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Drug induced numbness?

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jbark

jbark

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So... I had a fairly decadent and very fun few days this weekend past, and was intoduced to 3 new substances that had previously not interested me in the slightest (trip report forthcoming!). There were 9 of us in a secluded hilltop chalet, and we began with mdma, with some progressing to ketamine and all indulging in nitrous balloons. Strange, ecstatic, visionary - I will leave further elaboration to the travelogue...

I took a total of 2.5 mdma pills, line after line of ketamine (sublingually/under the gums - i hate putting things in my sinuses), launching the experience with countless balloons over a period of 7-8 hours. The next day was kickstarted early with 20g of weak cactus resin, followed by more K and more balloons (probably a total of 30-40 over the course of the 2 nights.)

2 days later a slight numbness was experienced in the lower lip which, over several days spread to the rest of the lower lip, a third of the upper lip, my tongue, teeth & gums & cheek (on the side of the lips). It is not a total numbness, but i would say i have lost a quarter to a half of the feeling... It is not unlike several hours after a trip to the dental surgeon, but persistent. It has been a week now, and I believe the spreading has ceased and it is subsiding, but i may just be growing accustomed to it...

So has anyone ever experienced similar symptoms with these substances? Or with others? Is it perhaps the oral administration of the K, which is, i am well aware, an anaesthetic? Likewise the nitrous? Any advice? I am going to wait a few days before seeking medical attention (admitting my activities to my physician won't be an easy pill to swallow (yes, yes, pun intended, as always...:roll: ))

Thanks in advance for any advice/reproaches/kind words/reassurance/panic8)

JBArk the facially handicapped
 
Shit J, really? I feel responsible for this. With all the experience I have with the combo, I've never heard of this, except for extremities numbness in much more prolonged cases of abuse, but it doesn't sound like something as precisely localized as you describe. I wish I had more to tell you. Don't let 'telling the doctor' stop you though, that's what they're there for. They see smokers and twinkie eaters, we just get our pleasures elsewhere :) Keep me posted of course.
 
From your description Im wondering if you also rubbed some on your gums directly-although, strictly speaking you dont need to if you use enough of the K purely sublingually.

Couple of questions:

Which part of your lower lip went numb first-one side or the whole of it?

Any numbness over your upper gums?

Any alteration in taste over the anterior 2/3 of the tongue?

Any excessive dryness of the mouth?

Any numbness over your lower jaw?
 
Ah, good lead, the k-rubbing, that's the only element in consumption that's different from all the other people.
 
Shayku - don't be silly! Of course you are not responsible! I am a grown man ( well, grown does not infer mature!) and i wanted more than anything to have th experience. I even left you oit of the original post so you wouldn't feel blamed (but now you've blown your cover!) besides, let's not be too alarmist, i am sure it's nothing...

Corpus callosum, the entire K dose was between gum and lip, i used the word sublingual for (ironically!) clarity. I should remention that the numbness began 2 days later...

To answer your questions:

- the left side lower lip first, then further in to half way, then tip of the tongue and upper lip, gums teeth and finally cheek...

- yes upper and lower gums

- no appreciable loss of taste anywhere on the tongue

- dry paleete

- very slight numbness of flesh over jaw - all symptoms on left side of my face

I should mention i also have a minor cold and, despite the MoA of the K, swollen and runny sinuses (all surely unrelated...)

Corpus callosum - very specific questions, leads me to believe you have experienced this and/or know what it is... Feel free to throw out a diagnosis with the reassurance that any medical advice i am given over the wires will be corroborated with a face to face health care practitioner before being followed... No offence meant either, of course:)

Thanks,

JBArk the cautious cliff jumper
 
No offence taken!:d

For an accurate diagnosis, a couple of other points, if I may?

When you say your cheek I assume you mean inside the mouth?

Can I get you to run your fingers lightly over your temples on both sides and see if there is any difference in how it feels-even if its slight.

