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E-cigs as a launchpad!

Migrated topic.
soulman

soulman

Rising Star
Hey Guys,

Been away for a while, and came across an idea that SWIM would appreciate some input from the knowledgable bright minds who frequent this virtual space.

Anyway, as the title suggests, SWIM thought about the possibility of using an e-cigarette for Dimensional Mind Travel, but needed to ask a few things before.
There is a post already on here regarding this, but the information is minimal and the purpose of this is to collate ideas about how to do this safely and efficiently.

So, e-cigarettes, vaporise liquid nicotine in a carrier of either propyl glycol, vegetable glycerine or a combination of both. There is a bit of contention about the safety of inhaling these carrier solutions, but that is not purpose of this discussion.
Since the e-cig boom, companies have also developed the option to buy refillable cartridges, so you can just refill the empty cartridge with nicotine liquids available online. They also offer a variety of flavours, and for the more adventurous people, you can just buy the carrier solutions and make your own flavours.
So as a natural progression of thoughts, SWIM wondered what other "things" you may be able to feasibly infuse/dissolve in the carrier solutions.

A quick search online revealed this idea had already been implemented for THC use quite successfully

forum.grasscity.com

Propylene Glycol THC Tincture Recipe by me

Yo whats up long time lurker first time poster hi my name is Will Tokin' & Smokin' , Wakin' & Bakein for over 15 years anyway id like to share a...
forum.grasscity.com forum.grasscity.com


SWIM knows THC is lipid soluble, so this works.
Buuuuut, this is where SWIMs chemistry knowledge fails him.
Is dmt soluble in either propyl glycol or vegetable gylcerine?
If not, is there a way to getting it into a vaporisable safe solution?

Any simply explained chemistry steps here would be greatly appreciated as in theory, SWIM feels this has great potential.

And whilst on the topic, although perhaps a little ahead of one-self, if anyone can offer ideas and suggestions that would make the above successful, does anyone think there is potential to take it one step further and add some harmalas into the mix to make a vapable pharmahuasca?

SWIM is excited about the prospect of this, but just needs a little help from his nexus friends :)
 
Search a bit around the forum, there are several threads on e-cigs (just type e-cig in the subject area of the search function).

DMT is very soluble in PG (no idea about how much DMT an ml of PG can hold, but I can confirm that DMT is readily soluble in plain PG).
 
Oh yeah, my bad. Thanks. I found some nice info using the search.
I just thought it would be nice to see a collection of tried and tested techniques, recipies, ratios, addition of MAOIs etc etc.

Shall keep checking and add any individual progress 😉
 
soulman said:
I just thought it would be nice to see a collection of tried and tested techniques, recipies, ratios, addition of MAOIs etc etc.
Click to expand...
Agreed, there is a good amount of info to be found but it is scattered and a lot of the opinion is contradictory, while no discernible or singular method has been fully agreed upon.

When it comes to e-cigs there are a lot of variables, voltage being the main one.
 
ZenSpice said:
soulman said:
I just thought it would be nice to see a collection of tried and tested techniques, recipies, ratios, addition of MAOIs etc etc.
Click to expand...
Agreed, there is a good amount of info to be found but it is scattered and a lot of the opinion is contradictory, while no discernible or singular method has been fully agreed upon.

When it comes to e-cigs there are a lot of variables, voltage being the main one.
Click to expand...


Yeah exactly man. There is plenty of mixed reviews and what seems like a potentially excellent method, seems to have many confusing elements, especially to those uninitiated in e-cig jargon.
Atomisers, cartomisers, variable voltages, wicks, double coils, bottom coils etc etc.

This is a topic that has obviously generated alot of interest. Some people claim to have achieved desired results, whilst others seem more disheartened.

I think it would be nice to perhaps get a beginners guide with all jargon explained with perhaps guides as to how to achieve anyones success stories, recipes, do's and don'ts etc after all, thats what the nexus is all about....sharing experiences to help evolve a process. :roll:

Sooo if anyone in the know wants to get the ball rolling, that would be great.......if not, I guess I shall post any useful information i come across during ones own explorations.
 
Great idea.. all the different terms and options when it comes to e-cigs is a little overwhelming at first. I'd love to help out, but I'm far from an experienced e-cig user, so it's all still new to me as well. However I love the idea of a portable, classy looking spice vaporizor so I'm determined to find something that works for me=)

My experience with this so far has been with the Joye Ego-T (tank) as per this thread:
Ecig Method for Vaping DMT summarized - best thing since...

