you provide is enough to reach that temperature, whether we are talking about RDA, RTA or prebuild coils.
What I wanted to point out is that TC can totally be used as thermostat to regulate a defined temp with classic tank use. It's all about the settings, not about RDA vs something else. With a low wattage and high defined temp you'll never reach the defined temp except in dry hit situation. At the opposite, with higher wattage and/or lower defined temp, temp will be reached, maintained and never exceeded, in one word : regulated. Also, the higher the wattage is (whithin the acceptable limit of the coil), the faster the desired temp is reached then regulated. That's what I did during about 4 years before I switched to VPC mode, with various tanks (but not rebuildable), mods, coils, juice concentrations, PG/VG ratios, settings... It's a question of required watts vs defined temp ratio basically. Still TC in any case. This is true with RDA, RTA, any coil. So I maintain, there are no different TC modes, there is just one TC mode in the mods (if we discard TCR, which is only a fine tune TC) that you can settle differently depending on the researched goal (dry hit avoiding or dry hit avoiding + temp regulation).

P.S. : to quote only a part of a text, you can copy the part of the text you want and insert it between quote tags.

 

[downwardsfromzero]

HardTripper, I wonder if the PG is perhaps stabilizing the temperature of the mesh. For instance, even if your TC is flaky, and the mesh wants to go to 220 C, it can’t until the PG has boiled off. During this boiling period, the local mesh temperature is fixed at 188 C, the boiling point of PG. That gives the DMT time to vaporize rather than burn.

What do you think?

It's lower than 188°C, even - the atomization of PG occurs as adsorbed water flash vaporizes at somewhere between 100 and 188°C. The force of expanding steam carries tiny droplets of PG with it and the DMT gets carried while still in solution in these droplets.

PG juice seems like a pretty good option overall - just beware of MGO formation. At least with this method you'll not be puffing away at it all day, every day.

 

[CloudyDays]

PG juice seems like a pretty good option overall - just beware of MGO formation.

What is MGO?

I tried dripping one drop of PG onto my SS 150 mesh but about half of it fell through before I could hit the fire button. Perhaps a finer mesh is needed. Or I need to try spreading the drop over a larger area.

 

[HardTripper]

HardTripper, I wonder if the PG is perhaps stabilizing the temperature of the mesh. For instance, even if your TC is flaky, and the mesh wants to go to 220 C, it can’t until the PG has boiled off. During this boiling period, the local mesh temperature is fixed at 188 C, the boiling point of PG. That gives the DMT time to vaporize rather than burn.

What do you think?

1) the mesh isnt completely covered by the liquid
2) as i said above, u vaporize everything much earlier, meaning that last puff seconds will be at full heat and harsh will be at its max
3) we are confusing solid dmt with liquid. i said that with solid dmt u burn it (maybe) at 216°. didnt said the same happens once mixed with PG. fact is both solid and liquid performs better at 160°

 

[HardTripper]

Well HardTripper, what I see on the video is a TC mode, nothing else. I used to use the TC mode with the same mod (Aegis). The main difference is that we are talking of different use/settings of TC, RDA vs tank+prebuilt coils (or RTA). In the video the max temp is conditionned by the wattage setting, not the defined temp, which won't be reached anyway due to the low wattage. TC in the video is used to avoid the dry hit. The max temp is reached/defined by the 25 watts. Exactly same result could be achieved by just setting the mod in power mode at 25w, you just don't have the dry hit protection anymore. Indeed, dry hit avoiding is essential with RDA, it's less a concern with a filled tank or RTA, as you can regularly refill before the tank becomes empty. With a filled tank, the main TC aim (for DMT vape) is to reach and maintain the desired temp without exceeding it. The exact opposite of what you say :

Remember that in classic vaping method u use TC only as a protection system, as if everything works perfectly, u never reach that limit. With mesh, u use TC, instead, as a thermostat, meaning that u reach any temperature u input

In the video the aim of the TC is to avoid the dry hit, and works as thermostat only in this case. The max temp is not regulated by the TC algorithm, it's the max temp you can reach with 25 watts. TC works as thermostat ONLY once you reached the settled temp. This never happens in the video, it's even written : "Temperature won't be reached. Mod will try by continuously pumping the max wattage in the coil". So, no, you don't necessarly reach any temperature you input, you only reach the temperature you input if the power (watts) you provide is enough to reach that temperature, whether we are talking about RDA, RTA or prebuild coils.
What I wanted to point out is that TC can totally be used as thermostat to regulate a defined temp with classic tank use. It's all about the settings, not about RDA vs something else. With a low wattage and high defined temp you'll never reach the defined temp except in dry hit situation. At the opposite, with higher wattage and/or lower defined temp, temp will be reached, maintained and never exceeded, in one word : regulated. Also, the higher the wattage is (whithin the acceptable limit of the coil), the faster the desired temp is reached then regulated. That's what I did during about 4 years before I switched to VPC mode, with various tanks (but not rebuildable), mods, coils, juice concentrations, PG/VG ratios, settings... It's a question of required watts vs defined temp ratio basically. Still TC in any case. This is true with RDA, RTA, any coil. So I maintain, there are no different TC modes, there is just one TC mode in the mods (if we discard TCR, which is only a fine tune TC) that you can settle differently depending on the researched goal (dry hit avoiding or dry hit avoiding + temp regulation).

P.S. : to quote only a part of a text, you can copy the part of the text you want and insert it between quote tags.

ehm i think u misunderstood or i explained badly. For "classic vaping method" i intended TC set at 216° and then regulated with watts. In this mode u never reach 216° unless dry hit. So its the same i already said and u just repeated above. Dunno what is "the opposite" i said instead...

 

[HardTripper]

I tried dripping one drop of PG onto my SS 150 mesh but about half of it fell through before I could hit the fire button. Perhaps a finer mesh is needed. Or I need to try spreading the drop over a larger area.

Well, PG alone is very liquid. DMT makes it more dense/sticky (even if its still more liquid than u can imagine). I think 2:1 dmt pg is comparable to 70/30 pg/vg. And yes, a finer mesh can absolutely help. I have 200 right now, but i think 100 will be a lot better