Lastly, run you fingers over both of your ears, as you did at your temples, and again see if there is any difference.

Isnt neurology just so fuckin fascinating!!!!:lol:
 
Corpus callosum - by cheek i mean exterior and interior. My left temple is slightly numb, but i only noticed after conducting your test. Likewise with left ear, although so slight as to be possibly imagined...

Are you a neurologist? Don't feel compelled to answer, just ignore my question if it exceeds your comfort level! Btw, just to clarify, i have no patience for hypochondriacs, and while i often want patience for myself it is never due to that most malodious of afflictions.

JBArk the hyper-country-act
 
I think you have absorbed a fair amount of K mainly through your lower gum (but a bit through the upper, and I think you favor the left side of your mouth much more than the right side);as a result you have stunned the posterior trunk of your left mandibular division of the trigeminal nerve.This explains the numb lower lip and jaw sensation (inferior alveolar nerve) and adjacent gum (lingual nerve-this also accounts for the dry mouth).The mandibular division of the trigeminal nerve also has an auriculotemporal branch (explains the temple and ear sensory changes and to a lesser degree the dry mouth).

The upper gum/lip and adjacent palatal sensory loss suggests the superior dental plexus made of the 3 alveolar nerves emanating from the maxillary division of the trigeminal nerve-you may also find that the inside of your nose and left lower eyelid may feel a little odd too.

Thats the anatomy side of your woes.

Its been shown that the combination of ketamine and nitrous oxide taken together can have neurotoxic properties on the cerebral cortical neurones in rats-hence its not a combination I would recommend although human studies have not been done.


My advice is to bide your time before exposing your deviancy (8) ) to your doctor.Ketamine has been used in certain ailments as a topical prep (complex regional pain syndromes) and is very effective and does ease the pain but not as a permanent neurotoxic effect.


If your symptoms are not progressing I would wait awhile.

If you do see your doctor I dare you to go into his/her office and say 'Doctor, I fear I have stunned the.......' spiel as above.They will either be amazed if they know there neuroanatomy;alternatively they will think your a fucking armchair quack tosser (which we all here know you are not!:d
 
"Its been shown that the combination of ketamine and nitrous oxide taken together can have neurotoxic properties on the cerebral cortical neurones in rats-hence its not a combination I would recommend although human studies have not been done."

Really? Do you have a link to the study by any chance? Not that I doubt you, but the combination has also been shown to be amazingly potent in humans, in terms of pleasure AND psychonautic potential :) But I'm sure something that good can't be that good, and I don't want to hide from the facts...
 
corpus callosum said:
I think you have absorbed a fair amount of K mainly through your lower gum (but a bit through the upper, and I think you favor the left side of your mouth much more than the right side);as a result you have stunned the posterior trunk of your left mandibular division of the trigeminal nerve.This explains the numb lower lip and jaw sensation (inferior alveolar nerve) and adjacent gum (lingual nerve-this also accounts for the dry mouth).The mandibular division of the trigeminal nerve also has an auriculotemporal branch (explains the temple and ear sensory changes and to a lesser degree the dry mouth).

The upper gum/lip and adjacent palatal sensory loss suggests the superior dental plexus made of the 3 alveolar nerves emanating from the maxillary division of the trigeminal nerve-you may also find that the inside of your nose and left lower eyelid may feel a little odd too.

Thats the anatomy side of your woes.

Its been shown that the combination of ketamine and nitrous oxide taken together can have neurotoxic properties on the cerebral cortical neurones in rats-hence its not a combination I would recommend although human studies have not been done.


My advice is to bide your time before exposing your deviancy (8) ) to your doctor.Ketamine has been used in certain ailments as a topical prep (complex regional pain syndromes) and is very effective and does ease the pain but not as a permanent neurotoxic effect.


If your symptoms are not progressing I would wait awhile.