First I tried the low resistance atomizer suggested and found that it tasted really bad like burnt dmt. So I figured the temperature was just too high (Low Resistance = more current = higher temp). So I switched back to the standard Ego-T atomizer. The taste was much more pleasant. I could definitely tolerate it more. I still found that I had to regulate how long I held the button while inhaling or it would take on that burnt taste.. I would press the button and periodically release it so that it wasn't on for more than maybe 2 seconds at a time.

I never managed to get a high dose via this method, subtle closed eye visuals only, but it was enjoyable for low doses pre or post yoga/meditation. My wife on the other-hand, couldn't stand getting only threshold effects and body sensations.

I decided that I needed more control over the temperature of the device, so I ordered a VAMO V2 because it features variable wattage and voltage. I should be able to find the sweet spot with that sort of control. I'm probably going to use that in addition to a simple drip tip so I can just drop a number of drops directly on the coils. I don't fully trust the tank system yet so I want to start minimalist and work up to adding on a tank or cartomizer or clearomizer.

I'll report back with whatever I find once I get a chance to play around with it:)
 
I have a variable voltage (3.0-5.0) iTaste VV V3.0 and am going to get some PG from here sometime in July.

I will spare some spice to try a project with a couple of different types of adapters/chambers I have to see if I can get any decent results.

My initial thinking is that the carrier should be pure PG and I need to check on the safety aspect of this as most mixes are at tops 80% PG with a VG blend (way I see it this may be as a thickener of types but I want to minimise the carrier in order to maximise the solubility of the spice per ml of carrier required.

I will also post what happens, fail or no fail, and try to offer a decent bit of info on all aspects. Perhaps we can end up merging a few threads and if any success is found bring forth a new method for vaping that is portable, discreet and easy to share for those occasional times when one wants to blast off with a fellow journeyer :thumb_up: :thumb_up: :thumb_up:
 
Ah this is encouraging guys.
Yes, we need to collate and share our successes, as like ive already said, with the right recipe /ratio of ingredients, I feel this has great potential.
I plan you use either a vapable or oral MAOI to get more bang for my buck so to speak.

OK, so these are some questions that have been rolling around my mind before i try anything.

1. What is the best carrier solution to dissolve DMT in? Some have said normal e-liquid is fine, others say pure propyl glycol and others say 50/50 PG and VG!

2. Do you think the purity of the spice is a factor?..i.e, the majority of SWIMS spice has a yellow tint. I believe these are plant fats and other alkaloids pulled from the bark.....but what are other peoples experiences with this? My main concern is that these other products may gunk up the tank or make it harder to vape the spice!!! Would it be better to try and use pure white spice?

3. Power or more specifically temperature. People talk of variable voltages on their batteries. Does this equate to a variable temperature? Some people have reported e-cigs being too hot and burning the product leaving a horrible taste, where as others have claimed that they don't get hot enough to produce adequate vapour required for a good enough hit!! Is it necessary to get a variable voltage battery or a dual coil?

4. Coils, see above...also i read that DMT runs away from the heat, so its necessary to get a bottom coil?....also, whilst talking about coils, i hear people saying it is best to apply the spice directly to the coil. This confuses me. I have one of these....

How do you apply DMT to the coil as opposed to just putting solution in the tank? Do you have to start dismantling things?
What are peoples experiences with any of these methods?

I think if we can get a general consensus on these questions then we should be well on the way to a beautiful thing.

I would obviously love to hear from people who can provide insight to any of the questions above, or any questions that I havent asked yet....but if not, I shall endeavour to answer these in time and shall share any useful information for my fellow curious travellers :thumb_up: :d
 
soulman said:
I plan you use either a vapable or oral MAOI to get more bang for my buck so to speak.
Click to expand...
Good idea. Once I get it all sussed I may add Rue tea into the final attempt.

soulman said:
OK, so these are some questions that have been rolling around my mind before i try anything.

1. What is the best carrier solution to dissolve DMT in? Some have said normal e-liquid is fine, others say pure propyl glycol and others say 50/50 PG and VG!
Click to expand...
From what I gather DMT is is a lot more soluble in PG over VG. I don't recall coming across actual figures however.

soulman said:
2. Do you think the purity of the spice is a factor?..
Click to expand...
Luckily I have some nice white heptane re-x'd crystals 😉

soulman said:
3. Power or more specifically temperature. People talk of variable voltages on their batteries. Does this equate to a variable temperature?
Click to expand...
I believe so, yes. Higher the voltage the more of the liquid is vaped. I reckon starting at maybe 3.5 and working up is a sound idea. Also I think the impedance (if it's something else someone by all means correct me) of the cartridge might have something to do with it, will have to search again and check.

soulman said:
4. Coils, see above...also i read that DMT runs away from the heat, so its necessary to get a bottom coil?....
Click to expand...
I have a bottom coil refillable and a mid placed "wick" tank. Will be trying them out in that order also as I think the bottom coil type will be much more viable.

soulman said:
I think if we can get a general consensus on these questions then we should be well on the way to a beautiful thing.
Click to expand...
All being well the coming weeks will see if this is a potential or just another fail (has been tried before as you say with mixed responses).

Peace :)
 
I am extremely interested in this method.
I, however, only have a limited amount of spice, so experimenting is something I can not afford. This being said. I would like to offer my Gratitude to those of you who can and are doing the ground work for this technique. i look forward to seeing all your results. A million Thank you's!!

Bless.
 
Nice, this is exciting,


Thanks for your input zenspice. Thats appreciated.

I think impedance is the same as resistance.....the more electrical resistance in a wire, the more heat is given off. I think these variable voltage batteries alter the temperature in this way (V=IR)

Can you offer any info on how you put spice directly onto the coil rather than just using the tank?
 
Having looked at the cartridges I have I feel it would be way too finicky to take them apart (and I would likely damage them in any ham-fisted attempt).

I personally feel the key will be maximising the mg per ml ratio by avoiding any addition of flavourings or thickeners (VG) and of course using nicotine free PG as the only dilutent. I figure I need to work out how much PG is spent during a decent couple of vapes, then aim to get a decent dose diluted per that amount (I hope to find out a way to vape at least 20 mg with maximum of four hits).

I should be cool to order some in the next 2 weeks once I get end of the month and the usual bills out of the way 😉
 
I'll be working with PEG-400. Only because I have a big bottle of it already. I'm not sure about solubility because last time I mixed some up, I didn't do a good job of measuring things out, I suspect that I could have added quite a bit more spice which probably contributed to the weak effects that I experienced as well. I'll attempt to get some hard numbers this time around=)


3. Power or more specifically temperature. People talk of variable voltages on their batteries. Does this equate to a variable temperature?
Click to expand...

There are a few factors that goes into power and temperature.. voltage is one of them. resistance of the atomizer coil is another. Given the voltage and resistance, you can figure out the current... current is what really determines how hot the coil gets.
I=V/R or (Current = Voltage / Resistance)

So if your battery is 3.7v and your coil resistance is 1.2ohms then the current consumption is 3.7/1.2 = 3.08Amps... or 11.4 watts (that's current * voltage)

So higher voltage doesn't necessarily mean higher temps if you pair it with a coil with really high resistance.

The thing that's nice about a variable wattage device that it will measure the coil resistance and adjust the voltage in order to supply the desired watts. So it takes some of the math out of it for you=) You could then set your wattage to say 10 watts. and regardless of whether your coil is 1.2ohms or 3 ohms, you'll get 10 watts of power which results in the same temperature. Theoretically anyway.. I have yet to receive my device, but that's my understanding of how it will work=)

4. Coils, see above...also i read that DMT runs away from the heat, so its necessary to get a bottom coil?....also, whilst talking about coils, i hear people saying it is best to apply the spice directly to the coil.
Click to expand...

I got one of these for direct dripping:
www.myvaporstore.com

SMOKTech RDA Rebuildable Atomizer

SMOKTech RDA Rebuildable Atomizer
www.myvaporstore.com www.myvaporstore.com
It's just an atomizer. no tank or anything fancy. So it'll simply be this plus a drip tip which allows you to easily drop some fluid directly on the coil.. I went with this because I plan on tinkering around with small amounts of fluid with different mixes and it seemed like a good way to not waste any spice in a larger tank if i'm just experimenting.. I'm also hoping it will remove the possibility of wicking issues since there's no wick involved.