If you do see your doctor I dare you to go into his/her office and say 'Doctor, I fear I have stunned the.......' spiel as above.They will either be amazed if they know there neuroanatomy;alternatively they will think your a fucking armchair quack tosser (which we all here know you are not!:d
Click to expand...


thanks again CC!!

The sensation is returning slowly every day!! I was not relishing the "full disclosure" visit to my physician, for obvious reasons...! Sounds like a reliable diagnosis, and it would make sense as this is one of the major nerves they "seal" before dental surgery (I believe). That was my first, but likely not last, of those decadent evenings, so i kind of want to get to the bottom of it. My theory is that the K and other substances were a teeth grinding mixture. I have one cap that is higher than the rest of the teeth, and perhaps the grinding forced the tooth lower and and into the mandible, pinching or irritating the nerve (i ground during the experience, and at least through the night of sleep, perhaps through the next night also...). This (in my limited dental/medical knowledge), might account for the 1-2 day delay, whereas if it were the gum-administered K, I would tend to expect a more immediate loss of sensation.

I must try the experiment again to prove my hypothesis (who says the scientific method can't be fun:wink: !

And for the kiddies at out there reading this, JBArk is a strained confessional and these activities should not be attempted at home, except by sprained regressionals in a safe and contrived environment.

JBArk the EVOL Kneivel
 
This could likely be due to a B vitamin deficiency (B12 I think). Nitrous oxide often causes B vitamin deficiencies, especially when used often. Some chronic users have gotten so bad that they have trouble walking. Because B vitamins function primarily on the nervous system, deficiency causes numbness.

I would go to a pharmacy, supermarket, or vitamin and get a high potency B-Complex as soon as possible.
 
spiced_ham said:
This could likely be due to a B vitamin deficiency (B12 I think). Nitrous oxide often causes B vitamin deficiencies, especially when used often. Some chronic users have gotten so bad that they have trouble walking. Because B vitamins function primarily on the nervous system, deficiency causes numbness.

I would go to a pharmacy, supermarket, or vitamin and get a high potency B-Complex as soon as possible.
Click to expand...
This is what I thought, honestly. Always take B12 supplements before or after a nitrous binge. Especially a two day one, nitrous has cumulative effects. I dunno if K could've affected the nitrous in away way, I'm not too familiar with it.
 
Yep ,nitrous can cause B12 deficiency but only in such an acute fashion as Jbark experienced if his body stores were pretty low to start with.B12 deficiency can cause a peripheral neuropathy (hands and feet) and also damages certain tracts in the spinal cord.It would be most unusual to produce such localised damage to a branch of the trigeminal nerve so rapidly.I think Jbarks woes, especially in light of the delay in the onset of symptoms, suggests a synergistic effect of topical ketamine and inhaled nitrous.
 
I talk with my doctor about DMT and all kinds of things fairly regularly.

The only thing I don't seem able to do is to convince him that trying DMT would be a good thing for him.

With that said I am glad that we have a very interesting mix of people around here on the Nexus.

Thanks for your insight Corpus Callosum.
 
corpus callosum said:
Yep ,nitrous can cause B12 deficiency but only in such an acute fashion as Jbark experienced if his body stores were pretty low to start with.B12 deficiency can cause a peripheral neuropathy (hands and feet) and also damages certain tracts in the spinal cord.It would be most unusual to produce such localised damage to a branch of the trigeminal nerve so rapidly.I think Jbarks woes, especially in light of the delay in the onset of symptoms, suggests a synergistic effect of topical ketamine and inhaled nitrous.
Click to expand...


Exactly what i thought. Get some B complex and good diet. Sleep well im sure it will clear up.
 
Thanks everyone. we all downed a few B12 and B6 supplements during the weekend in question, in addition to eating oysters - which I hate, but ate on the advice of others; it's a miracle I held them down...:oops:

Face and gums and tongueis pretty much 100% back to normal, 10 days later. If anything else crops up, I'll post here.

JBArk
 
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