I didn't know what a bottom coil clearomizer was until now. That Kanger T3 looks nice and sounds promising. I might give that a shot when I'm ready to upgrade from direct dripping=)
 
Figured I'd chime in here b4 work. I'll go back through all available posts n threads regarding this subject and try to put together a more simplified beginners guide with somewhat of a explanation of the common e-cig terms used so people can have a better understanding of how everything works. Me personally, I've had unparalleled success with a "personal vaporizer" for
"Dimensional Mind Travel" (thanks 4 the new term Soulman). Thanks to everyone who's showing interest in this method :)
 
I have no experience yet using an e-cig for DMT, but I have been using these hash oil atomizers for honey oil and shatter glass cannabis and really love them. They work far better than anything else I have used and you do not have to dilute your cannabis extract in liquid (PG, VG) or "juice" in order to use it. Just heat up some really good cannabis extract and drip it directly onto the coil. I use cannabis medicinally for pain control and these little vapor pens with this atomizer head are a really great way to be portable and have access to medicine. And I don't even need to remember where my lighter is. http://www.gentlemansvapes.com/collections/cartridges/products/hash-oil-atomizer

I wonder if this atomizer or one similar in design could be used for DMT.
 
It doesn't run away from the heat, because the tendency for liquid to flow to the dry spot is stronger than its tendency to run from the heat. So long as there is enough liquid in the wick, it'll work fine... just don't expect the taste to leave.

I prefer to drip a very thick solution of PG and jimjam directly onto the atomizer (the heater), and toke away. It dries in 2-3 hits, but that'll do the job for one person and the quality and quantity of vapor is WAY greater. This works better with the oversized pen-sytle devices that are common online for hash and e-fluid (model 3510?), and it does take a bit of getting used to; You may want to get some neutral-flavored fluid to practice with if you're not familiar with it.

Either way, once you get the knack it's an amazingly convenient and covert method to transport and consume the goods. Good luck and Happy Trails!

(Oh, and Harmalas will KILL your e-cig :oops: )
 
This is brilliant guys.....

Rollingwood....that would be awesome. Im sure, there would be plenty of people (myself included) if you could compile relevant useful information pertaining to this. From reading everyones input, i feel we are on the brink of a nexus success. We just need to control all the variables.

HiyoSilver, thanks for your input man (or woman :)). You are the second person to say you prefer an atomiser to cartomiser.
Do you mean something like this......

So as i understand it with these things, the product is exposed directly to the hot coil....is this what people are talking about when they talk of dripping product directly onto the coil? Can you get away with putting dry product on there on would one be better dissolving in carrier first.?


And also, can you elaborate on how Harmalas ruined your e-cig. How? did you drip harmala liquid into an atomiser.
I wanna conquer spice first, but changa works, so in theory mixing a MAOI in should work no?
I have some cappi alkaloid tincture i bought form flowingvisions when they were still trading. I dont think usin g this with an atomiser would be safe, on account of the alcohol content....would this be ok to use in a cartomiser though?
 
Dry spice burns and ruins the atomizer, but quite a bit will dissolve in warm PG. Cartomizers can be a pain to use because you'd have to disassemble it anyway. Plus, the atomizers in those things are generally low-temperature and low-quality, as most are meant to be disposable. Cartomizers and Atomizers basically work the same way, the main difference is that cartomisers are an atomizer embedded in a cartridge of fluid, so the whole thing can be disposed of when the fluid is dry. These are the disposable e-cig "refills" you can find in gas stations and such. There is basically no difference in use, even when dripping the solution directly on the atomizer (which can be accessed in either style), except that atomizer devices are usually of better quality and require more maintenance.

That one you linked looked pretty good, though I imagine you would get good results from any e-cig with a standard atomizer.

(Side note: I like the ones with the button, the airflow-operated ones leave you wasting some spice, as it continues to vaporize after you quit dragging, with no way to inhale that vapor without starting the heat again).
---
Harmalas didn't vaporize properly, nor did they really cooperate with being dissolved in any solution I tried. When I finally did get it to work, the alkaloids refused to vaporise... preferring to fuse straight to the atomizer and produce smoke, not vapor. I then had to replace the atomizer. Maybe with some cleverness and a few spare atomizers, you can get it to work though... Since harmalas are easier to handle and smoke than DMT, I just smoked the harmalas in a pipe, then vaped the DMT in the vaporizer.
 
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